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I don't think Samug should be scaling to Gandalf for the reasons mentioned above.
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Is this Smaug calc usable?
- Thread starter Hagane_no_Saiyajin
- Start date
- 18,393
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I did not see the edit part but I agree with Damage as well.
- 6,455
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- Thread starter
- #124
Also, I don't think movie Smaug should have the same tier as book Smaug, the feat of shaking the mountain was book only. Although we do see Smaug in the movies take a giant statue of molten gold getting melted on top of him
Edit: Also, what source gives Smaug's mass of 100 tons?
Edit: Also, what source gives Smaug's mass of 100 tons?
- 165,042
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Agreed. The books and movies should preferably not scale to each other.
- 6,455
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- Thread starter
- #126
I did a quick calc of this on Google spreadsheet and got 8-A results with Possibly Class M LS
- 6,455
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- Thread starter
- #127
Smaug vs statue
vsbattles.fandom.com
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Gandalf considers Smaug a being of Immense power and nothing really supports the idea that Smaug is any lesser than his ancestors from the War of Wrath, I also think the "mountain level" feats done by him and the Balrog vs. Gandalf figjt indicates some sort of parity.
- 2,709
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Ah right, we discussed that in the other thread I think.
I'm still against solidly scaling him to his ancestors as he lacks feats and statements on that level.
Plus we don't actually have a solid generic dragon tier, so he would either downscale to Ancalagon, which is a big no (as that would put him above WoR Sauron) or vaguely around Glaurung at best.
If we do go for that option, I'm personally in favour of an at most or possibly rating.
- 6,455
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- Thread starter
- #131
That doesn't sound all that bad
- 2,709
- 2,492
It's not the worst solution, but the link between the two is somewhat shaky.
Glaurung is a named Dragon of relative power in the Silmarillion, with many dragons being beneath him.
Winged dragons are indeed meant to be an improvement on flightless dragons, but it's hard to outright say that every flightless dragon was inferior to even the lowest winged dragon. Perhaps specifically mighty flightless dragons like Glaurung are superior to some winged dragons, its unknown.
Moreover, Smaug is a relatively young winged dragon, in the sense that he was born several millenia after the War of Wrath, meaning there's an added divide between him and his ancestors in chronology, coupled with the lack of statements of whether he actually compares his ancestors, which adds another layer of skepticism.
Of course, that's not to say Smaug 100% does not scale, as he is still a winged dragon (and last of the great dragons), which were meant to be an improvement on flightless dragons like Glaurung, but it's muddy enough for a fair amount of skepticism.
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- Thread starter
- #133
@TherefirSmaug vs statue
- 165,042
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- Thread starter
- #135
I at least support "at least 7-C, possibly higher or whatever we make out Smaug to be"
- 6,455
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- Thread starter
- #138
Considering that shaking Erebor is book only, the feat is not usable to justify film Smaug's 7-C rating, and besides, the calc for Smaug is outdated
- 2,709
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I'm in favour of the first option, although I'm waiting on Merchant's response.
The alternative would be "at least 7-C, possibly Low 7-B" (from Glaurung's rating) at least in terms of what I would personally accept.
- 165,042
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Can somebody clarify the basis for Glaurung's and Smaug's respective tiers (Low 7-B and 7-C?) please?
- 2,709
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Smaug's 7-C is from this thread's calcs I believe.
Glaurung's Low 7-B is from the Balrogs, who are Low 7-B, likely higher for scaling above Morgoth's scream.
- 6,455
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- Thread starter
- #144
bump
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I've made the changes to add a "possibly Low 7-B" based on winged dragons being Morgoth's last resort.
Only "possibly", as Smaug was born over 6000 years after his ancestors were specially made. Merchant didn't make a response.
Only "possibly", as Smaug was born over 6000 years after his ancestors were specially made. Merchant didn't make a response.
- 6,455
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- Thread starter
- #146
I tidied up the grammar a little
- 2,709
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Thanks. Was there anything else to do for this thread?
- 6,455
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- Thread starter
- #148
Not sure, unless Merchant or anyone else has anything to say
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