isshiki iron rod speed

[4candies]

Hi, I'm here to ask about the speed of the isshiki iron rod.

Can the case of Naruto dodging isshiki's staff in the anime be calculated by using Dodging Projectiles? And can the projectile (isshiki stick) use the speed of light? Considering that the isshiki stick couldn't even be followed by Sasuke's sharingan because it was too fast, even though Sasuke's sharingan could have followed Naruto's movements to avoid Madara's light Fang.

That's all, please apologize if the language is not good or not right.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I believe that doesn't work.

It's the equivalent to me saying "Since several attacks in Danny Phantom managed to tag and blitz characters who can dodge Ghost Rays which are considered lightspeed. We should use that as a default speed for those attacks and try to calculate feats." This would result in multiple calculations using this logic which can be repeated over and over until a verse has countless FTL/Massively FTL feats all based on the single principal "They are faster than a lightspeed attack so let's use that as a default." It's just not proper to use that logic in my opinion to use for calcs.

However I'm not a calc member nor do I dabble in calcs so these are just my thoughts. It's best to wait for the professionals to comment.

 

[4candies]

Saya percaya itu tidak berhasil.

Ini setara dengan saya mengatakan "Karena beberapa serangan di Danny Phantom berhasil menandai dan menyerang karakter yang dapat menghindari Sinar Hantu yang dianggap sebagai kecepatan cahaya. Kita harus menggunakannya sebagai kecepatan default untuk serangan itu dan mencoba menghitung prestasi." Ini akan menghasilkan beberapa perhitungan menggunakan logika ini yang dapat diulang berulang-ulang sampai sebuah ayat memiliki FTL/Massively FTL yang tak terhitung jumlahnya, semuanya berdasarkan prinsip tunggal "Mereka lebih cepat daripada serangan kecepatan ringan jadi mari kita gunakan itu sebagai default." Hanya saja tidak tepat menggunakan logika itu menurut saya untuk digunakan untuk calcs.

Namun saya bukan anggota calc juga tidak mencoba-coba calc jadi ini hanya pemikiran saya. Yang terbaik adalah menunggu para profesional berkomentar.

Alright thanks, I'll be waiting for the others

 

[Mr_Sugabz]

I believe that doesn't work.

"Since several attacks in Danny Phantom managed to tag and blitz characters who can dodge Ghost Rays which are considered lightspeed. We should use that as a default speed for those attacks and try to calculate feats." This would result in multiple calculations using this logic which can be repeated over and over until a verse has countless FTL/Massively FTL feats all based on the single principal "They are faster than a lightspeed attack so let's use that as a default."

Nice analogy and it seems to make sense too. But is it really not applicable?

 

[ssgengar]

This would result in multiple calculations using this logic which can be repeated over and over until a verse has countless FTL/Massively FTL feats all based on the single principal "They are faster than a lightspeed attack so let's use that as a default." It's just not proper to use that logic in my opinion to use for calcs.

However I'm not a calc member nor do I dabble in calcs so these are just my thoughts. It's best to wait for the professionals to comment.

i get what you’re saying until this part, like if we know already that sasuke has FTL reactions and can barely perceive the rods, not only can we not use 2.11c we can’t even use light speed as a lowball? I understand your reasoning it just seems strange considering we know for a fact that the rods are moving FTL

 

[ssgengar]

Plus we have proof of naruto and sasuke being superior to their teen selves, afaik there are 0 contradictions to this feat specifically

 

[Aernasilver]

Unless the rods have a stated speed, this would be calc stacking.

 

[ssgengar]

Unless the rods have a stated speed, this would be calc stacking.

I get that, but like let’s just say calc stacking aside what is the actual logic of literally knowing something is faster than light, and not being able to lowball and use it as light speed

 

[LordGriffin1000]

i get what you’re saying until this part, like if we know already that sasuke has FTL reactions and can barely perceive the rods, not only can we not use 2.11c we can’t even use light speed as a lowball? I understand your reasoning it just seems strange considering we know for a fact that the rods are moving FTL

I'm not saying it's wrong, just that it's not practical. At least in my opinion, it can basically be abused over and over to get many calcs.

 

[ssgengar]

I'm not saying it's wrong, just that it's not practical. At least in my opinion, it can basically be abused over and over to get many calcs.

Yeah I feel you

 

[Testarossa002]

Unless the rods have a stated speed, this would be calc stacking.

I'm pretty sure something like this was done for Kaido's thunder bagua

 

[ssgengar]

I'm pretty sure something like this was done for Kaido's thunder bagua

Good point, plus the comments mention a fairy tail thread upgrading through the same exact method

 

[Testarossa002]

Good point, plus the comments mention a fairy tail thread upgrading through the same exact method

It feels wrong going by this sites standard and like Griffin said, might get exploited and abused
But since there's an accepted calc that uses a similar premise as the OP, why not have a go at it?

 

[KingTempest]

I'm pretty sure something like this was done for Kaido's thunder bagua

Difference is that Kaidou's Thunder Bagua blitzed someone with a canon reaction speed of FTL, calling light too slow.

It feels wrong going by this sites standard and like Griffin said, might get exploited and abused
But since there's an accepted calc that uses a similar premise as the OP, why not have a go at it?

It's not allowed

Calc Stacking

Calc stacking refers to the practice of using results from one calculation in order to calculate other feats. Usually calc stacking is believed to be flawed, so that calculations that use it should be disregarded almost always. Usually people try to use it for calculating characters speed, but...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hiding Calculations​

Hiding calculations is the practice of trying to avoid calculating a feat in order to be able to use the result in another calculation. In other words it is the practice of trying to fool people into not noticing that calc stacking is being used.

This usually occurs if a feat is quantified per a rule of thumb instead of precisely calculated. A typical example would be a character dodging a bullet from a short distance being ranked as "Supersonic" and then using that ranking to calculate the speed of another character, whose speed one can compare to the former in some feat.

While it is acceptable to rank a character by such a self-evident feat without a calculation, one should keep in mind that the unwritten calculation is only skipped due to being trivial, but is still the justification for the ranking. Hence calc stacking will still be an issue for such feats.

Do I agree with it? No, but that's the rules

 

[Tomboy11]

I believe that doesn't work.

It's the equivalent to me saying "Since several attacks in Danny Phantom managed to tag and blitz characters who can dodge Ghost Rays which are considered lightspeed. We should use that as a default speed for those attacks and try to calculate feats." This would result in multiple calculations using this logic which can be repeated over and over until a verse has countless FTL/Massively FTL feats all based on the single principal "They are faster than a lightspeed attack so let's use that as a default." It's just not proper to use that logic in my opinion to use for calcs.

However I'm not a calc member nor do I dabble in calcs so these are just my thoughts. It's best to wait for the professionals to comment.

The Kaido calc uses this same logic to get op 8c and it was accepted

 

[Tomboy11]

Difference is that Kaidou's Thunder Bagua blitzed someone with a canon reaction speed of FTL, calling light too slow.

It's not allowed

Calc Stacking

Calc stacking refers to the practice of using results from one calculation in order to calculate other feats. Usually calc stacking is believed to be flawed, so that calculations that use it should be disregarded almost always. Usually people try to use it for calculating characters speed, but...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Do I agree with it? No, but that's the rules

Isn't it the Same for Naruto reacting to light fang and close rang

 

[KingTempest]

The Kaido calc uses this same logic to get op 8c and it was accepted

No, it's not.

Isn't it the Same for Naruto reacting to light fang and close rang

No, because Naruto never referred to the light fang as slow AND referred to the rods as fast.

One person calls something slow while using a specific sensing ability (potentially not using it at all), and with a much more potent ability calls something fast and gets blitzed by it

The other person dodged one attack and couldn't dodge another.

All you can say for it is that it's far higher than Naruto's reactions. Maybe you could calc Naruto's reactions required for light fang and scale Isshiki's rods above it, but you can't calc it unless Naruto has a statement of having those reactions

 

[ssgengar]

Difference is that Kaidou's Thunder Bagua blitzed someone with a canon reaction speed of FTL, calling light too slow.

Sasuke also has canon FTL reactions and could barely track them though?

 

[KingTempest]

Sasuke also has canon FTL reactions and could barely track them though?

It's not canon, it's calced. We accept it, but it needs to be something stated.

 

[ssgengar]

It's not canon, it's calced. We accept it, but it needs to be something stated.

What if I prove inferior attacks or movement speeds to be light speed, and use sasuke being able to track them? And scale off of relativity would that work?

something like

x attack/movement speed < sasuke reaction speed ~ isshiki rod speed

 

[KingTempest]

What if I prove inferior attacks or movement speeds to be light speed, and use sasuke being able to track them? And scale off of relativity would that work?

something like

x attack/movement speed < sasuke reaction speed ~ isshiki rod speed

That's quite frankly what I just linked that's against the rules

Just calc Naruto's reaction speed. It's higher than the 2.11c value he scales to. Calc it then just scale Isshiki's rods directly to it

 

[Tomboy11]

No, it's not.

No, because Naruto never referred to the light fang as slow AND referred to the rods as fast.

One person calls something slow while using a specific sensing ability (potentially not using it at all), and with a much more potent ability calls something fast and gets blitzed by it

The other person dodged one attack and couldn't dodge another.

All you can say for it is that it's far higher than Naruto's reactions. Maybe you could calc Naruto's reactions required for light fang and scale Isshiki's rods above it, but you can't calc it unless Naruto has a statement of having those reactions

Wait we are using luffy statement to scale . Ok see it from this angle the statement of luffy = a similar notion of isshiki rods still being above light fang
So wouldn't that just mean u can say ' oh let me know low ball the iron rods to light speed and use them to calc ' we are acting like statement is the only premise used to scale what is/ is not faster ?

+ We are removing the Context of Luffy feat
Luffy react to light beams from a distance and calls them slow ( it is like a baseballer reacts to a pitch and calls it slow due to the fact it was fired from a distance but fire from a closer distance he would mostly likely not say so .

To be fair if such a statement was used as the reasoning for the basis for the calc

Why is it when a character like sasuke say he can't react to them,can't be used as basis for us also saying ( let's low ball the rods to ls and use it to calc )

 

[KingTempest]

Wait we are using luffy statement to scale . Ok see it from this angle the statement of luffy = a similar notion of isshiki rods still being above light fang
So wouldn't that just mean u can say ' oh let me know low ball the iron rods to light speed and use them to calc ' we are acting like statement is the only premise used to scale what is/ is not faster ?

+ We are removing the Context of Luffy feat
Luffy react to light beams from a distance and calls them slow ( it is like a baseballer reacts to a pitch and calls it slow due to the fact it was fired from a distance but fire from a closer distance he would mostly likely not say so .

To be fair if such a statement was used as the reasoning for the basis for the calc

Why is it when a character like sasuke say he can't react to them,can't be used as basis for us also saying ( let's low ball the rods to ls and use it to calc )

If Luffy didn't call them slow, then they couldn't calc the feat. Luffy called them slow, which means that he can have that reaction.

Unless Sasuke or Naruto has referred to a lightspeed attack as slow, you cannot calc anything involving their reactions. Simple.

Stop trying to find ways around it.

 

[Tomboy11]

If Luffy didn't call them slow, then they couldn't calc the feat. Luffy called them slow, which means that he can have that reaction.

Unless Sasuke or Naruto has referred to a lightspeed attack as slow, you cannot calc anything involving their reactions. Simple.

Stop trying to find ways around it.

I am not finding a way around it ,the premise are way too similar
/ The context behind the reasoning are very similar
Light fang is shown to be visually to slow to hit Naruto at close range / isshiki rods are stated to be too fast for a character similar to Naruto in speed to react to= isshiki attacks are above light speed

Luffy state light is slow while reacting from a distance = kaido swings attacks are at least ls

And u want Naruto to say light fang is slow when he already react to it at close distance like I don't get

Dey literally= the same thing

 

[KingTempest]

I am not finding a way around it ,the premise are way too similar
/ The context behind the reasoning are very similar
Light fang is shown to be visually to slow to hit Naruto at close range / isshiki rods are stated to be too fast for a character similar to Naruto in speed to react to= isshiki attacks are above light speed

Luffy state light is slow while reacting from a distance = kaido swings attacks are at least ls

And u want Naruto to say light fang is slow when he already react to it at close distance like I don't get

Dey literally= the same thing

The rules say they are not the same thing

So yeah. No. Get Naruto blatantly stating it's in his reaction speed instead of the calc stacking

 

[Tomboy11]

If Luffy didn't call them slow, then they couldn't calc the feat. Luffy called them slow, which means that he can have that reaction.

Unless Sasuke or Naruto has referred to a lightspeed attack as slow, you cannot calc anything involving their reactions. Simple.

Stop trying to find ways around it.

But any how sha
I'm Just showing u guys how the implications works for other scales

 

[KingTempest]

But any how sha

I'm Just showing u guys how the implications works for other scales

Other verses have other logic that this verse fails to match

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

If you wanna use reactions times to get a speed from the Light Fang calc that’s a no no cuz it’s objectively calc stacking. You’d have to assume a speed for the rods and justify that speed in the calc <- that’s the only way to go about things without calc stacking.

Also, no whataboutisms with other verses. The situations are likely not as comparable as you think.

 

[Tomboy11]

Other verses have other logic that this verse fails to match

But this is a logically assumption created by us
If the premise are similar then they can be used in a similar manner

So I don't get what u mean by ' other verses have other logic that this verse fails to match '

 

[KingTempest]

But this is a logically assumption created by us
If the premise are similar then they can be used in a similar manner

So I don't get what u mean by ' other verses have other logic that this verse fails to match '

Similar doesn't mean the same. A lot of valid methods are similar to calc stacking methods.

One person calls an attack slow and calls another attack fast.
The other person doesn't call the attack slow, and a person who has no reason to scale to his reactions says that another attack is fast

They aren't that similar

 

[ssgengar]

That's quite frankly what I just linked that's against the rules

Just calc Naruto's reaction speed. It's higher than the 2.11c value he scales to. Calc it then just scale Isshiki's rods directly to it

So I can calc spsm Naruto’s reaction speed then right? Then scale the rods to that?

Spsm naruto dodging & reacting to isshiki’s rods

 

[Tomboy11]

If you wanna use reactions times to get a speed from the Light Fang calc that’s a no no cuz it’s objectively calc stacking. You’d have to assume a speed for the rods and justify that speed in the calc <- that’s the only way to go about things without calc stacking.

Also, no whataboutisms with other verses. The situations are likely not as comparable as you think.

No no no, not the calc
That would be calc stacking
But the notion of
Light fang is a light speed attack that can be reacted to easily by characters but the rods are stated to be too fast for the same character that react to light fang
( Just like the kaido calc it could be also said ' let's just say at the bare minimum the rods are ls) this seems very similar to us saying ( let's say kaido
bare minimum attacks is LS and use it to calc )
U dig

U can see the similarities
One Is just a pure feat for the basis , while the other is a statement which = the conclusion that at the bear minimum those attacks are light speed

 

[Testarossa002]

The rules say they are not the same thing

So yeah. No. Get Naruto blatantly stating it's in his reaction speed instead of the calc stacking

How about we look at it like this?
Light fang was stated to be light speed and impossible to dodge
Naruto dodged it
But couldn't dodge ishiki's rods

Doesn't that mean that ishiki's rods are canonically above light fang in speed?

 

[Tomboy11]

Similar doesn't mean the same. A lot of valid methods are similar to calc stacking methods.

One person calls an attack slow and calls another attack fast.
The other person doesn't call the attack slow, and a person who has no reason to scale to his reactions says that another attack is fast

They aren't that similar

One person show that the attack isn't fast enough to tag him ( doesn't that mean the attack is slow )
Then another person say the other attack is way to fast
This person scale similar to the person that reacted to the ls attack

We are talking like as if feats are not good ways for validating when an attack is slower or faster than a person reaction time

 

[ssgengar]

So I can calc spsm Naruto’s reaction speed then right? Then scale the rods to that?

Spsm naruto dodging & reacting to isshiki’s rods

@Arc7Kuroi can i do this? Calc spsm Naruto’s reaction speed, and scale the rod speed off of it, then use that speed to calc baryon mode Naruto’s feat of reacting to and catching them?

 

[Testarossa002]

@Arc7Kuroi can i do this? Calc spsm Naruto’s reaction speed, and scale the rod speed off of it, then use that speed to calc baryon mode Naruto’s feat of reacting to and catching them?

Nah
That's definitely calc stacking
Iirc, someone did it on the general thread and got mftl but was thrown out for the above reason

 

[Tomboy11]

@Arc7Kuroi can i do this? Calc spsm Naruto’s reaction speed, and scale the rod speed off of it, then use that speed to calc baryon mode Naruto’s feat of reacting to and catching them?

If we accept that kaido attack at the barest minimum is ls
We can also assume the rods at the barest minimum are also light speed
We are not using a calc so it isn't Calc stacking

 

[ssgengar]

Nah
That's definitely calc stacking
Iirc, someone did it on the general thread and got mftl but was thrown out for the above reason

Then at the very least I can still use spsm Naruto’s reaction speed to scale the rods off of it right

 

[Tomboy11]

Then at the very least I can still use spsm Naruto’s reaction speed to scale the rods off of it right

Just assume the rods are ls at best and use it to calc
That would be the safest assumption+ it was the same logic used for the Kaido calc I think

 

[Testarossa002]

Then at the very least I can still use spsm Naruto’s reaction speed to scale the rods off of it right

You mean equating the rods to 2.11c?

That's calc stacking though
Since it was a calc that gave that value