Is Ganondorfs High 5-A feat legit?

[Dust_Collector]

So during the Wind Waker Ganondorf creates an endless night as a result of the curse he placed upon the land. It was decided the most logical explanation was that he was using telekinesis to stop the planets rotation to create this endless night which garnered him and several others 5-C ratings at the time even though it wasn't stated or implied to be done via TK. Later down the line we upgraded that even further to High 5-A due to Ganondorf making it night around his fortress whenever Link approaches it, with us assuming once again that he was using Telekinesis to rotate the entire planet. It was never explicitly stated to be either some kind of time manipulation nor telekinesis but we ended up going with the latter without much discussion.

I've been having doubts about this being telekinesis recently, I looked back at previous threads to see what the reasoning behind this was but the best reasoning I found was that because it wasn't time stop then it's telekinesis, even though it doesn't have to be time stop but just some form of time manipulation that makes it endlessly night/turns day to night. If most people think that it's fine to assume telekinetic shenanigans in this case then that's cool, I'd be fine with a decent explanation that puts my doubts to rest.

 

[TriforcePower1]

As I said before, it's unlikely to be time manipulation for the main fact that he technically also stops time, but nothing is actually affected by this time stop.

Another reason is that if it was time manip, he would just "fast forward" time and then stop it, but here we see the planet accelerating and decelerating as if it was moved by an external force.

Should also be noted that the only time Ganon uses a time related ability he did so with the power of the dark trident, which also leaves big black clouds in the sky iirc, while he has already shown in BOTW to be capable of using his TK to move celestial objects (Calamity is just Ganon's hatred. It's his purest incarnation, but it doesn't add anything to his own power, it's just his "soul").

It's true that, unless I remember wrong, it's never stated to be TK (iirc it's stated to be a curse he placed), but it certainly needs less assumptions than time manipulation.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I too have problems with this, specially since it is indeed stated to be a curse, not something he can do whenever. And while the Forsaken Fortress stuff points out to not be a one time thing... Why does he make it day again when Link leaves? He has no reason to do this. This also happens in Ocarina of Time.

As such, what I personally believe is that Ganon is simply covering the area around the Fortress (Castle Town in OoT) in darkness and that's it, but with prep, can expand the curse to cover the planet.

However, this is my headcanon, and is not more supported than TK other than flimsy evidence. And furthermore, I believe the King of Red Lions also states that literally morning can not come, so there is that too.

As such, via occam's razor, the escenario with less assumptions (although a big one in and on itself, imo) is that he simply stops and/or moves the planet.

Edit: Also, the spell is broken when Link gets Din's Sphere (if I remember correctly), so I think Ganon wasn't forcibly stopping the planet either, simply setting up a spell. Which would validate the 5-C... Just not combat applicable. But again, this are assumptions on my part to support my headcanon, and is not stated to be the case in the game.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I honestly do think the High 5-A is pretty iffy, and that 5-C assuming he's stopping the planet's rotation is likely far more safe, considering I don't believe the reasoning we currently have for High 5-A is ever stated or implied (Ganon rotating the planet whenever Link gets close).

 

[Dust_Collector]

Bump

@Azzy I'm not even sure about 5-C, since there was nothing implied he used telekinesis to stop the planets rotation either.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Bump

 

[Dust_Collector]

Bump

 

[Dust_Collector]

Bump

 

[Fireblast966]

I agree that this feat is vague. Ganondorf with ToP should be around 5B though based on this description for Calamity Ganon.

"The ghost of King Rhoam told you that Hyrule is on the brink of annihilation.

Princess Zelda is currently fighting to contain Calamity Ganon inside Hyrule Castle, but her power cannot keep him at bay forever.
Eventually, Ganon will regain his full strength and destroy the world. Your ultimate task is to aid Princess Zelda in defeating Ganon before that can happen."
Since normal Ganondorf should be superior or atleast compareable to Calamity(since Calamity doesn't have the ToP), he should probably be At least 5B likely High 5A or something like that.

A lot of Pokemon and Smash verse gods got their AP through descriptions like trophys or Pokedex so this should be valid.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Bump
@Azzy I'm not even sure about 5-C, since there was nothing implied he used telekinesis to stop the planets rotation either.

This is true. It only states it's a curse.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Calamity is 5-A, and ToP would most likely scale to it if WW Ganon's feat is considered not legit.

 

[Dark649]

I will say that a Triforce of Piece should be easily be: At least 5-B, likely 5-A or just 5-A as superior to Majora casual feat while attached to an host and comparable to Calamity Ganon 5-A feat.

 

[TriforcePower1]

All of this is assuming the High 5-A feat isn't legit.

 

[Dark649]

Yes.

 

[Fireblast966]

What was Calamitys 5-A feat if I may ask?

 

[Dust_Collector]

Moving the moon at very high speeds.

 

[Fireblast966]

Thanks for the answer. When has he done that though? Is there a clip to this?

 

[Dark649]

Here.

 

[Fireblast966]

Thank you very much.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I will say that a Triforce of Piece should be easily be: At least 5-B, likely 5-A or just 5-A as superior to Majora casual feat while attached to an host and comparable to Calamity Ganon 5-A feat.

Majora is superior to the Triforce of Courage. Said piece was 100% inconsequential to it during the events of MM. And yes, Young Link had it during the game.

Edit: Proof here of Young Link's possession of the ToC.

 

[Dark649]

Link never used the triforce of courage power in the game, he also never properly fought Majora until the end of the game, only what happened was that Skull Kid rode Epona, then turned Link into a Deku via hax and when they met again, he only needed to stun him to let him drop the Ocarina.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

The fact that he had it, yet it did nothing, is enough proof imo.

BTW, Majora's transmutation includes soul-hax, which the ToC protects against. Majora bypassed that.

 

[Dark649]

Transmutation is not evil magic nor mind control, its not listed either.

 

[TriforcePower1]

>Majora's soul hax transmutates

>ToC makes the user resist soul hax via transmutation.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Triforce

Twilight Princess says hi.

@Dark

Just need to look at any Link's profile with ToC.

 

[Dark649]

Link base transmutation resistance from the Lost Wood was bypassed, not the Triforce one as it was not seen activating in his hand.

 

[TriforcePower1]

He's capable of maintaining human form only with the MS.

 

[Dark649]

Still they should be far superior to Levias anyway.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Dark

Precisely. It proves just how inconsequential it is to Majora.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

He's capable of maintaining human form only with the MS.

Wolf Form.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Still they should be far superior to Levias anyway.

For that I remain neutral. But in the case of Majora, I don't agree.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Bump

 

[Dust_Collector]

Bomp

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

What is the current status of this discussion? If there is going to be a downgrade, plz at most be at 5-A so I can match Ocarina's and Chrono Trigger's Heroes of time.

P.S. What if Chrono Trigger was in the Zelda timeline instead of Ocarina?

 

[Dark649]

Unfortunately they want to downgrade them to at least High 6-A, likely far higher.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Darth Vader NO!-2

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I mean, if the Calamity feat is legit, then they would remain 5-A. It's just this particular feat is dubious.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I mean, if the Calamity feat is legit, then they would remain 5-A. It's just this particular feat is dubious.

I don't think Calamity Ganon's moon moving feat is even a feat. It was a misrepresentation of information when the game had just come out and barely anyone had a Switch.

The speed of the moon is its natural speed in-game, because in-game time passes ridiculously faster than real life time.

People also assumed Calamity Ganon was moving the Blood Moon in the first place, which the game makes clear isn't the case. He's linked to the cause of the Blood Moon, but not its movement. The latter wouldn't even make sense, since his power explicitly rises to its peak under the hour of the Blood Moon and lets all slain enemies return to life. There would be no reason for the blood moon to ever not be present.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

 

[Fireblast966]

I mean the "Destroy Ganon" event describes how Ganon will destroy the world(not just Hyrule)

Eventually, Ganon will regain his full strength and destroy the world. Your ultimate task is to aid Princess Zelda in defeating Ganon before that can happen."


I have said it again but a lot of characters on this site got their AP through description alone (example Reshiram from Pokedex, Master Hand from trophy description). If we treat descriptions as valid then Ganon should warrant atleast a 5-B rating possibly higher.