Jiren Upgrade?

[PowerScalingIsFun7]

Should Jiren be bumped up to solid 2-C? If we take Vegeta at his word when he said that he had "never encountered an energy as strong and heavy as this", then that would place Jiren above Infinite Zamasu which would make him 2-C. The Supreme Kai commented earlier when he was fighting Goku that Jiren's energy was the strongest he had ever felt, and he was also there when Infinite Zamasu was created, but since the Supreme Kai is a lot weaker then 2-C characters we couldn't be sure. Now that Vegeta is also backing up that statement and claiming that Jiren is the strongest guy he's ever encountered, that would make Jiren, and logically at least the Angels as well, all 2-C.

[[1]] (2:22 Vegeta says his energy is the strongest)

Thoughts?

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

The thing is that Zamasu never became a full 2-C. That is only a hypothetical of what he could have become. The only energy Vegeta felt was from Low 2-C Infinite Zamasu which makes Jiren Low 2-C.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

^Basically this

 

[PowerScalingIsFun7]

But Zamasu had completely consumed the entire timeline and was spreading throughout all the universes. Zeno had to erase the entire timeline to stop him and Zamasu was already affecting other timelines, like how Beerus and Whis noted that his power was having an effect in their timeline from the future. Being able to destroy multiple timelines/continuums makes you solid 2-C and Zamasu was clearly affecting more than one timeline. I think it's at least notable that Jiren is pretty much confirmed stronger than a guy who was about to destroy all of time and space in all universes.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Wasn't it the same for Low 2-C Zamasu though? If I'm not wrong, Zamasu was in the process of taking over the entire universe but wasn't quite done yet.

 

[PowerScalingIsFun7]

Also this is completely off topic but I'd just like to point out you were one of the fence sitters on the Doki Doki best grill thread. Right now it's a tie between Natsuki and Sayori and it would be really nice if you could break the tie.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Jiren is only Low 2-C because he's more powerful than Infinite Zamasu. Zamasu never became 2-C.

 

[Akreious]

Infinite Zamasu was in the process of taking over, not fully yet. I agree with staying at Low 2-C since Vegeta would've never sensed a full timeline IZ. HOWEVER, not sure if this is grounds for an upgrade, but if Jiren's full power is able to stomp initial appearance UIO Goku (like if a character says that current UIO Goku is able to 1-shot original UIO Goku) then I'm fairly sure that's grounds for straight up 2-C.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I dont think thats grounds for 2-C yet. The thing is that the gap between Low 2-C and 2-C is pretty massive. That at best would be like "At least Low 2-C"

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Akreious He wouldn't be 2-C if that happens, to be 2-C, you have to be able destroy or create 2 or more universe sized space-time continuum, no amount of multipliers or causally one shotting a Low 2-C character will put you there, either you can do it or you can't basically.

But yea this thread has been answered above.

 

[PowerScalingIsFun7]

Akreious actually brings up an interesting point. The upgrade from low 2-C to 2-C doesn't require feats, simply powerscaling. If it can be conclusively proven that Jiren is beyond a doubt more than twice as strong as UIO Goku, then that would logically make him capable of destroying multiple continuums, which would make him 2-C. Another interesting hypothetical would be if Goku uses Kaio-Ken while UIO, that should also bring him up to 2-C since Kaio-Ken is a direct multiplier of power. Technically if we get ridiculous powerscaling could bring DBS characters all the way up to 2-B since 2-B is being capable of destroying more than 1,000 continuums. Technically if Goku used Kaio-Ken x1,000 on top of UIO he would be 2-B.

 

[The_Everlasting]

The gap from Low 2-C to 2-C is far, far higher than just 2x.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@PowerScaling I just answered that, multipliers don't matter here, no amount will put him above Low 2-C, he has to destroy at least 2 universes and it's space-time to be 2-C.

Goku can use kaioken x10000 in ultra instinct, and still wouldn't be upgraded.

 

[PowerScalingIsFun7]

@Celestial Pegasus


For curiosity's sake, is there a thread that has described what the actual power difference between low 2-C and 2-C is? Is it a specific increase or does it require feats?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Agreed. Heck I know characters who's vastly superior to MUCH more number of Low 2-C's in DBS and they aren't 2-C. Just at a high end of Low 2-C.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@PowerScaling We have been over it multiple times, in like 4 different threads, but can't remember where to find them, but the conclusion was added to our Tiering System:

"Multi-Universe level: Characters who can destroy and/or create up to 1000 universal space-time continuums. The power difference between Low 2-C and 2-C characters is not possible to exactly quantify, given that the latter category has to breach the distance between universes along a 5-dimensional axis."

So either you can do it or you can't as i have been saying.

 

[PowerScalingIsFun7]

@Celestial Pegasus

So essentially it requires feats.

Also I thought you didn't end up reaching 5th dimensional power until 2-A?

I know High 2-B is infinite 4th dimensional power, similar to High 3-A, and I thought 2-A was 5th dimensional power, like low 2-C being the start of 4th dimensional power?

 

[Akreious]

Fair points. But come on, with the writers of DBS, do you really think they wouldn't have Jiren or Goku perform some insane feat that upon closer inspection would qualify for 2-C? It's possible, it's very possible. Anyways back to the topic, I'm fairly sure majority already addressed the question and agreed upon an answer. Anything else to discuss about the question?

 

[PowerScalingIsFun7]

@Akreious

Yeah basically Jiren stays low 2-C for now. Unless Goku or Jiren are specifically shown destroying multiple universes the upgrade doesn't happen. Maybe Toriyama will get crazy eventually but I don't see that happening right now.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

@Celestial Pegasus

So essentially it requires feats.

Also I thought you didn't end up reaching 5th dimensional power until 2-A?

I know High 2-B is infinite 4th dimensional power, similar to High 3-A, and I thought 2-A was 5th dimensional power, like low 2-C being the start of 4th dimensional power?

No. 2-A is infinite 4D potency, High 2-A is when you reach 5D.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I like how this thread was concluded on the first comment but wasn't closed and it's on the wrong board.

I'll close it.