Is this enough for type 1 concept manip?

[Rikimarox2]

Should be relatively simple.

Basically, the character was stated to be a conceptual God, existing at the beginning of the universe. They were the concept of life, and conceptualized it and created life. It was also stated if the God was to die, anything related to the concept of life would disappear.

So I gotta ask, since she was a concept God before even life existed and she was the literal concept of life, and if she died anything that lives ceases to exist, would this be enough for type 1 concept, or is it just type 2?

 

[KLOL506]

Depends on whether the concept is also bound to an aspect of reality or not.

If so, Type 2. If not, Type 1.

The God should also need to be the literal abstraction itself. The God cannot be a mere embodiment/container of said concept.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Depends on whether the concept is also bound to an aspect of reality or not.

What do you mean, exactly?

The God should also need to be the literal abstraction itself. The God cannot be a mere embodiment/container of said concept.

She was called a literal concept, having no body whatsoever and needs to make avatars to interact with the world.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Should be relatively simple.

Basically, the character was stated to be a conceptual God, existing at the beginning of the universe. They were the concept of life, and conceptualized it and created life. It was also stated if the God was to die, anything related to the concept of life would disappear.

So I gotta ask, since she was a concept God before even life existed and she was the literal concept of life, and if she died anything that lives ceases to exist, would this be enough for type 1 concept, or is it just type 2?

I think I remember this God, he's the same as the creator of death note, isn't he? This God there has to have a profile here, he seems to have type 8 immortality too, as long as people think of him, he will always exist, in the end he killed himself with an arrow in the chest and took the whole universe and his dimension

 

[Rikimarox2]

Nah, it has nothing related to death note or anything like that. This sounds interesting, though.

This is more for Second Life Ranker, it's novel more specifically.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Nah, it has nothing related to death note or anything like that. This sounds interesting, though.

This is more for Second Life Ranker, it's novel more specifically.

Yes, he is as you described, I stopped reading that manga, but I think this must be as you mentioned in the manga itself.

 

[KLOL506]

What do you mean, exactly?

As per out concept types:

1. Independent Universal Concepts: Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.

2. Dependent Concepts: Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence. These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself. These concepts, however, exist simultaneously with and are bound by the object of the concept. In this way, an abstract dependent concept can be destroyed by destroying all objects of the concept, restored by re-making an object of a previously existent concept, or changed by changing all objects of the concept across reality. This, however, does not qualify for this form of conceptual manipulation, and is rather treated as a by-product of another action akin to a "domino effect". This type of conceptual manipulation can only be obtained if the abstract concept itself is changed directly, and not by indirect methods. For example, destroying humanity and thus "ending the concept of humanity" would not qualify, while directly "ending the concept of humanity" and thus destroying humanity would qualify.

3. Lesser Fundamental Concepts: Concepts that don't meet the same standards as Type 1 or Type 2, such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question, merely on a more specific scale, or concepts whose nature is not elaborated upon. Case-by-case specifications and explanations are necessary for such concepts and examples, and they are likely not going to meet the same standards for abilities such as High-Godly regeneration that other concepts may. Conceptual manipulation of this type can be resisted by those who resist sufficiently similar abilities, even if the exact mechanics may differ.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Ah, that. Well, I don't recall any statement of the being bound or unbound by it, but wouldn't the fact that life itself didn't exist yet she existed already prove she isn't bound by it?

 

[KLOL506]

Ah, that. Well, I don't recall any statement of the being bound or unbound by it, but wouldn't the fact that life itself didn't exist yet she existed already prove she isn't bound by it?

No, you'd need explicit proof of being unbound by reality, like say, predating it or creating reality itself.

An evidently-good example would be the Primordials from God of War. They created everything in the Greek World, nothing existed before them, neither time, nor space, nor any concept whatsoever until they popped up, being the literal quintessential abstractions of nature itself, they are the literal abstract concepts of the aspect of reality they represent, for example, Chaos is literally life and chaos itself. Uranus is the literal concept of the universe, Thanatos is literally Death itself, Nyx and Erebus are both the literal concepts of Darkness itself, Morpheus is literally the concept of dreams, and their physical bodies serve as embodiments for said concepts, while their true forms are the concepts themselves. They have no care for the reality and its aspects that they rule over in the least bit, to affect them you'd need to affect their very concept.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

No, you'd need explicit proof of being unbound by reality, like say, predating it or creating reality itself.

An evidently-good example would be the Primordials from God of War. They created everything in the Greek World, nothing existed before them, neither time, nor space, nor any concept whatsoever until they popped up, being the literal quintessential abstractions of nature itself, they are the literal abstract concepts of the aspect of reality they represent, for example, Chaos is literally life and chaos itself. Uranus is the literal concept of the universe, Thanatos is literally Death itself, Nyx and Erebus are both the literal concepts of Darkness itself, Morpheus is literally the concept of dreams, and their physical bodies serve as embodiments for said concepts, while their true forms are the concepts themselves.

Just a question bro, when are you going to describe the evils of God Of War is it described as a concept? Because when I was playing lately no concepts appeared in my language, does it really need the word "concept" to actually be one?

 

[KLOL506]

Just a question bro, when are you going to describe the evils of God Of War is it described as a concept? Because when I was playing lately no concepts appeared in my language, does it really need the word "concept" to actually be one?

No, not really, you don't need them. Sometimes, being blatantly evident of being a concept without being directly called one is enough. The Great Evils are literally the concepts of those emotions and sins in their rawest form, that threaten to destroy the reality of both man and gods without a care for themselves because they aren't affected by what goes in their reality itself.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

No, not really, you don't need them. Sometimes, being blatantly evident of being a concept without being directly called one is enough. The Great Evils are literally the concepts of those emotions and sins in their rawest form, that threaten to destroy the reality of both man and gods without a care for themselves because they aren't affected by what goes in their reality itself.

I think you would help us a lot with Zamasu being a concept since you understand a lot about it, can you also tag @Vietthai96 there ?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/zamasu-and-his-bad-ae.149903/page-3#post-5513641

 

[KLOL506]

No, not really, you don't need them. Sometimes, being blatantly evident of being a concept without being directly called one is enough. The Great Evils are literally the concepts of those emotions and sins in their rawest form, that threaten to destroy the reality of both man and gods without a care for themselves because they aren't affected by what goes in their reality itself.

In the end, they completely destroy the Greek World and revert it to complete Chaos (The same Primordial state where nothing existed) while being unaffected themselves. That's why Kratos sacrificed himself to give Hope, the most powerful weapon in the GoW verse, to mankind in order to give them a second fighting chance and to free them from the Gods.

 

[KLOL506]

I think you would help us a lot with Zamasu being a concept since you understand a lot about it, can you also tag @Vietthai96 there ?

It's not that hard to understand TBF once you get the basic criteria for it.

Type 1 Concepts: Unbound to reality and governs it

Type 2 Concepts: Governs reality but is bound to it

Type 3 Concepts: Doesn't govern reality, only a specific object, hence, it is a personal limited concept

 

[Rikimarox2]

No, you'd need explicit proof of being unbound by reality, like say, predating it or creating reality itself.

An evidently-good example would be the Primordials from God of War. They created everything in the Greek World, nothing existed before them, neither time, nor space, nor any concept whatsoever until they popped up, being the literal quintessential abstractions of nature itself, they are the literal abstract concepts of the aspect of reality they represent, for example, Chaos is literally life and chaos itself. Uranus is the literal concept of the universe, Thanatos is literally Death itself, Nyx and Erebus are both the literal concepts of Darkness itself, Morpheus is literally the concept of dreams, and their physical bodies serve as embodiments for said concepts, while their true forms are the concepts themselves. They have no care for the reality and its aspects that they rule over in the least bit, to affect them you'd need to affect their very concept.

Well, not exactly sure I have anything like that. All we know is the she is the literal concept of life , existed in the beginning of time, and helped in the creation of the cosmos, and was stated to create multiple worlds, dimensions, and universes. And that if she were to die, the universe that contains other universes would possibly be destroyed since the laws of nature she embodied would be destroyed as well.

If that isn't enough, then rip, I guess I have to settle with type 2.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

If she was created with the beginning of the universe, type 2.

If she was the universe’s creator, indicating that her existence predates it, type 1.

 

[Rikimarox2]

If she was created with the beginning of the universe, type 2.

She was created with the beginning of the universe, although she also created universes herself.

If she was the universe’s creator, indicating that her existence predates it, type 1.

Though, if a conceptual being exists that predates the universe, would they be type 1?

 

[KLOL506]

She was created with the beginning of the universe, although she also created universes herself.

Is she bound to the universe? Will she cease to exist if said universe dies? If so, Type 2.

Though, if a conceptual being exists that predates the universe, would they be type 1?

Normally that'd indicate they're not unbound by that reality, yes.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

She was created with the beginning of the universe, although she also created universes herself.

Then she’s type 2.

Though, if a conceptual being exists that predates the universe, would they be type 1?

Yes, they would be type 1.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Is she bound to the universe? Will she cease to exist if said universe dies? If so, Type 2.

There's absolutely nothing indicating that she's bound to the universe. She even wants to destroy the dudes (who are also concepts) who created the universe and herself.

Normally that'd indicate they're not unbound by that reality, yes.

I assume you meant bound, in which case, hell yes. I'll take those tbh.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Actually, not sure if this helps, but she wasn't necessarily created for the universe.

So, two beings fought, darkness and light, and caused the big bang. There were some shards of the two beings left and were combined and made a bunch of conceptual gods, with this God being one of them.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Bumpty

 

[Fixxed]

If the concept is already exist before the universe, i think it fine for type 1. Because that concept not need the reality (universe) to exist, it self-evident by predate the universe it self

 

[Rikimarox2]

If the concept is already exist before the universe, i think it fine for type 1. Because that concept not need the reality (universe) to exist, it self-evident by predate the universe it self

Some characters existed before the universe, but the God I'm talking about was created from shards of those gods who predated the universe. I assume that's enough or nah?

 

[Fixxed]

Some characters existed before the universe, but the God I'm talking about was created from shards of those gods who predated the universe. I assume that's enough or nah?

If that god is a literal concept and still predate reality then yes

 

[Rikimarox2]

If that god is a literal concept and still predate reality then yes

She is a literal concept, but she doesn't predate reality. As the type 1 conceptual beings fought and created the universe, a few shards of them left when they fought, and those combined to make her at the beginning of the universe.

She also is kind of comparable to them, so it at least shows she can affect type 1 concepts.

 

[Fixxed]

She is a literal concept, but she doesn't predate reality. As the type 1 conceptual beings fought and created the universe, a few shards of them left when they fought, and those combined to make her at the beginning of the universe.

She also is kind of comparable to them, so it at least shows she can affect type 1 concepts.

So her concept is comparable with the concept that predate reality?? Then it can type 1

 

[Rikimarox2]

I know it's a bit late to bump this, but I found some other interesting things:

So... The conceptual god existed in the beginning of the universe, and created other universes, yes? Well, as it turns out, these "universes" that she helped create were also timelines. Additionally, it was also stated that she was more powerful than a dude who was the literal concept of time. And, well, she was originally a small shard from a being who predated literally everything, including time, concepts, etc...

Will this alone be enough for Type 1, or nah? Since the concept of time exists in the verse, I thought it would be enough since apparently if it exists, that means it's a type 1.

 

[azontr]

I know it's a bit late to bump this, but I found some other interesting things:

So... The conceptual god existed in the beginning of the universe, and created other universes, yes? Well, as it turns out, these "universes" that she helped create were also timelines. Additionally, it was also stated that she was more powerful than a dude who was the literal concept of time. And, well, she was originally a small shard from a being who predated literally everything, including time, concepts, etc...

Will this alone be enough for Type 1, or nah? Since the concept of time exists in the verse, I thought it would be enough since apparently if it exists, that means it's a type 1.

If she's a shard of someone who predates time and concepts then she would in turn be a Type 1 Concept, yes.

 

[azontr]

Though I'd ask if her being a "shard" of this alleged person means she retains part of his properties/abilities in story?

 

[Rikimarox2]

Though I'd ask if her being a "shard" of this alleged person means she retains part of his properties/abilities in story?

I mean, said being has literally every single ability in the verse, so technically, she does retain some of it, yes. The concept of life is just a shard of him, as well as concept of everything else.

 

[azontr]

I mean, said being has literally every single ability in the verse, so technically, she does retain some of it, yes. The concept of life is just a shard of him, as well as concept of everything else.

K. Assuming the concept which she embodies originates from this alleged person, then, yes, it would be Type 1.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Should be relatively simple.

Basically, the character was stated to be a conceptual God, existing at the beginning of the universe. They were the concept of life, and conceptualized it and created life. It was also stated if the God was to die, anything related to the concept of life would disappear.

So I gotta ask, since she was a concept God before even life existed and she was the literal concept of life, and if she died anything that lives ceases to exist, would this be enough for type 1 concept, or is it just type 2?

No

 

[donegbe]

No

Your "no" don't stand here buddy

 

[Rikimarox2]

Kind of a necro rn, but I wanted to ask another thing:

If a concept was stated to be the "origin of all things", would that qualify for Type 1? Or would it still be Type 2? I recall seeing some pages with Concept Manip with a justification similar to this.

 

[ImmortalDread]

More context is preferred but that's type 2.

 

[azontr]

No, that would be Type 1.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Dang, present context and we can decide, Azontr.

 

[azontr]

I don't have the context Riki does

 

[ImmortalDread]

Yet, u got nerves to say its type 1, mf.