Isekai at Peace Discussion Thread

[Celestial_Pegasus]

As hilarious as scaling the symbols would be, it's all or nothing provided all the reasoning supporting it is correct, ie Nebula is 1-A, Shiro is either 1 layer above 1-A or High 1-A.

Though 1-A+ would be amusing since it would be the same tier as Ruphas, albeit Ruphas would still be ridiculously stronger. Man how times have changed when Shiro and Ruphas get upgraded, meanwhile Yogiri is on a downgrade spiral.

 

[Fantric]

We gonna collect every single thing we can get to upscale the verse

Using those things can be just as headache inducing tho......took me a few days to even get a general Idea of what those symbols might represent.....and even that depends on the translation interpretation....

 

[Fantric]

meaninwhile Yogori is on a downgrade spiral.

Dude went from strongest JP Isekai character to....like what? Top 5 or smth?

 

[Noneless21]

Lord if Isis' passive has change again, the whole cast's resistance gonna need to be changed again

 

[Fantric]

Isis's hax are currently 6D, they're gonna get downgraded to 5D if I'm right.....well, good luck with that

 

[Enter_Bluey]

It's either Shiro treats Nebula as fiction, so a layer. Or Shiro treats 1A the same way 1As treat the other for high 1A. Those symbols don't mean much besides that Shiro is beyond everyone right now. Which is why it's funny to see people scale them. Some isekai at Peace scalers are certainly very amusing to me ngl I have seen all logical and possibilities and impossibilities kuro scaling. Just from one use of prologue..

And yeah the top JP isekai tiers have changed a lot. Especially Ruphas and Shiro, the latter who just continued to jump up(we could have dropped a bomb to make Ruphas nuts in the old system too..wonder how much hate that wouldve brought for that verse at the time)

 

[Fantric]

The logically possible and impossible things.....

I've seen a scale where the guy(idk who made that scale, a friend sent me that) used Chronois's authority of time and space to prove WCs are outer....no, there's nothing especially wrong with the reasoning itself, transcending concept of space and time can make you outer....but why Chronois..? Dude could've argued the world having concept of space and time to prove it's type 1 but dude seriously brought out type 2 CM for outer

 

[Bummel]

Makina 1A immortality first i loves my can't dies mum

 

[Fantric]

Pretty sure the whole argument itself works on the 1-A Immortality so mama will have to carry use all fr.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Now gotten to where that Tiana statement came from.

Think I will stick with my initial thoughts of her being 1-B.

As for Makina I think her immortality is actual Low 1-A, which Nebula would be 1-A due to her superiority over others being due to her nature of being absolute.

But my current view on the God hierarchy looks like this:

Quasi-Omnipotent= 5-D to 6-D

Omnipotent=7-D

Omniscient and Omnipotent (excluding Tiana)= 8-D

Tiana=1-B (can't put an exact number)

Nebula=1-A

Shiro= 1 layer above 1-A or High 1-A.

 

[Legacy30]

Seems about right.

As for Tiana's higher-order dimensions shenanigans, starting from omnipotents like Kuro and Shiro, they should have the range to perceive and interfere with these higher dimensions, but their existence is still tied to their current dimensional level.

 

[Fantric]

Well, I thought of the L1-A possibility as well and was wishing that might not be the case but...meh

I'm just gonna leave this here, I have absolutely no idea if this can even be scaled or what this add but just seemed interesting combined with info from newer chapters so.......

[You know, it’s that guy I used as an example when I explained Shallow Vernal’s power to Alice before.]


[That infinite identical beings in an infinite multidimensional universe, with even high capabilities of omniscience and omnipotence?]

[Unnn, that’s right…… They really were one of the most powerful beings I’ve ever fought. In order to counter those infinite identical beings, I created the “Infinite Omnipotent Soldiers” and fought against it…… In the end, our fight was never settled.]

[A battle between infinite versus. Another battle of a whole different level.]

[The both of us didn’t have enough power to decisively end our battle. No matter how many I destroy on their side, they just keep reviving infinitely, and no matter how many they defeat, my army of Abysses keeps being created infinitely…… Neither side had a decisive move to defeat the other side, so we ended up fighting for about a hundred million years. In that situation, the first one to say “Let’s call for a truce” would have to sign the contract on unfavorable terms, so it ended up being a battle of endurance.]

[……So, did you win the endurance contest?]

[You already know how it ended up, and yet you ask that question?]

[……”Your opponent has met their end” huh.]
~760

This "infinite Multi-Dimensional universe" there is a possibility that this might be refering to parallel timeline(and whatever that is) but the usage of words in newer chapters seemed interesting to me at least

<Afterword>




Makina : [By the way, I heard the power ranking goes something like: Universe Annihilation Punch < Multiversal Rift Chop < Multidimensional Collapse Kick.]

Serious-senpai : [To take that and only feel pain…… I guess that’s just what you’d expect from someone called Omnipotent……]
~2066

So, the difference between universe, multiverse and dimensions is clarified here. Multi-Dimensional here is stronger than Multiversal so.... Higher dimensions? Idk what I do know is that even Quasi-Omnipotent beings can freely create higher dimensions so is it not possible that a being who has even higher powers of Omnipotence and Omniscience can't create this universe....? Idk

Well, I'm not currently implying anything and I still need to check the raws tbh so it's very well possible that raws won't support this but.....

 

[Fantric]

Seems about right.

As for Tiana's higher-order dimensions shenanigans, starting from omnipotents like Kuro and Shiro, they should have the range to perceive and interfere with these higher dimensions, but their existence is still tied to their current dimensional level.

About Shiro and Kuro, wouldn't it be more better to take the statement of them interfering with higher dimensions is in general rather than specifically Bipolar's dimensions, so I don't think it changes anything.....and they can "interfere" with higher dimensions, if we do take it as higher dimensions than them then.....that would give them smurf hax lmao

 

[Legacy30]

No, the raws state it was higher-order dimensions, which is the category Tiana belongs to.

　もちろんシャローヴァナルやクロムエイナといった、高位次元を認識ないし干渉できる存在であれば見聞きすることが出来るのだが、通常は困難だ。
Of course, beings such as Shallow Vernal or Kuromueina, who can perceive or interfere with higher-order dimensions (高位次元), are able to see and hear ∇∮◆￡. However, it is exceedingly difficult.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Where does the 1B come from? I assumed taking the similar amount of dimensions the lower multiverse of dimensions has, and using that for the higher order one. But idk

 

[Fantric]

No, the raws state it was higher-order dimensions, which is the category Tiana belongs to.

Oh.....well, if raws support this then no problem ig Shiro and Kuro get smurfs...?

 

[Legacy30]

Where does the 1B come from? I assumed taking the similar amount of dimensions the lower multiverse of dimensions has, and using that for the higher order one. But idk

This I think

数多ある世界の中でも極めて高位次元の存在であり、ごく一部の例外（物語の終わり等）を除き、下位次元の法則や能力は全てティアナには通用せず、あらゆる法則をティアナは無視及び無効化できる。
An extremely higher-order dimensional existence (高位次元の存在), even among the countless worlds. With very few exceptions (such as the Epilogue), none of the laws or abilities of lower dimensions apply to Tiana. She can ignore or nullify all such laws at will.

It's how you interpret the extremely part, saying that Tiana is way above 8D Omniscient and Omnipotents. As such, the number of dimensions she has is unquantifiable.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

This I think

It's how you interpret the extremely part, saying that Tiana is way above 8D Omniscient and Omnipotents. As such, the number of dimensions she has is unquantifiable.

I see...I guess extremely part even among countless worlds? Hard to tell where exactly from this, but countless is at least more than a mere 4-5

 

[Fantric]

Oh wait, I just noticed Quasi-Omnipotent, Omnipotent and Omnipotent and Omniscient got different dimensional tiers.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I see...I guess extremely part even among countless worlds? Hard to tell where exactly from this, but countless is at least more than a mere 4-5

The extremely higher-order dimensional existence statement is large part of it which points to 1-B, but also this

With a gentle smile, ∇∮◆￡ responded to Nebula’s words. Though she could turn into a berserker when consumed by jealousy, her usual personality was extremely gentle and relaxed, with an air of calmness that made her seem like a rather mild-mannered woman.
Seeing ∇∮◆￡ like that, Nebula suddenly seemed to remember something and spoke up.
[Now that I think about it, your world exists on a much higher dimensional level than this one or Milord’s world. Is everything okay in terms of adjustment?]
[Yes. As you might imagine, it was a bit tricky. I managed to adjust my appearance like this, but the real problem was my name…… Since I exist in a higher dimension, the people living in this world wouldn’t be able to perceive it as language.]
[That’s true. Everyone has some degree of cognitive compensation, so it would likely be perceived as an extremely high or low, strange sound.]
∇∮◆￡ was a being from a far higher dimension than this one. Just as two-dimensional beings cannot perceive the third dimension, beings like ∇∮◆￡ from a higher dimension cannot be recognized by the inhabitants of this world in terms of form or voice.
Of course, beings such as Shallow Vernal or Kuromueina, who can perceive or even interfere with higher dimensions, could see and hear ∇∮◆￡, but ordinarily, that would be impossible.
Thanks to the brain’s compensation mechanisms, ∇∮◆￡ might be perceived as a grotesque monster with an unpleasant, strange voice, but such interpretations would make actual conversation impossible. That’s why ∇∮◆￡ had adjusted her body and language functions to enter this world. However, her name remained a problem. It simply couldn’t be rendered properly here, so she was planning a separate solution for that.
[Yes, that's why I came up with a name suited for this world so I could introduce myself to Kaito-sama. In this world, I go by the name "Tiana".]
[I see. Then, while we're meeting in this world, I shall address you as Tiana-san.]
[Yes.]-Chapter 2207

Tiana exists on a much higher dimensional level than either the world of Trinia, which imo contains like 7 dimensions or Makina's world which apparently is bigger than Trinia.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

The extremely higher-order dimensional existence statement is large part of it which points to 1-B, but also this



Tiana exists on a much higher dimensional level than either the world of Trinia, which imo contains like 7 dimensions or Makina's world which apparently is bigger than Trinia.

So it would be like much higher than 8 dimensions, or even among beings of much higher order worlds she's very high? At the least the fact being from a higher multiverse renders them unperceivable helps. Guess this makes sense

Makes me wonder though. If only Shiro and kuro can perceive those higher dimensions, is this because of their 1A smurf capabilities? Makina for example can only stand the slightest of chances because of her immortality(still odd she can even win in the first place, unless she and Alice can evolve to higher order levels in extreme conditions with low chances)

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The Shiro and Kuro statement is a little confusing, basically the example given is how a 2-D being can't perceive a 3-D being, Tiana's existence is the same, meaning unless you're on her level logically you shouldn't be able to perceive her, also the reason she can brute force and stomp almost anyone is because as a higher dimensional being, she can ignore all the abilities and what not of lower dimensional beings.

Yet Kuro and Shiro can perceive Tiana, in fact Canalis and the other world creators seemingly perceive her just fine too, so only thing that makes logical sense is as Legacy says, in that while they themselves aren't 1-B like Tiana their perception and range (not hax) are 1-B.

 

[Legacy30]

snip

Considering that even Alice was confident enough to win against an omnipotent and omniscient world creator back when was still quasi-omnipotent. It tracks that Makina's only viable wincon against Tiana is to evolve beyond her.

[……I’m honestly confident that I can win against an omniscient and omnipotent God. It will take me a lot of time to bring out the power to make it possible……
~chapter 711

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Yea imo Makina's immortality makes it so it's impossible for anyone but Nebula/Shiro to kill her.

And while the other person can't kill her, she will just evolve and surpass them if given enough time, so that would explain why Makina has a slight chance, roughly 10% of winning against Tiana.

Just means we have to upgrade Makina and Alice's RE to 1-B overtime i guess.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

I believe it says Kuro/Shiro can barely manage to perceive such beings, or something like that. So it's probably not even because 1A smurf...just actually smurf range. Even if they aren't omniscient/omnipotent. Unless the fused form was beyond omnipotent, and so the effects lingered. As the epilogue form, and the true form are different...

Considering that even Alice was confident enough to win against an omnipotent and omniscient world creator back when was still quasi-omnipotent. It tracks that Makina's only viable wincon against Tiana is to evolve beyond her.

It would take Alice much more time I guess, but eventually she would pull something off. A lot of this is dependent on the situation

Alice will get into a tug-of-war with Makina if she's protecting Kaito, and evolve to match her. Her evolution is based off emotion and mentality. So what about when both face a higher order person?

Are they both emotion based, and require certain conditions to start evolving to high opponents like that? Or would Makina only be an overtime thing where she eventually has a very slight chance of winning; while Alice if she has the right conditions, speedily jumps up to her opponents level to face them? Because Alice can't evolve to match Makina normally...it confuses me

Edit: okay after thinking about it, I think Makina and Alice are rather unique. Makina herself can't handle omnipotents as easily as Nebula who legit one shots them. Even with RE in mind. Infact she takes a while to do so...but has a certain chance to beat a person much stronger than her, Nebula(this makes me think omnipotents/omnpotent and omniscients are equal in dimensionality. One just has the knowledge to counter) Similar to Alice, she has infinite growth and evolution. Both have certain chances to start evolving higher to beat a much higher opponent. Both may just be 1B overtime in like peak conditions of power, and 1C normally

 

[Noneless21]

To be honest, having a 10% chance of winning against beings who is inexplicably higher beings than you is extremely big, considering Tiana resist everything the order and concept of lower dimensional beings so Makina had to brute force her RE to match her level

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Did it say exactly 10%? Or just a slight chance? I already forgot

 

[Noneless21]

Did it say exactly 10%? Or just a slight chance? I already forgot

it says 10%, and that just cemented Makina as the 4th strongest entity since not even Canalis and Electrone can even have a chance at beating Tiana

 

[Enter_Bluey]

it says 10%, and that just cemented Makina as the 4th strongest entity since not even Canalis and Electrone can even have a chance at beating Tiana

Isekai at Peace a little all over the place with the strength tier list now...

As for that 10% tho, I think it may makes sense for her RE to work like Alice's in some way. Since I don't see how else the RE will change from overtime to reaching whatever extreme amount. Makina will lose 90% of the time one way or the other even with her immortality. So...what changes with that smaller percent? She may get a speed boost in her evolution some how, before getting like incapacitated, sealed or whatever bipolar God can do

 

[Noneless21]

found it, chapter 2198

Well, fortunately, it's not just me ---- Alice, Kuro, and the others are also on high alert when it comes to Makina-san's antics. We're not as careless as last time, so there's a high chance we'll stop her before she does anything.

And as Alice pointed out, this time Canalis-san is here as well, so the safety level should be even higher.

[Of course, I'll help when the time comes. Also, it just so happens that a ridiculously strong friend of mine is nearby, so if anything happens, l'm sure she'll lend a hand.]

[ ...... Stop that. That God has like an 8:2 or 9:1 advantage over me ...... No, even if I go all out, I'd probably lose nine times out of ten ...... I've prepared an actual present this time, so please don't call in that ultimate-evolution form of "punch-first, ask-later" incarnate.]

[The fact that you even have a 10% chance of winning against that person just shows that you're among the strongest World Creators, Makina-san. Tahaa ~~ well, in any case, please make sure your present stays within reasonable limits.]

I don't really get what's going on, but Makina-san looked genuinely troubled, so it seems like an incredibly powerful God is nearby. That means the safety level just went up even more.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

She always mentions going all out, which could mean an evolution mental state simular to Alice's in condition

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Change of plans. I will be focusing on Isekai at Peace before going back to AWLBA.

In fact, I have multiple sandboxes started. Basically working my way down my long list of gathered feats. I have some time off next week, so I expect to get a lot done, but we will see.

Barely started anything and already have some interesting stuff, ultimately all 6 Kings will be extraordinary genius, also interestingly enough have reactive evolution, basically seems this is how the hax from other people below them wouldn't be a threat, they instantly develop resistance to stuff used on them.

Also bare minimum the "world" of Trinia as in the realms is big enough to contain starry skies, when factoring in the dimension in between them, so 6 Kings being able to destroy that would be 4-A, if they didn't already scale to weaker ppl who can do that, but yea interesting.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

So to conclude the tier for the six kings, it'll be 4A? Makes sense as it's consistent with scaling above peak counts. Along with MFTL+ speed. Interestingly enough, trinia being that big can also be an aid to Chronois, who last I remember can search all the oceans, and like multiple direct locations all over Trinia quickly.

Where does the RE come from tho? Because it's kinda made out to be they have way more skill than lower ranks. RE would imply they grow to resist each other's hax as well, that would include stuff like their dura,regen neg, causality hax no? This would also make Alice's UBF less unique among the six kings I feel(but I guess hers is infinite growth and evolution, theirs would not be?). Idk..

 

[Noneless21]

I don't even remember Six Kings have RE this is getting crazy, and the fact that they tussle with each other means they resist all of their hax too

this is getting too crazy

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Enter_Bluey Idk if the tier for 6 Kings will be 4-A, I haven't even started really compiling all the evidence in 1 place. But as I said at minimum they would be 4-A.

The thing with the space between dimensions is that the only one we see go there are Gods like Eden, other people just teleport from one realm to the next, there is an actual wall preventing people from getting to it, but if we think 6 Kings can really destroy the world as in the realms, their power obviously bypasses the wall, question is would Chronois go through the realm, which at that time had nothing or just teleport from one realm to the next after searching the oceans in each, I think the latter makes more sense.

That said if their attacks can reach multi-solar system ranges, and they dodge those attacks from each other, people like Chronois scale anyway. We already see Peak COunt Ranks doing this.

RE funnily enough actual comes from Lilia, underhanded methods like poison don't work on her cause she just instantly produce antibodies in response. 6 Kings are like Lilia, bugs in the world. Does that mean their RE would extend to more broken hax like subjective reality? Maybe, but its not really shown, we just have scaling to Lilia for the moment.

 

[Noneless21]

If I can be really honest, I think RE from developing antibody does not hold a candle against RE that can flat out gives you resistance to higher level hax, not too sure. Especially since Funf (in LN) does the same thing and Illness can bypass it indefinitely

Their whole speed was weird because they can teleport everywhere with no restriction whatsoever, but mftl+ from reacting to falling stars does seem like a good start at least

 

[Noneless21]

Also, there could be an explanation as to why the Epilogue change because Shiro herself changed therefore the Epilogue also changed but that is headcanon and it very much is wank

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Noneless21

-Chapter 1628

Yea it isn't anything too crazy, but basically even if a poison was effective on Lilia, she just immediately develops a resistance. I think there may have been some more feats for this for the 6 Kings, that's not Lilia related, but haven't too far into anything to remember what it was.

One thing I do remember though is that all 6 Kings are resistant to status effects. So in theory it looks like they are resistant to hax, and even if you could bypass that, they develop a resistant.

 

[Noneless21]

Sounds like RE yeah, looks like everyone is getting a lot of upgrades huh

What's 2k chapters does to a verse

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Btw from that same chapter Lilia is able to instantly dismantle techniques like sealing used against her.

So yea overall, when the question is asked how would 6Kings counter seemingly broken hax like Lillie's subjective reality, there are many explanations; they might resist it, they might develop a resistance, or just power null it.

The fact that power null becomes a normal thing at count rank, should really clue you in, that the 6 Kings probably have broken power null.

I may have to split the ability addition into multiple threads if it gets too big, there is going to be a lot after all.