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JJK top-tiers scaling

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Let's talk about how Cursed Energy works. Cursed Techniques are described as the tools used as the electronic, while the Cursed Energy is the electricity powering it. Similarly, Domains are constructed via Cursed Energy.

Essentially, since Cursed Energy directly powers Cursed Techniques and constructs Domain Expansions, naturally the CE should scale to the feats performed by the CT and to the creation of the DEs.

Here comes the tricky part, which I believe is the reason the top-tiers are stuck at city level: How do we prove that the characters scale to Cursed Techniques and Domain Constructions?

Since CE powers both CTs and DEs, this means that to prove a character scales to a certain CT or DE would require us to prove that character can throw or take attacks that contain the same amount of Cursed Energy, or more, than specific CT or DEs we want to scale him to. For example, if we can prove Gojo can tank an attack that contains more CE than what Jogo uses to create his own Iron Mountain, we can argue Gojo scales to the creation of Jogo's domain.

If we can prove Yuta can throw semi-casual attacks that contain more CE than what Yuki used to create her black hole, we can also argue Yuta's attack scales above the black hole. Luckily for us, we can actually do that.

Yuta is described as having the most Cursed Energy out of all the characters in the show, only being second to Sakuna. This suggests that in terms of CE reserve Yuta surpasses Yuki. This means that the totality of his CE scales above her black hole.

This would be useless unless we can prove he can strike using the totality of his CE. But luckily for us, in volume 0 we are told that after taking control of Rika, the manifestation of his power, Yuta is able to casually generate a blast that goes beyond the limits of his own CE. In other words, Yuta's blast would scale above the totality of his CE and above Yuki's black hole.

Would this scale to anyone else? Logically there is no reason for it not to scale to Sakuna. Sakuna had no issue blocking blows from an even stronger and more experienced Yuta, as well as overpowering Rika which is the manifestation of Yuta's CE. What's more, Yuta decided he has a better chance sacrificing himself and taking Gojo's body than to face Sakuna head-on with the rest. That'd make little sense unless Sakuna's durabillity scaled high enough to withstand those beyond CE blasts. Not to mention that Sakuna himself has twice as much CE as Yuta, and his attacks use enough CE to drain him.

Counterargument: Yuta was only capable of doing this one time because after that Rika departed.

Debunk: Rika was powered by Yuta, not the other way around. Her departure affects nothing. Especially when later Yuta produces a new Rika which he can now better control.

Furthermore Geto survived Yuta's blast, which would suggest the top-tiers have durabillity scaling to the power of Yuki's black hole.

This is consistent with Kenjaku surviving Yuki's black hole DESPITE the intent of the attack being to kill him AND him already being in it's center.

There is the argument that Tengen and Yuki prevented it from blowing up the Earth, but that is out-of-context. Tengen did so through barriers. Which means he put barriers around the black hole to prevent how far away it's infuence spread. Since Kenjaku was already where the center of the black hole was, that means he was inside the black hole and would not have been not protected by the barriers. Tengen had no reason to protect Kenjaku with barriers, and he himself was surprised Kenjaku survived. Similarly, there is nothing to indicate Yuki weakened the blow for Kenjaku, since this specific black hole was created that specific size to specifically kill Kenjaku. There is no reason for her to make the black hole this strong with killing intent and then weaken it, at that point she could have just created a smaller and weaker one. Thus we can argue she did something similar to Tengen, where she simply limited how far away it's influence went, not that she necessarily weakened it. Think of it as her limiting the DC, but not the AP. Just because she limited the DC does not mean it's AP was also weakened.

Thus: I believe the top-tiers like Yuta, Sakuna and Gojo should have keys scaling to Yuki's black hole, as well as things like Jogo and Dagon's Domains.

Agree:

Neutral:

Disagree:
 
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If we can prove Yuta can throw semi-casual attacks that contain more CE than what Yuki used to create her black hole, we can also argue Yuta's attack scales above the black hole. Luckily for us, we can actually do that.
...So Yuta scales way above Gojo as his overall CE is vastly higher and can use all of that in a single attack?

This completely ignores CE control and stuff. Like Sukuna, with the same amount of CE as Yuta, can cast multiple domains while Yuta casts only one and then loses all his CE.

The way a CT works is not based on the amount of CE it uses.
 
So... proposals for Large Planet level for most of the top tiers?

How is this not an outrageous outlier when compared to their usual level of feats?

gMsR8nc.png
 
"Casually generate a blast" and he made a binding vow to kill himself
That wasn't what the binding vow ended up being, since he lived. And Yuta's vow was said to only be there to allow him to use Rika's power, aka his own power. There is 0 reason a more experienced Yuta with better power control can't do the same, with or without a binding vow.
 
That wasn't what the binding vow ended up being, since he lived.
Yeah because Rika decided she didn't want her end of the bargain, and broke the binding vow. He still got the results.
And Yuta's vow was said to only be there to allow him to use Rika's power, aka his own power.
Where?
There is 0 reason a more experienced Yuta with better power control can't do the same, with or without a binding vow.
Why would he be able to replicate a death binding vow
 
even aside from that
in what world does it make any sense for someone's "casual" power output to surpass their entire store of energy???????
Casual, as him being able to instantly produce that attack. Which he did, yes.
 
Yeah because Rika decided she didn't want her end of the bargain, and broke the binding vow. He still got the results.
Source: Trust me bro
Right here. The binding vow only allowed him to use Rika's power, aka his own power.
Why would he be able to replicate a death binding vow
Because a young Yuta only ever needed a binding vow because he couldnt control Rika and she did whatever she wanted. Why'd an adult Yuta shown to have control over Rika need a binding vow to use her power like his younger self did?
 
So... proposals for Large Planet level for most of the top tiers?

How is this not an outrageous outlier when compared to their usual level of feats?

gMsR8nc.png
Given how the wiki has already accepted Yuki generated a large planetary black hole and doesn't consider that to be an outlier I think it's fine to scale some characters to it if the evidence is convincing.
 
Source: Trust me bro
Notice how Geto notes a spike in his energy
Right here. The binding vow only allowed him to use Rika's power, aka his own power.
"In exchange for her powers" is quite vague and doesn't contradict Geto's statement that he was drawing out his CE beyond its limits.
Because a young Yuta only ever needed a binding vow because he couldnt control Rika and she did whatever she wanted. Why'd an adult Yuta shown to have control over Rika need a binding vow to use her power like his younger self did?
See above, the binding vow wasn't just to control her better
 
Given how the wiki has already accepted Yuki generated a large planetary black hole and doesn't consider that to be an outlier I think it's fine to scale some characters to it if the evidence is convincing.
It's regarded as an exceptional move for her that doesn't scale in any way to her ordinary statistics.

So someone being scaled as being superior to her would need specific evidence that they're scaled as being specifically superior to her black hole and not just herself.
 
...So Yuta scales way above Gojo as his overall CE is vastly higher and can use all of that in a single attack?

This completely ignores CE control and stuff. Like Sukuna, with the same amount of CE as Yuta, can cast multiple domains while Yuta casts only one and then loses all his CE.

The way a CT works is not based on the amount of CE it uses.
In terms of raw AP Yuta can scale above Gojo, yes. Doesn't mean Gojo isn't close to him off Sakuna.

Sakuna has more than x2 Yuta's CE. As for control, how does control change the fact Yuki puts in enough energy to create a black hole, and how does Yuta fumble a greater amount of energy into being nowhere near this level?
 
Notice how Geto notes a spike in his energy
A spike does not contradict anything I said. The power of Yuta's attacks increased specifically because he couldn't control Rika and his CE prior.
"In exchange for her powers" is quite vague and doesn't contradict Geto's statement that he was drawing out his CE beyond its limits.
You can't interpret it as anything other than him using her power without making far-fetched assumption found nowhere in the context of the chapter.
See above, the binding vow wasn't just to control her better
Verbatim the binding vow was for her power.

And regardless Geto survived it.
 
A spike does not contradict anything I said. The power of Yuta's attacks increased specifically because he couldn't control Rika and his CE prior.
It does because he literally said it went beyond his limits. The energy itself increased, not the control
You can't interpret it as anything other than him using her power without making far-fetched assumption found nowhere in the context of the chapter.
Dude, this is such a nothing burger response
Verbatim the binding vow was for her power.
To use more of it
 
So someone being scaled as being superior to her would need specific evidence that they're scaled as being specifically superior to her black hole and not just herself.
Yes, I am arguing Yuta's blast scales above the BH itself.
 
It does because he literally said it went beyond his limits. The energy itself increased, not the control

To use more of it
Yes, the binding vow was for him to use more of her power. Thus what he did was something he has the capacity to do himself ( Rika is his own CE ). The attack going beyond the limits of CE would just means that's a special property of his power.
 
Not really because it's intended to be gravity vs anti-gravity, basically hax vs hax/AP
Since hax in JJK work based off CE that'd still require him to have planetary CE reserves to counter the BH. So it becomes a matter of whether or not he's shown the abillity to use a good portion of his CE and focus it all on a single attack. I personally can't recall JJK that welll, so I'll just hope someone else does lol.
 
Since hax in JJK work based off CE that'd still require him to have planetary CE reserves to counter the BH. So it becomes a matter of whether or not he's shown the abillity to use a good portion of his CE and focus it all on a single attack. I personally can't recall JJK that welll, so I'll just hope someone else does lol.

that's quite the assumption, don't ya think
 
funny as to how u gotta go through this convoluted way to argue top tiers scale above Yuki Black Hole.

Like bro u just need those certain several statements from Gege that are ACTUALLY straightforward and blatant 😭 too bad i ain't revealing it.
Hint: It's all about Gojo in some shape of form
 
Let's talk about how Cursed Energy works. Cursed Techniques are described as the tools used as the electronic, while the Cursed Energy is the electricity powering it. Similarly, Domains are constructed via Cursed Energy.

Essentially, since Cursed Energy directly powers Cursed Techniques and constructs Domain Expansions, naturally the CE should scale to the feats performed by the CT and to the creation of the DEs.

Here comes the tricky part, which I believe is the reason the top-tiers are stuck at city level: How do we prove that the characters scale to Cursed Techniques and Domain Constructions?

Since CE powers both CTs and DEs, this means that to prove a character scales to a certain CT or DE would require us to prove that character can throw or take attacks that contain the same amount of Cursed Energy, or more, than specific CT or DEs we want to scale him to. For example, if we can prove Gojo can tank an attack that contains more CE than what Jogo uses to create his own Iron Mountain, we can argue Gojo scales to the creation of Jogo's domain.

If we can prove Yuta can throw semi-casual attacks that contain more CE than what Yuki used to create her black hole, we can also argue Yuta's attack scales above the black hole. Luckily for us, we can actually do that.

Yuta is described as having the most Cursed Energy out of all the characters in the show, only being second to Sakuna. This suggests that in terms of CE reserve Yuta surpasses Yuki. This means that the totality of his CE scales above her black hole.

This would be useless unless we can prove he can strike using the totality of his CE. But luckily for us, in volume 0 we are told that after taking control of Rika, the manifestation of his power, Yuta is able to casually generate a blast that goes beyond the limits of his own CE. In other words, Yuta's blast would scale above the totality of his CE and above Yuki's black hole.

Would this scale to anyone else? Logically there is no reason for it not to scale to Sakuna. Sakuna had no issue blocking blows from an even stronger and more experienced Yuta, as well as overpowering Rika which is the manifestation of Yuta's CE. What's more, Yuta decided he has a better chance sacrificing himself and taking Gojo's body than to face Sakuna head-on with the rest. That'd make little sense unless Sakuna's durabillity scaled high enough to withstand those beyond CE blasts. Not to mention that Sakuna himself has twice as much CE as Yuta, and his attacks use enough CE to drain him.

Counterargument: Yuta was only capable of doing this one time because after that Rika departed.

Debunk: Rika was powered by Yuta, not the other way around. Her departure affects nothing. Especially when later Yuta produces a new Rika which he can now better control.

Furthermore Geto survived Yuta's blast, which would suggest the top-tiers have durabillity scaling to the power of Yuki's black hole.

This is consistent with Kenjaku surviving Yuki's black hole DESPITE the intent of the attack being to kill him AND him already being in it's center.

There is the argument that Tengen and Yuki prevented it from blowing up the Earth, but that is out-of-context. Tengen did so through barriers. Which means he put barriers around the black hole to prevent how far away it's infuence spread. Since Kenjaku was already where the center of the black hole was, that means he was inside the black hole and would not have been not protected by the barriers. Tengen had no reason to protect Kenjaku with barriers, and he himself was surprised Kenjaku survived. Similarly, there is nothing to indicate Yuki weakened the blow for Kenjaku, since this specific black hole was created that specific size to specifically kill Kenjaku. There is no reason for her to make the black hole this strong with killing intent and then weaken it, at that point she could have just created a smaller and weaker one. Thus we can argue she did something similar to Tengen, where she simply limited how far away it's influence went, not that she necessarily weakened it. Think of it as her limiting the DC, but not the AP. Just because she limited the DC does not mean it's AP was also weakened.

Thus: I believe the top-tiers like Yuta, Sakuna and Gojo should have keys scaling to Yuki's black hole, as well as things like Jogo and Dagon's Domains.

Agree:

Neutral:

Disagree:
this feels like some CIA fuckery atp

so lets discuss some of the points

1) that would be a case of UES which JJK doesnt fall into atm, the current categorization for Curse Energy that I know is around Limited Energy System. I dont think CE is for LES and more of a NPES (I will get to that soon) but rn its a LES and it doesnt fit at all in UES due to how the only character who has that is Ryu Ishigori which disproves the idea of scaling physicals or CE to domains n such

2) you must be generous for JJK scaling because I dont see any city level stuff in physicals (Most characters get placed into Small Town to Large Town atm.

3) Im gonna get into domain scaling for a bit. So the general idea is ostracized due to the nature of the ability being limited and varied in design (some make islands, some make only a shrine, etc) but also that generally its a once per day kind of move. Additionally if we were to use Domains for AP or environmental destruction, the only ones we would calc would be Dagons, Jogos, Yujis and maybe Yuta's which would likely just be around town level or at most town to potentially small city due to how big Yuji's city is which wouldnt even be given to the characters physicals as it would at most scale to the ap of the domain (which is very hard to get due to the nature of domains and.

4) the whole curse energy thing would akin to a source rather than a simple number to see whos stronger. Efficiency and control of it matters which is one reason as to why both Gojo and Sukuna are more powerful as sure Yuta may have more CE than Gojo Iirc and Sukuna has only twice the amount but its the efficiency that both possess that make them greater than Yuta and additionally I think the Rika in JJK is different from Rika in JJk0 as the one in JJK is sort of a mere husk of the one in JJK0 due to her departing at the end. also the blast is done through a vow giving more power and even then we dont have UES to support giving Yuta physicals to his blast

5) its the same case w the yuki blackhole thing as Yuki has to force more of her CT to the point to where it harms her and even kills her to make the black hole and Im pretty sure it has been shut down to where it just gives Kenjaku a resistance to black holes


Here is the thread trying to tackle the kenjaku resisting against black hole feat

also for Geto "Surviving" bro was at 1 hp its the same case as Meruem and the rose bomb and how he doesnt get a durability feat from it due to him dying on the spot
 
Yuta is described as having the most Cursed Energy out of all the characters in the show, only being second to Sakuna. This suggests that in terms of CE reserve Yuta surpasses Yuki. This means that the totality of his CE scales above her black hole.
Decent argument if not for the fact canonically the power of an attack is not just dependent on the amount of cursed energy behind it, but also the efficiency of the one using the cursed technique. To pick the extreme Gojo is stated to use infinitesimally little cursed energy whenever he's activating one of his techniques. And Sukuna is noted to be able to use domain expansion as much as he wants, even when his total CE reserve is on the level off Yuta's (implying Yuta couldn't do the same). And Yuta is noted as being quite poor when it comes to controlling his CE. So it's possible that Yuki's black hole is infused with less CE than Yuta's total reserve, while still outputting more energy (measured in joules) than any attack Yuta could perform.
 
I mean, Kenny did counter the gravity of the black hole with his own so thats consistent? Ignore that he uses the reverse witch is a 2x buff to hit Choso and Yuki with major but no fatal damage starting a curcular scaling. Or that by this same logic, Jackpot Hakari is top 1 with his Infinite CE.
 
I mean, Kenny did counter the gravity of the black hole with his own so thats consistent? Ignore that he uses the reverse witch is a 2x buff to hit Choso and Yuki with major but no fatal damage starting a curcular scaling. Or that by this same logic, Jackpot Hakari is top 1 with his Infinite CE.
🗣️ WAKARI TOP 1

🗣️HE DIDNT FIGHT SUKUNA BECAUSE IT WOULDVE ENDED IN 1 CH
 
Man this attempt at an upgrade is really bad. At best the whole CE argument means is the Limits Surpassed Cursed Energy Blast is Large Planet, there is no reason why Yuta's physicals would scale anywhere close to something that's surpassing his own limits of cursed energy. Even that's generous considering the whole black hole thing is caused by chain reaction of Yuki adding enough virtual mass that she collapses into a black hole, she isn't directly creating the black hole with her CE.
 
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