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Invincible TV Show: AP/Speed Revisions, Black Hole and Tier 4 feats.

Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
I don't think Mark can holding back his durability
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You very much can. Or else the sidekick of Nightwing would've broken his hands upon punching him or something lol. Also, physical durability grows proportional to Striking Strength. Harder you punch, more you can tank.

Also, Mark can just choose to not brace for hits which would also affect his durability.
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
so Anissa should easily be Low 6-B.
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I wouldn't be so sure tbh.
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
But the problem is not with the Viltrumites, but with all the other non-Viltrumite characters who were able to harm Mark.
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I mean, Allen could casually tank Anissa's hits and draw blood from her with his attacks, so he should downscale from 6-B. Battle Beast messed up Mark really bad so he should downscale from 6-B as well. Immortal should downscale from Mark, as we have a clear statement that Mark is superior to him.
 
Although it was never explicitly stated that Mark became stronger, he went from being effortlessly stomped by Omni-Man, having his punches completely tanked, to being able to compete with people who can meaningfully hurt Nolan, to declaring himself to be stronger than the Immortal, despite the fact that the latter was able to hurt Nolan with his punches.

There's also the fact of a bunch of fodder heroes and villains that have no business scaling from Omni-Man in the first season, makes me think Season 1 Mark being Low 6-B would be a bad idea.
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
We actually see Omni-Man being pretty close to the event horizon, and a black hole the size shown there would have a very strong gravitational pull, especially since he was carrying that entire spaceship. So no it's absolutely calcable, as we don't count his asteroid statment as a ls feat
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? There's nothing to scale the distance or size of the Black Hole just looking at the pictures.
 
Does the "Getting stronger with age" statement not exist in the show ?
I mean, even if it didn't it just would make sense, Mark for obvious reasons doesn't scale to Omni-Man at all in Season 1
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
I don't think Mark can holding back his durability so Anissa should easily be Low 6-B. But the problem is not with the Viltrumites, but with all the other non-Viltrumite characters who were able to harm Mark. Almost all the characters in the show will be Low 6-B and MFTL+ via downscaling with the Viltrumites.
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They're obviously not going that fast all the time, if they did this would happen every time:

Villains and other superheroes keeping up would be Relativistic at most
 
Dinozxd said:
We don't really know if Anissa was outclassing a holding back Mark or not, as it's implied that the only time he went all out was in the Thraxa fight and aganist Angstrom. Though Anissa should still at least scale to other Viltrumites in terms of AP.
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I think Mark wasn't holding back. He wanted to kill Anissa after she threatened Amber
 
Therefir said:
Although it was never explicitly stated that Mark became stronger, he went from being effortlessly stomped by Omni-Man, having his punches completely tanked, to being able to compete with people who can meaningfully hurt Nolan, to declaring himself to be stronger than the Immortal, despite the fact that the latter was able to hurt Nolan with his punches.

There's also the fact of a bunch of fodder heroes and villains that have no business scaling from Omni-Man in the first season, makes me think Season 1 Mark being Low 6-B would be a bad idea.
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Plus iirc due to Viltrumite DNA's adaptability they can grow stronger after a significant ass-beating so long as they're not permanently debilitated
(I know I'm referring to comics canon technically, but changes between it and the animated series seem largely to be in regards to plot restructuring and characters' demographics, not adjustments to the power system(s))
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
I think Mark wasn't holding back. He wanted to kill Anissa after she threatened Amber
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He was certainly not holding back in the conventional sense.

That being said, the series strikes a difference between Mark and himself when he's letting his anger get the better of him. Unlike other times, he did not seem balls-to-the-walls angry, which is when he's at his strongest. It's established in the next episode, which takes place barely hours later, that Mark tries very hard to not go wild with rage.
 
SheevShezarrine said:
Plus iirc due to Viltrumite DNA's adaptability they can grow stronger after a significant ass-beating so long as they're not permanently debilitated
(I know I'm referring to comics canon technically, but changes between it and the animated series seem largely to be in regards to plot restructuring and characters' demographics, not adjustments to the power system(s))
Click to expand...
That's never stated anywhere. The only character who has anything remotely similar is Allen
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Yes we do. We have Omni-Man and the spaceship for reference, as well as pixel curvature scaling for the black hole.
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No we don't, Omni-Man and the spaceship are in front of the Black Hole by an unknown distance. You can't use curvature scaling if you don't know the actual size of the Black Hole.
 
Therefir said:
Although it was never explicitly stated that Mark became stronger, he went from being effortlessly stomped by Omni-Man, having his punches completely tanked, to being able to compete with people who can meaningfully hurt Nolan, to declaring himself to be stronger than the Immortal, despite the fact that the latter was able to hurt Nolan with his punches.

There's also the fact of a bunch of fodder heroes and villains that have no business scaling from Omni-Man in the first season, makes me think Season 1 Mark being Low 6-B would be a bad idea.
Click to expand...
Mark made Nolan bleed during their fight when he was enraged. Nolan told Mark on Thraxa that he needed to stop holding back like he usually does on Earth. This means that Mark has always been Low 6-B, and this AP is used by Mark when he stops holding back due to anger (like against Omni-Man,
the Flaxans, Angstrom Levy, and the group of villains hired by Machine Head) or by purpose (like against the Viltrumite woman).


Tahoy49574 said:
They're obviously not going that fast all the time, if they did this would happen every time:

Villains and other superheroes keeping up would be Relativistic at most
Click to expand...

They're not always MFTL+ in travel speed yeah, because they have to accelerate to reach their maximum speed and on Earth they don't do it to avoid destroying cities like Omni-Man did on Flaxa. But in terms of speed of reactions and combat they always are.
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
They're not always MFTL+ in travel speed yeah, because they have to accelerate to reach their maximum speed and on Earth they don't do it to avoid destroying cities like Omni-Man did on Flaxa. But in terms of speed of reactions and combat they always are.
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Pretty sure moving their fists at that speed would have the same effect
 
Therefir said:
No we don't, Omni-Man and the spaceship are in front of the Black Hole by an unknown distance. You can't use curvature scaling if you don't know the actual size of the Black Hole.
Click to expand...
The curvature scaling would be done by comparing the size of the Black Hole to the size of Omni Man and the spaceship he carries. While we don't have the distance stated, this can all be calcable, but eh whatever. I'll try to calc it myself and you could evaluate it when I do it
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
The curvature scaling would be done by comparing the size of the Black Hole to the size of Omni Man and the spaceship he carries. While we don't have the distance stated, this can all be calcable, but eh whatever. I'll try to calc it myself and you could evaluate it when I do it
Click to expand...
Can you calculate this while you're at it ? 🙏
a0SpcocSa-2FK75ZwJ7r69nRZd64YNp2EFMFVl74l1nBFpy48OOTkP2jG0UREITGN3wg1ra017V3VhXJjGZrX3FjjKOGQnEj9ig79IrZ98ePkVw9GPB4y6B6Sk0H9QwH4JaLgw672g=s1600
 
Tahoy49574 said:
Pretty sure moving their fists at that speed would have the same effect
Click to expand...
Omni Man's fists did not have this effect on the Flaxan planet and he had no reason to hold back, so no, and there are still their reaction speeds which are always mftl+ too.
 
About the speed of the verse, I don't think the "Anissa moving quicker than Nolan" statement should be taken at face value to scale Anissa to MFTL+ speeds, as Nolan never moved at his peak speed on earth to not cause destruction, and nobody knows his real peak speed because of that.
 
Dinozxd said:
About the speed of the verse, I don't think the "Anissa moving quicker than Nolan" statement should be taken at face value to scale Anissa to MFTL+ speeds, as Nolan never moved at his peak speed on earth to not cause destruction, and nobody knows his real peak speed because of that.
Click to expand...
An addition to this, I saw this comment under a calculation of Mark's speed. I don't exactly remember the scene but if this is correct, then Anissa should scale to it as she could land a hit on Allen in their confrontation.

Nobody should scale to Nolan's MFTL+ calc other than him for now as we never really saw him using his speed in a place he wasn't scared of destroying.
 
I agree with Therefir regarding Nolan being close to the Black Hole. Even if that was a Stellar massed black hole and he was close to the Event Horizon, I doubt it would be that impressive compared to existing feats, and I'm not sure how that would even be calculated and quantified. At least I am assuming people are hoping they can get AP or something out of it.

I am pretty sure a character that is >> Low 6-B would be more than able to withstand a difference of tens of thousands of G over the length of their body. So it's a nothing burger of a feat IMO.

As for the other scaling, it's been some time since I watched Season 2 of Invincible, but I feel like Mark would at best downscale into High 6-C+ based on the context of the Thraxia fight.

I don't agree with giving someone a separate tier/key of them holding back. You don't get thousands of times weaker and squishier by restraining yourself. That is just one of Mark's weaknesses that obviously don't apply when he is bloodlusted, or just pushed far enough.
 
Dinozxd said:
About the speed of the verse, I don't think the "Anissa moving quicker than Nolan" statement should be taken at face value to scale Anissa to MFTL+ speeds, as Nolan never moved at his peak speed on earth to not cause destruction, and nobody knows his real peak speed because of that.
Click to expand...
Anissa scales to Mark and Allen who are mftl+ since S1 as I prove in the OP, and Omni Man only retains his travel speed to not destroy the Earth, not his combat and reaction speed.
Tahoy49574 said:
They didn't have that effect because he wasn't moving them that fast
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To think that is to think that Omni Man was holding back against the flaxans, which makes no sense because he destroyed their cities with his travel speed. This just proves that the destruction produced by high speeds does not apply to combat speed in Invincible. You also forget Omni Man's reaction speed is always mftl+ because he has not proven to be able to reduce it and even if he did he has no reason to do so during a fight, whether he is on Earth or not.

Dinozxd said:
Nobody should scale to Nolan's MFTL+ calc other than him for now as we never really saw him using his speed in a place he wasn't scared of destroying.
Click to expand...
Every character who has faced Nolan and who are a threat to him are mftl+. Nolan's reaction and combat speeds are always as fast.
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
This just proves that the destruction produced by high speeds does not apply to combat speed in Invincible.
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That doesn't make any sense at all, his body physically moving through the air causes that but not his punches also traveling that fast ?

Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
You also forget Omni Man's reaction speed is always mftl+ because he has not proven to be able to reduce it and even if he did he has no reason to do so during a fight, whether he is on Earth or not.
Click to expand...
And this is my main problem with separating the TV and Comic, for all intents and purposes they're equivalent.

Their reflexes aren't always MFTL+, it's proportionate to how fast they're actively going

8490759-2.png

Don't expect this to ever be explained in the show since they're also far looser with the power levels there lol
 
Cropfist said:
Yes but it's not used for whatever reason
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You'd expect a this verse to get more attention but apparently not 😔

In fact, looking through the pages I found a Small Planet level Tech Jacket calc that because of one detail couldn't be used. Someone should redo it since Tech Jacket is a pretty important piece of scaling for the viltrumites. He's also got a Class P lifting strength feat alongside the viltrumites that hasn't been revised yet, in fact, he should flat out scale to viltrumites, why is he still High 6-C ? Same for Oliver and Volcanic-Titanium armor Robot

Overall, it needs a hefty CRT
 
Tahoy49574 said:
That doesn't make any sense at all, his body physically moving through the air causes that but not his punches also traveling that fast ?
Click to expand...
This is common in fiction and is accepted on the wiki. Characters like Superman and Homelander make sonic booms while flying but do none when hitting, yet they are superior to Transonic in combat speed.
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
This is common in fiction and is accepted on the wiki. Characters like Superman and Homelander make sonic booms while flying but do none when hitting, yet they are superior to Transonic in combat speed.
Click to expand...
Omni Man's flight speed should scale to reactions, as otherwise he'd not react in time and crash into a star/black hole or whatever. This is pretty much true for everyone but travel speed isn't slower than reaction speed for pretty much anyone

He could also easily react to Red Rush's punches
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
reactions, as otherwise he'd not react in time and crash into a star/black hole or whatever.
Click to expand...
That's not a justification per our speed page. Tv Allen stopping right before Invincible hits him or Mark about to punch him are examples of valid flight-to-combat speed scaling instances.
 
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