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A very odd choice to post quite literally 10% of the quote, honestly.
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Joker the strongest Megaten MC?
- Thread starter WinsonDetamp
- Start date
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It doesn't contradict what I am saying though. They are basically saying "Yeah it's more of a stand alone game than it is a sequel, you can play it before you play the game it is based off, and you can play it after watching the anime or reading the manga". Atlus also treats the extended games are replacements, so it is redundant for them to say "Persona 5 Royal" instead of just Persona 5. Persona 4: Dancing All Night is a "sequel" to Golden yet still drops Golden from it's name. What makes Royal so controversial anyway? Sumire has no reason to be in the game, she was never a Phantom Thief and is too busy training, Akechi is most likely dead even in Royal, and Maruki is your everyday taxi driver. I don't see why we can't just say this game comes after Royal, nothing contradicts the events of Royal at all and sometimes they even reference it (see what I said about it being 6 months after)
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Feel free to make a CRT, again, as this thread is not going anywhere.
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There is nothing in that page that really cuts out Royal. It is just "they say it is a sequel to Persona 5 and since they didn't specify it was specifically Persona 5 Royal there is no connection between the two". There is nothing that contradicts the two and Atlus considers the extended versions as canon. What is the issue? Them saying Persona 5 Royal instead of just Persona 5 would be, again, redundant, and I feel should not be considered as this huge debunk that splits the games in a confusing manner.
There is no point, as you said Nanashi and Joker are treated as equals with sometimes Nanashi having the edge depending on how you interoperate things. I doubt making a CRT making Strikers connected to Royal would change anything besides Joker having the edge instead of Nanashi, which would again be based on how one interoperates things.
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I have no idea why you are trying to tell me what I’m saying is wrong, using my sentence, but you’re doing a very… bad job at it, to be frank. A very odd attempt at being dishonest, when I very clearly illustrate why Nanashi is stronger.
Stephen stopped engaging because he was more than satisfied by the amount of potential they displayed, this is after he says, verbatim “this is the first time I’ve had to use my full power. I may not be able to hold back, apologies”.
Meanwhile, it takes the entire PT’s just to survive his max, 100% punch, for Joker to target his weakspot and defeat him.
Stephen stopped engaging because he was more than satisfied by the amount of potential they displayed, this is after he says, verbatim “this is the first time I’ve had to use my full power. I may not be able to hold back, apologies”.
Meanwhile, it takes the entire PT’s just to survive his max, 100% punch, for Joker to target his weakspot and defeat him.
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Never said you were wrong but your original statement was that they are treated as equals but if anyone has the edge it would be Nanashi. If that was the point you were making there is not point in making a CRT over something so miniscule. Never tried to debunk you, I was just saying how there are arguments for both and that a CRT is useless
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Adam Kadmon & Stephen, yes.
It’s just no one scales to the full capacity of the former, but people can scale to the serious latter.
I meant make a CRT about Strikers canonicity, not who scales.
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My apologies. You mean "canonicity" as in if it is connected to P5 or P5R, right? To be honest I don't see an issue it using P5R scaling, there is nothing in the game that contradicts the events of P5 and Atlus considers extended cuts as replacements. Not only that is there any changes that would be made if the canonicity of P5S were to be agreed on?
TheKingStrategist13
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I don't see any problem's with P5R being canon to striker's, but likewise, there is no outstanding evidence it is. It can go either way in my opinion.
Also, I saw earlier some people were talking about Makoto, correct? From what I recall, he was dubbed the most remarkable guest Igor had by Igor himself, making him more remarkable than Naoya (Who fought Pandora), and Tatsuya (Who fought Serious Philemon and helped defeat Full Power Nyarlathotep). On top of that, Makoto took blows from, dodged blows from, and negated blows from True Form Nyx, for whom the CU had to evolve in order to deal with her existence. This likely means that she is more impressive than Nyarlathotep and Philemon in power but, don't quote me on that, as I know that is reaching more into speculation, even if I personally believe it. Further more, a earlier Makoto defeated Elizabeth, who should be comparable to Lavenza, who should be stronger than Caroline and Justine, whom had manhandled a Ren from just after his first fight with the Holy Grail. Of course, Ren makes significant leaps himself after this, but I feel it should be stated and kept in mind.
My apologies, I meant to type a much longer, in depth and explanatory message, but I accidentally closed my browser and the message didn't save, and I'm frankly too lazy to retype the whole thing.
Also, I would like to point out that Milly is coming off as a tad more aggressive than they have to be. I'm not trying to get on anyone's bad side, but think of this as some constructive criticism. Regardless, I could very easily be wrong about one or more of the points I mentioned, and they may be rendered Moot by another Point, in which case I would love to hear these points and, if possible, discuss them. If this thread remains dead though, then all well.
Also, I saw earlier some people were talking about Makoto, correct? From what I recall, he was dubbed the most remarkable guest Igor had by Igor himself, making him more remarkable than Naoya (Who fought Pandora), and Tatsuya (Who fought Serious Philemon and helped defeat Full Power Nyarlathotep). On top of that, Makoto took blows from, dodged blows from, and negated blows from True Form Nyx, for whom the CU had to evolve in order to deal with her existence. This likely means that she is more impressive than Nyarlathotep and Philemon in power but, don't quote me on that, as I know that is reaching more into speculation, even if I personally believe it. Further more, a earlier Makoto defeated Elizabeth, who should be comparable to Lavenza, who should be stronger than Caroline and Justine, whom had manhandled a Ren from just after his first fight with the Holy Grail. Of course, Ren makes significant leaps himself after this, but I feel it should be stated and kept in mind.
My apologies, I meant to type a much longer, in depth and explanatory message, but I accidentally closed my browser and the message didn't save, and I'm frankly too lazy to retype the whole thing.
Also, I would like to point out that Milly is coming off as a tad more aggressive than they have to be. I'm not trying to get on anyone's bad side, but think of this as some constructive criticism. Regardless, I could very easily be wrong about one or more of the points I mentioned, and they may be rendered Moot by another Point, in which case I would love to hear these points and, if possible, discuss them. If this thread remains dead though, then all well.
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To elaborate on what has been stated by Milly, there are inconsistencies with how each game depicts certain characters. Morgana accepts his identity as a cat during the events of the Third Semester Arc, while he continues to refute the fact in Strikers. Both Strikers and Royal were in development during the same period of time, and thus it is unlikely there was a coordinated effort to link the two stories together (especially when Strikers was specifically referred to a sequel to "Persona 5").
Igor complementing Makoto's remarkability doesn't necessarily imply he's stronger. It is more plausible Igor was simply expressing his surprise at the sight of the Universe Arcana, an ability that hasn't been utilized by anyone else in the series.
Nyx herself did not form the Collective Unconsciousness, so she wouldn't scale to the entirety of the structure. Philemon and Nyarlathotep have been directly stated to be the two halves of the CU, the primordial archetypes from which all others spawn, and the embodiment of humanity itself.
I believe this is already accounted for in Makoto's profile. True Endgame Ren eventually scales well above Lavenza anyway, as he was able to fight Adam Kadmon (which required a great amount of effort, granted).
TheKingStrategist13
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To address this, Morgana's refusal could be a dismissable joke from the writers. They tend to over exaggerate certain character traits in spin off's and other expanded material, for example: Akihiko's sudden Protein Obsession stemming from a slight appreciation for it. If a better example is produced that doesn't quite fit that category though, then I would be convinced enough.
Fair enough, though I do still think it's noteworthy that he is surprised by this more so than any other Protag's power. It could be seen as him simply admiring the Universe Arcana without saying he's stronger, and even though I personally believe it's to mean he is, I cannot fully prove so. As such, I must concede that it doesn't necessarily imply such.
I have been seeing some conflicting information on the wiki about this, which is why I made sure to use And/Or in my post. Even if she didn't form it, it would have evolved itself with the purpose of combating Nyx, meaning that Philemon and Nyarlathotep would likely have their power as a indirect consequence of Nyx. However, as a result, I believe that Nyx surpasses them to some extent as a result, as they were made to be as powerful as they are simply for Humanity's survival, and nothing more, under Nyx's pressure. Again though, that is more so a opinion/interpretation I cannot fully back up.
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I don't think those are comparable in the slightest. Morgana's dissociation with himself and his desire to become a human are major components of his character arc, in addition to being the main focus of his social link. Maruki's reality was created to be a world in which the deepest desires of the Phantom Thieves were actualized (i.e. Kunizaku Okumura and Wakaba Ishiki being revived, Shiho's personality being restored to how it was prior to Kamoshida's influence, etc). Morgana, of course, was transformed into a human, which displays how becoming one was of high importance to him. It's not something that could be so easily treated as comic relief.
While this is true, there's no evidence to suggest Nyx would scale to the entirety of the CU. The Persona 3 Club Book even states that humanity was able to suppress her with ease for thousands, if not millions of years.
It goes on to elaborate that the only reason Nyx was unsealed was due to humanity's collective fear of death and their weakening spirituality, and not because of any specific action on Nyx's part.
The Collective Unconsciousness isn't simply another method to combat Nyx, however. It serves as the centerpiece for the entire verse's cosmology. All human souls are spawned from and will return to it, contains the archetypes that allow for humanity to understand and recognize patterns, and is what gives birth to reality in the first place. And to reiterate my last point, Nyx causing the formation of the CU by spurring evolution doesn't mean she scales to it in its entirety.
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This is just something minor, not evidence of them being non canon. It can be a sequel to both P5 and P5R
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Refer to my response to TheKingStrategist.
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I didn't say it was comic relief so that's not relevant
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My response works as a refutation to both your points. I explained how Morgana's identity is the central focus of his character development, and thus isn't minor.
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You don't think he could have just changed his mind Milly?
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I'm unsure of what you mean. Morgana definitely wouldn't regress into his previous beliefs, considering the Phantom Thieves accepting their own tribulations is a major plot point during the Third Semester that directly leads to them confronting Maruki.
