Issues with how Elder Scrolls gets it's H1-B and H1-A ratings

[Ezaru]

H1-B

So, from what I can gather, the Daedric Princes get their H1-B rating from this statement:

I speak of the planes of Oblivion. The sea of limitless dimensions contains an endless series of islands.

https://www.imperial-library.info/content/rulantarils-notes

To me this reads as

" The sea of dimensions that are limitless, contains an infinite amount of them " not " The sea with infinite dimensions (spacial) contains an endless series of dimensions that each have infinite dimensions (spacial) "

Oblivion is VERY often described as "limitless"

To understand this you need to understand that in Elder Scrolls, Mundus is "limited" it is the place that is bound by space, time, etc, but Oblivion is "limitless"

This can be seen in a few quotes:

Spoiler: Quotes

"…dreams. There is no abyss so deep as the well of terror that lies within each of us. I have plumbed its depths. I have seen the unthinkable. I am unafraid. Even death’s boundaries do not confine me. I am the lord of limitless space, and the master of place and time. Through the doors…"

Arkved's Notes — The Imperial Library

Proof that stealing the Orb of Vaernima can have unpleasant consequences

www.imperial-library.info

Speaking of the realm of Vaermina

"The Infinite Panopticon appears as an endless labyrinth of rooms and passages inside a limitless pocket dimension. The entrance, according to legend, never manifests in the same location twice, making it almost impossible to find. Nothing within this extradimensional space conforms to reality as we know it, and the interior changes and alters seemingly at…"

Working in the Infinite Panopticon — The Imperial Library

The Infinite Panopticon appears as an endless labyrinth of rooms and passages inside a limitless pocket dimension. The entrance, according to legend, never

www.imperial-library.info

Speaking of the realm of Apocrypha

formed vast and nearly limitless domains around an initial seed. As has been observed by many a mystic scholar, the realms are the Princes.

Loremaster’s Archive: Infinite Archive — The Imperial Library

Master Malkhest shares his knowledge of Apocrypha’s Infinite Archive

www.imperial-library.info

"By the power of the Daedric Princes, grant me wisdom beyond reckoning. By the breadth and depth of limitless Oblivion, grant me skill beyond imagining. By the bloody mace of Molag Bal, grant me power beyond estimation…."

Ritual of Daedric Fortitude — The Imperial Library

An invocation for a Daedric ritual

www.imperial-library.info

Speaking of the Realms in General

The realms are very often spoken about as being "limitless" This leads me to think that that is what they mean in the quote

However, there is other evidence for infinite dimensions, even in just Tamriel

Spoiler: Quotes

"Augur of the Obscure: "Did I? Does an oblate cogni-form have infinite angles? Please don't hurt yourself. The answer is yes,It was great. The sights, the smells, the incessant jangle of all your gear on my face. Dream come true, mate!""

Online:Augur of the Obscure - The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages (UESP)

en.m.uesp.net

There is also this statement:

their virtue. But what profits a man or mer to gaze deep into a single future? The aims of mortals are narrow, far too narrow! To move forward is to ignore infinite angles in favor of one.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Truth_in_Sequence:_Volume_8

And in Elder Scrolls, more angles = More dimensional

Spoiler: Quotes

"You think that, because you perceive a superficial resemblance between the outward appearance of the Nightmare Courser and the Hell Hound, that they must share a 'relationship.' Ever the mortal mind defends itself against the reality of what it cannot comprehend by the pathetic imposition of familiar patterns on entities of inconvenient hyperagonal."

Lore:Lyranth the Foolkiller Answers Your Questions - The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages (UESP)

en.m.uesp.net

The issue is thatin reality, to get infinite angles you only need two dimensions of time, or whatever else

So it's hard to scale based on something being "hyperagonal" or "having infinite angles"

H1-A

I also have an issue with the H1-A ratings

For example, the profile for Anu says:

the infinite layers of wheels within wheels above it, all of which simply lead back to "the eye of Anui-El

No link is working, but this is literally not canon, it's like, a forum post from Michael Kirkbride, which is secondary canon at best

Aparently there are some very well researched TES scalers on here given how detailed the profiles are so I was hoping someone could explain

I don't disagree with H1-B Oblivion as a concept, in fact I think they are outer, but I have an issue with how you get there

Misc

I also have an issue with this:

"Dibella, much like the majority of the Eight Divines, was among the Et'Ada who made their domains and homes within Aetherius,[20] the ocean of pure magic that encompasses[21] and exists in a "more real" state compared to the Mundus and the infinitely-dimensioned void of Oblivion"

Yes, the Monomyth says that the Aubris Trancends Oblivion, but, like, does it?

Books in TES are NOT always true, why would the Et'Ada that sacrificed part of their power in Lorkhan's creation, be INFINTELY stronger than the ones who didn't?

Yes, the Aedra are able to keep the Daedra out of Tamriel, but thats because Tameriel is their home turf

I will admit it's inconsistent though, as there have been times that they have shown to be superior

I thought to have "reality > fiction" trancendence you needed no anti-feats? I understand these may be older profiles

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Oblivion should be 1-A, if anything, considering that dimensionality in general is restricted to Mundus and doesn't exist beyond it. I agree that the "Limitless dimensions" statement isn't worth very much.

We generally accept Kirkbride's statements as canon (Save the most egregious ones, that is. Shit like "Talos was an Orc"). Goes for this one in particular, since there being wheels beyond Aetherius is something that's been alluded to in the games as of recently.

Technically the Daedric Princes largely aren't part of the Et'Ada that would be rated at the level of Aetherius, since based on most accounts, they only gained power by establishing themselves within Oblivion to begin with. So, yeah.

 

[Ezaru]

Oblivion should be 1-A, if anything, considering that dimensionality in general is restricted to Mundus and doesn't exist beyond it. I agree that the "Limitless dimensions" statement isn't worth very much.

We generally accept Kirkbride's statements as canon (Save the most egregious ones, that is. Shit like "Talos was an Orc"). Goes for this one in particular, since there being wheels beyond Aetherius is something that's been alluded to in the games as of recently.

Technically the Daedric Princes largely aren't part of the Et'Ada that would be rated at the level of Aetherius, since based on most accounts, they only gained power by establishing themselves within Oblivion to begin with. So, yeah.

I agree I think it's outer

Ok that's fair, Kirkbrides lore is dope, is there a specific reason/line drawn tho?

Hmm interesting, Yeah I may misunderstand something because I am not sure where Aetherius "comes from" per se

Like where were they before Mundus? There was already a distinction between Aetherius and Oblivion?

I thought it started in Oblivion and then the plane(t)s made up Aetherius or something it never made sense to me that one would trancend the other

Thanks so much for responding I know you are busy, especially since I figured the answer might be "they still get to above H1-A"