James Vega Speed Downgrade.

[XING06]

The calc used to find Vega's speed came from the animated movie Paragon Lost. The math is good; however, I don't think we should use this calc as Paragon Lost is reputed among fans to have many many many continuity errors that make it seem almost non canon. For example, the biotics were exaggerated (a single biotic was able to create three warps with one hand). Also, the biotics apparently need power packs or else they are helpless. In addition, a stasis has the same effect as cryo, which are cannonically and gameplaywise stated to be two different things. Furthermore, they messed with the weapons extremely badly. For instance a Scimitar is for some reason now fully automatic. Guns are useless against Collectors when they canonically (I'm having trouble getting a clear yes or no on this one, if someone else knows better please reply) they do work at least a little. The Collectors apparently have glowy shields and laser cannons which never show up in canon. Also, the Collectors canonical SOP is to never leave a trace behind; they went comepletely against their procedure to trash up the colony.

Worse the timeline gets messed up. Vega gets his N7 commendation directly after Fehl Prime, as well as starting his N7 training and getting a promotion to LT Comander, which directly contradicts what we see in ME3. In addition, the Alliance apparently already had solid data on Reapers, which is again canonically impossible, as they were still almost totally in the dark in ME3 about them.

Basically the movie was full of continuity errors and breaks of ability from the video games, so I don't think the calc should stand.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Continuity errors doesn't automatically make something non-canon.

 

[XING06]

True but the main point is that it breaks from the abilities shown in the actual games, lore, and cutscenes.

 

[Antvasima]

So, do you know of any other feats to scale from, or should the speed statistic be adjusted to "Unknown"? Also, are any other characters scaled from him?

 

[XING06]

The entire Mass Effect cast speed is scaled from him otherwise none of the others have any speed feat calcs. I would believe maybe with their special ability Adrenaline Rush they could maybe have Massively Hypersonic reactions (this is based off gameplay though so take it with some scepticism), but with their actual speed during cutscenes they have trouble avoiding barages of gunfire requiring finding cover so supersonic to hypersonic maybe? I'll try to dig some examples up.

 

[XING06]

For now it should just be unkown till someone can do a calc from an actual game cutscene. Or possibly Massively Hypersonic reactions.

 

[The_Everlasting]

True but the main point is that it breaks from the abilities shown in the actual games, lore, and cutscenes.

Again, that doesn't make it non-canon or invalidates this feat.

 

[XING06]

I didn't say it was non-canon or that the calc was bad; I'm saying this seems to be an outlier from what we generally see in the cutscenes of the games.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we generally scale from the higher feats, so if it is canon, I think that the calculation results should probably stay.

 

[XING06]

But like I said this single feat is inconsistent with most of their other feats. The cutscenes show a heavy usage of cover and difficulty dodging massive barrages of gunfire.

However, after more research, I do believe this feat is possible by James Vega if he was using the Adrenaline Rush ability which is available to Alliance soldiers as that makes far more sense (MHS reaction speed possible - can see high hypersonic bullets moving slowly at you).

I think it should be revised to Unkown combat/movement speed with MHS reactions due to Adrenaline Rush.

IMPORTANT:

Actually in Shepards profile it already says Adrenaline Rush gives them MHS. This seems much closer to canon as Adrenaline Rush gives them a massive boost in reactions but normally they aren't anywhere near that fast. Just revise combat speed/movement speed to unkown and retain MHS reactions.

 

[Lina_Shields]

If Paragon Lost is considered non-canon to the ME verse, we should not use any calculations from it, as feats from non-canon series do not count towards the main verse.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Lina

Nothing says it's non-canon, XING is just saying it is because it has a lot of contradictions.

I'd really prefer if someone contacted ChaosTheory for this. He seems to know a lot about ME.

 

[Lina_Shields]

If it has a lot of contradictions in comparison to the ME games, then those contradictions should be looked at closer.

And again, I would prefer to not bother ChaosTheory with this stuff considering that he has no interest in getting involved with the stuff here on VSB.

 

[The_Everlasting]

It's incredibly easy to just ask him "Hey should you really use feats from this?" And not specifically link to this thread.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Why don't you ask him then?

 

[The_Everlasting]

Because I have no NF account.

 

[XING06]

Also the books are part of the canon universe as well and they demonstrate significant usage of cover. There is a lot more canon support for non MHS speeds for the Mass Effect cast (even in gameplay cover is fairly important).

Again however, it is possible they have MHS reactions as there is a canonical reason for MHS reactions in comparison to what we have currently as the cast's speed (Adrenaline Rush + whatever combat mechanism is in ME3 [I'm not very familiar with that one]).

 

[The_Everlasting]

How does cover support non-MHS Mass Effect?

 

[XING06]

In the cutscenes/novel they use cover because they can't dodge sustained gunfire, which means their best showings for speed will be reactions.

Like I said they probably do have MHS reactions but I don't think the same about their combat speed. And no way is their travel speed that high (Shepard's profile).

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@XING

Combat Speed and Reactions are basically the same thing.

I agree with Ever. The feats are all there and calced.

 

[XING06]

Combat Speed

The speed at which a character can fight.

Reaction Speed
Reaction speed is the speed at which a character can react to an event or action. This usually only grants a short movement upon reaction, whereas several movements at the same speed switch it to combat speed.

Again the feat I think is good but it seems to me like a reaction feat compared to a travel/combat feat. He takes one step to dodge the bullet - single action so its a reaction.

And we can debate combat speed but there is no way they have MHS travel speed.

 

[XING06]

Bump.

Most of the times they are the same. The calc they use is done well and it really does show Vega at MHS speed all categories.

But that's the problem we never see another instance of that sort of speed it seems to me like a bit of an outlier.

Biotic Charge and Adrenaline Rush make you fast but that's Attack/Movment and Reaction Speed. Their actual combat speed is a bit of an unkown but it definitely isn't MHS there is never any instance where a character has been shown to consistently weave through gunfire nor any calcs for where they have a continuous combat/dodge with a weapon that can put out rounds at that sort of speed. There's a reason they have to rely on cover in both the books and gameplay (well depending on your class), it's because they literally can't fight at that sort of speed. Adrenaline Rush probably MHS reactions and Biotic charge maybe for attack (I doubt it but based on how the ability actually works mabye) but there no evidence showing that they have that high of a combat speed other than the Vega calc, which comes from a piece of work highly inconsistent with canon and seems like an outlier.