Is Johan an extraordinary genius?

[LegendariumOfLies]

is another monster a sequel?

Yep. Its a Light Novel

 

[RoggerReggor]

I am currently on my break from social media, but I do check emails for stuff, and as I have enabled notifs, I can see these at the least, but my activity will be less nonetheless.

- no offense, but thats obvious. Knowing how to use psychological weaknesses and personal motivations against someone is exactly how manipulation works. Manipulating someone without these devices would just be mind control.
Finding those weaknesses, then finding the right moves to make someone your puppet is the hard part, which Johan manages to do on a massive scale and with such ease.

I had nothing with anything like that, I just raised my stuff about the "manipulate anyone" part. Manipulating anyone would be kind of impossible if he cannot find their weaknesses. Take for example, Johan manipulated an orphan, he used the loneliness of the orphan as a tool to manipulate him. Not only that, but he knew three things:
1. The orphan's mother had long left him, and the orphan was also feeling lonely, and was constantly watching out for his mother.
2. The orphan was highly gullible and was given false hopes by the society of his mother ever coming back.
3. The orphan had high amounts of motivations for stuff and could break easily upon realizing how much his life valued to others.
Then, Johan took the form of a woman, who could be looking much more friendly to the orphan. Now, he goes to him and talks about one of the tragedies of his life, giving the orphan an existential crisis. He even directed the orphan towards an area where there were a ton of prostitution activities, a place where many children could be bred, and probably the worst area for children to be at.

The orphan realizes his existential hollowness and realizes the bitter truth of his mother never coming back, having thoughts of him never being wanted. The orphan decides to take his own life.

But now, what would happen if the orphan wasn't planted with the seeds of the loneliness, or anything trivial like what was supposed to have happened.

He even manipulated Richard using government urgencies. Yes, finding the right moves is a difficult part, but the much more difficult part for him is execution.

He cannot manipulate "anyone", he can only manipulate those with the psychological, emotional or any kind of supportive weaknesses, that was my point. I appreciate the brilliant of Johan's tactics already.

- same as before. He would manipulates everysingle event and people at time to put himself in a position of power, then make the world destroy itself. Thats exactly what makes this feat nothing short of extraordinary and unrealistic. I can't imagine humans being capable of that, unless they can read others minds and predict the future.

There are real-life people who have rose to high ranks of power from being basically nobodies using their leadership alone and not even proper manipulation, I have already highlighted that. It would be unrealistic only with an explained process, something which is impossible to know because he himself didn't do it.

- No, Tenmma doesn't even try to prove he's innocent at first, because there's no way he can prove that when the culprit manages to hide his existence so well not even the police consider him to be real. it takes far more than a genius to erase your traces, while they kill a whole citiy, make children kill themselves, manipulate whole underworld factions, manipulate serial killers etc. Only people Johan wanted to know about his existence would know, either because he wanted to torment them or because he didn't care because he would kill them later.

Absolute gore ahead, only see if you don't have sensitivity to puking on basically anything gory. You can read up to some extent, before I put a warning though.

Spoiler: Read at your own risk - The Ant Hills Cult Leader

In the later 1900s, there was a guy named Roch Thériault (you can read the linked Wikipedia page for information). Now, in my opinion, he was one of the most charismatic and manipulative people of all time, and importantly, he was a real person.

Roch Thériault was the leader of a cult, which was first advertised to be a social awareness campaign but soon turned to a cult. He was responsible for destroying lives. He was a highly charismatic person. A lot of females were also in the cult with him. He cheated on his wife multiple times. He used to attack the psychological weaknesses of all the people around him. The females around him craved for his attention, and a lot of people saw him as a god.

However, it wasn't a simpleton average 1900s "Your god is crap, I am better" cult, but an absolutely gruesome cult. Roch was a very psychopathic person. Even as an unlicensed "doctor", he used to perform surgeries to treat shortly occurring illness of his cult members, which often resulted into chronic disorders in them. He used to subject his female followers to all kinds of abuse and violence, and the male followers as well. He used to see himself as the absolute, was a highly narcissistic individual, and highly manipulative.

He manipulated his cult members to the point where they thought that the abuse they were subjected to was normal. He used all kinds of demoralization, fallacies, deception and fabrication to blind them. The females in his cult were so obsessed with him, that even after the abuse, they all still craved his attention, and this was all while he was married for the second time (his first marriage was broke off) and was cheating on his then wife.

Now, he was on a run for many years. Even when he had so many victims, he was never arrested for a long time. His victims never reported it to the police, such was his level of manipulation and charisma.

GORY PART NOW (YOU CAN SKIP IT)
Now, if you want to know the level of abuse, violence, and the injuries caused to them:

1. He was performing surgeries on people on a daily basis. He saw himself as a doctor even when he wasn't one, and he used to recklessly tear through body parts of his members.
2. He beat a person so much that their intestines were shredded to pieces.
3. He cut arms of people and got his own son's genitals cut. He used to break people's legs with hammers by continuously attacking them while they screamed in agony.
4. Once, a female member was beaten so much that her uterus fell out of her genital openings, he punched her uterus back in, of course, this injured her much more.
5. He used to regularly torture people by attacking the sensitive parts of all sorts repeatedly.
6. He was regularly involved in violence where the absolute forms of violence for us were normal there, and the true violence was of extremely high levels.

Even after all of this stuff, he was convicted for a single killing, and all the evidence of his previous victims were cleared. This is similar to the level of Johan, where he was detained when one of his victims spoke up, and when Tenma finally moralized them. Of course, I am not saying this guy compares to Johan (Johan is times better), but only illustrating an example of how killers can escape detectives and police and can never be found out for a large amount of time. This guy was known by the police, even suspicious, but the truth was that he used the fact that there were many cults already and used the fact that he was forming an awareness organization before.

-same as before. The police had no proof Johan even existed, much less was guilty.

This is a good feat, but again, nothing unrealistic.

To prove it, you will need to explain the feat with enough evidence of it being unrealistic.

And again, anything which can be logically explained and doesn't involve higher than human characteristics in it wouldn't be unrealistic.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Manipulating numerous people isn't hard, manipulating numerous events through the manipulation of people isn't hard.

What Johan does is hard. I am particularly talking about a highly exaggerated "manipulated anyone" thing in the message.

is another monster a sequel?

It is a kind of an investigative report, where some in-between the arc feats and original feats are investigated.

It's written like Death Note "file" novels and you would feel like you are reading a police record at some times, a good experience of course.

It's a good hint book to get details on Johan's feats.

 

[Arkenis]

What Johan does is hard. I am particularly talking about a highly exaggerated "manipulated anyone" thing in the message.

Yeah manipulation can be hard for the average person, but a genius who is trying and is educated/knowledgeable on human emotions, its going to be easier, especially when its people below them in intelligence.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Yeah manipulation can be hard for the average person, but a genius who is trying and is educated/knowledgeable on human emotions, its going to be easier, especially when its people below them in intelligence.

He manipulated Generals, World Leaders, and one of the Greatest Detectives in the BKA.

 

[Arkenis]

He manipulated Generals, World Leaders, and one of the Greatest Detectives in the BKA.

And most of these are above average individuals who aren't experts/talented in the manipulation of human emotions. They can even be geniuses but since they aren't geniuses in a specific field it honestly doesn't matter.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

talented in the manipulation of human emotions

Eh Lunge and Nina have some feats. Not as impressive, but its there.

They can even be geniuses but since they aren't geniuses in a specific field it honestly doesn't matter.

I would argue Lunge's memory should be taken into account.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Yeah manipulation can be hard for the average person, but a genius who is trying and is educated/knowledgeable on human emotions, its going to be easier, especially when its people below them in intelligence.

I would agree, but what I want to say is that Johan manipulates much better than what you would expect from just someone who is educated/knowledgeable on human emotions.
His ability to find tactics for manipulation are very good, though nothing too much for a human and not even too unrealistic. Johan has realistic emotional intelligence, and he just does it better than normal humans, and it can logically be explained with even the normal abilities given to normal humans (what I mean is that Johan's perception is still based of facial movements reading and he's not like Patrick Jane who reads micromovements which requires straight up high vision).

He manipulated Generals, World Leaders, and one of the Greatest Detectives in the BKA.

A victim of manipulation doesn't matter. It would be just worse to assume that they would be resistant to even the conventional forms of manipulation.

This is my own analysis on "Resistances on Manipulation".

Sometimes in fiction, complete control over the target is not always guaranteed, this can be due to the inability of the manipulator or by a large amount of resistance which can be shown by the target either actively or passively. A target can possess certain resistances such as stubbornness, will power, self-awareness, high amounts of confirmed knowledge, high emotional stability, etc. which can be used to resist the methods used by the manipulator. The manipulator tries to manipulate the victim but is unable to bypass this resistance, resulting in a failure of manipulation. It is important to note that if a victim is unable to be manipulated by a manipulator, another manipulator may be able to manipulate the same victim, as the latter has higher ability of certain manipulation which can be used against the victim.

So yes, unless the proper processing of resistances shown by the target are well explained by you, making these claims probably wouldn't get us anywhere.