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Invincible TV Show: AP/Speed Revisions, Black Hole and Tier 4 feats.

azontr said:
To be completely 100% fair, Nolan then proceeds to tank a full force punch from Mark without even budging an inch and even mocks him for how weak it was.
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To add to this, Nolan is completely eating Mark's punches in that same sequence. That entire fight repeatedly shows that a conflicted and held back Nolan effortlessly overpowers Mark in season 1—even when he's angry, which is when he's at his strongest

Also, I noticed that the fact that Mark's full power is based on his rage hasn't been mentioned. Whereas previously the Immortal out-performed an enraged Mark against a battle-damaged Nolan on the same day, Mark in season 2 episode 5 is stronger than him even without his rage boosting him
 
Why are we pretending like scaling to Omni-mans Low 6-B feat mean their equal to him? Omni-Man did the feat super casually just by flying. Just let everyone who has caused notable damage to Omni-Man scale to that value, while Omni-Man himself should scale above it by an unknown degree.
 
azontr said:
I don't think he's weak enough to warrant that kind of downscale. He fought on par with Thula whose certainly comparable to Nolan, so.
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how is she comparable to Nolan? She got smacked around, and every time Nolan did something to her, she'd get smacked up. He literally curbstomps her with his own elbow dawg.

Omni-man is like >~ Thula and most viltrumites. He's stronger, but they downscale
 
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There's been an entire discussion about Thula's scaling the page before this one. All my points and the points of others have been discussed there— not planning to rehash the debate.
 
while viltrumites get stronger with age, i dont recall a lot of time passing to justify mark getting stronger, so i think we could just have a single key and then adding that when he stopped holding back he managed to fight against viltrumites alongside nolan, it makes no sense to hold thula or mark far below his level IMO

i think is worth nothing that despite being equally strong, viltrumites seem to be "fragile" enough that they can seriously wound if not one shot each other with lucky hits and such, like Lucan's obviously on Nolan's level and yet he managed to slice his stomach open and then impale him with a rocky spike, or Nolan and Vidor beating each other up until Nolan managed to punch both sides of his head at once and crush his skull

also worth nothing that during the fight, there is a quick sequence where the two fights start jumping between each other, and during that, Mark and Nolan switch opponents and they both hurt Vidor and Thula, but then Vidor headbutts Mark and Thula slices someone off screen, i think the implication is that it was Nolan

i think the fight makes it clear that bloodlusted mark is strong enough to be a threat to viltrumites on Nolan's level

moving on

Allen just needs a calc for that

Nolan wasn't inside of the black hole's event horizon, just hovering far away above the accression disk, so i'm pretty sure he wasn't significantly affected by it's pull, otherwise the ship he saved wouldn't probably been destroyed before he pushed them

I can see why why Q^2 thought it wasn't a direct star feat, the laser seem to be a piercing beam that doesn't explode or anything, and the star seemed to collapse unto itself before exploding, kinda like a supernova, so it was like the beam pierced and destabilized it's core

not sure if that's how supernovas work though or anything, so i think is fine to put it as star level
 
Thelastmlg said:
not sure if that's how supernovas work though or anything
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That's how one type of Supernova works. To quote NASA
At some point in a massive star's life, the center of the star has been converted to iron and nuclear fusion in the core is no longer an exothermal process. Nuclear fusion ceases and, without this source of thermal pressure, gravity, exerting its inexorable pull on the star, seems to be winning the battle. The star continues its collapse. Then a strange reaction takes place during which electrons and protons are pushed so close together that they merge to become neutrons, releasing energy in the form of neutrinos. There is no available space between the neutrons: they are supported by neutron degenerate pressure. This halts the gravitational collapse and the outer, more tenuous stellar material 'bounces' upon hitting the degenerate core, much like a wave hitting a sea wall bounces back on itself. The conversion of the central core to neutrons releases 1051 ergs of neutron binding potential energy, and after the bounce, the outer layers of the star are violently ejected into the ISM.

If the star starts with between 5 and 12 times the mass of our sun, the neutron degeneracy pressure in the core is thought to be able to withstand the gravitational pressure of the star remaining after the supernova explosion. In this case, a neutron star is left in the center of the SNR. If the neutron star is rotating, it may become a pulsar, emitting radiation in a beam which sweeps the earth as the pulsar rotates. If the star is massive enough, even neutron degenerate pressure will not be able to hold up against gravitational collapse, and the remains continue to be squeezed inward by gravity, forrming a singularity, or black hole.
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So a Type II will first implode and then it will explode.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
That's how one type of Supernova works. To quote NASA

So a Type II will first implode and then it will explode.
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i wasn’t refereing to the imploding and exploding, i was referring to the possibility that the laser pierced theough the star’s core and destabilized it, and if that can force a supernova
 
I agree with the laser star destryoing feat being 4-C. It's pretty blatant, though I don't think anyone scales to it from what I remember

Omni-Man's Black Hole feat need to be calced. He gets pretty close to the event horizon too which would make him even stronger likely

Allen and by extention Season 1 Mark (as he fought Allen pretty equally before his zenkai) should both be MFTL+ since Allen regularly travels to Earth from the planet of the coalition mistaking it for Urath

I don't agree to Rex scaling to Mark though. He sent the Octoboss flying pretty effortlessly and he wasn't going all out either, so Rex wouldn't scale to that. Rex should get a far higher rating for that instead
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Omni-Man's Black Hole feat need to be calced. He gets pretty close to the event horizon too which would make him even stronger likely
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We don't know how big the black hole is or how close they were to the event horizon, but technically all Omni-Man needs to do is just escape the accretion disk's pulling (which, once again depends on how fast the Black Hole is spinning, something impossible to know), FTL speed is not even required for that.

I don't think this is something that can be calculated with the little information that we have, nor it would be anything impressive.
 
Therefir said:
We don't know how big the black hole is or how close they were to the event horizon, but technically all Omni-Man needs to do is just escape the accretion disk's pulling (which, once again depends on how fast the Black Hole is spinning, something impossible to know), FTL speed is not even required for that.
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This can be calced though. We see the ship as it approaches the Black hole so with angsizing the size of the black hole can be calculated. As for the ship, we see its size compared to Omni-Man too, so this can also be calced
Therefir said:
I don't think this is something that can be calculated with the little information that we have, nor it would be anything impressive.
Click to expand...
Stellar Black Holes have a huge gravitational pull, especially close to the event horizon, so Omni-Man not only resisting said pull but pushing an entire space ship out of there. Now this may need relativistic stuff, but even with just newtonian gravity it can work

Also, AP can be calced by measuring the work needed to move it out, like how Invincible got his 7-A rating by stopping the meteorite
 
Phoenks said:
In a way it kinda mimics an actual species. In humans for example. We have people who are way stronger than others, but aren't so completely far apart that they are incomparable.
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Humans can't gore each other bare-handed like viltrumites.
 
Cropfist said:
Humans can't gore each other bare-handed like viltrumites.
Click to expand...
Obviously it isn't exactly the same and Viltrumites seem to have the ability to get critical hits. It honestly doesn't make much sense to me how they can be comparable to one another and then one of them just gores the hell out of the other with one hit.
 
Phoenks said:
Obviously it isn't exactly the same and Viltrumites seem to have the ability to get critical hits. It honestly doesn't make much sense to me how they can be comparable to one another and then one of them just gores the hell out of the other with one hit.
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Sharp finger
 
Didn't the Viltrumites that died specifically said to not be comparable to those who killed them? As Omni Man directly said they killed the weak and only the strong survived
 
Tahoy49574 said:
It has to be noted that 4-C feat would also apply to Comic Space Racer

image.png
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Is this feat scan important?

If so, may be worthwhile to get a new host for the image.
 
Imaginym said:
Is this feat scan important?

If so, may be worthwhile to get a new host for the image.
Click to expand...
It's a scan from the books that supports the Infinity Ray being able to destroy stars on it's own, you even gave it a reaction

Is there something wrong with hosting them on Discord ? They stay up for some time but then I come back here and they're gone. What other site can I use ?
 
Tahoy49574 said:
It's a scan from the books that supports the Infinity Ray being able to destroy stars on it's own, you even gave it a reaction
Click to expand...
My bad, I had forgotten in the time between.
Tahoy49574 said:
Is there something wrong with hosting them on Discord ? They stay up for some time but then I come back here and they're gone. What other site can I use ?
Click to expand...
Imgur or, failing that, Postimg work. Imgur is the usual go-to.

Discord, a while back, made links to stuff on Discord from outside of Discord, expire after 12 hours. Presumably because hotlinking costs bandwith & thus, money; Greedy.
The content remains present on Discord, it's the links to it from outside that will be expired. But re-linking it every 12 hours isn't practical, right?

Sorry for any bother.
 
Also, getting kinda sidetracked, but how worth it is having separate profiles for the comic and show in the long run ? For all intents and purposes they're pretty comparable and they're unlikely to divert too much from their most notable feats.

Like, Comic viltrumites should also get Martial Arts and Resistance to Temperature Manipulation and Electricity Manipulation
 
Tahoy49574 said:
but how worth it is having separate profiles for the comic and show in the long run ? For all intents and purposes they're pretty comparable and they're unlikely to divert too much from their most notable feats.
Click to expand...
They've already had multiple plot changes, characters are changed (sometimes majorly) and the arcs are paced differently with Mark doing better against the Viltrumites than his comic version. It follows the comics closer than the New 52 DC adaptations, but its still ultimately a different work/canon.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
They've already had multiple plot changes, characters are changed (sometimes majorly) and the arcs are paced differently with Mark doing better against the Viltrumites than his comic version. It follows the comics closer than the New 52 DC adaptations, but its still ultimately a different work/canon.
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Than the New 52 DC Adaptations?

You mean for DC about their own works, rather than DC adapting anything Invincible, right?

Sorry for any bother.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
They've already had multiple plot changes, characters are changed (sometimes majorly) and the arcs are paced differently with Mark doing better against the Viltrumites than his comic version. It follows the comics closer than the New 52 DC adaptations, but its still ultimately a different work/canon.
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I guess.

Still though, as I mentioned those abilities would also apply to comic canon
 
So it's pretty clear that since he got his powers Mark has always been Low 6-B physically, he never had any training and power ups during the 2 seasons (except when he received his powers and when Omni Man learned him the basics) and he holds back during his fights. The problem with that is that it means that Invincible's durability has always been Low 6-B, and most of the supervillains who faced him can harm him, and the Guardians of the Globe 2 members can also harm these super villains. Which would mean that most of the characters in Invincible are Low 6-B (and even MFTL+).

For the black hole feat, it is possible of not for it to be calculated?
 
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We don't know how far away they were from the Black hole, and judging by how slow the spaceship was being dragged into it (which won't even work like that but okay) there's nothing worthy of being calculated.
 
Therefir said:
We don't know how far away they were from the Black hole, and judging by how slow the spaceship was being dragged into it (which won't even work like that but okay) there's nothing worthy of being calculated.
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We actually see Omni-Man being pretty close to the event horizon, and a black hole the size shown there would have a very strong gravitational pull, especially since he was carrying that entire spaceship. So no it's absolutely calcable, as we don't count his asteroid statment as a ls feat
 
I think other Viltrumites should still downscale from Nolan as he's implied to be on the stronger side of his species for the most part.

So like, if Nolan scales to baseline 6-B, then other Viltrumites (including Mark while not holding back) should scale to "At most 6-B".

We don't really know if Anissa was outclassing a holding back Mark or not, as it's implied that the only time he went all out was in the Thraxa fight and aganist Angstrom. Though Anissa should still at least scale to other Viltrumites in terms of AP.
 
Dinozxd said:
We don't really know if Anissa was outclassing a holding back Mark or not, as it's implied that the only time he went all out was in the Thraxa fight and aganist Angstrom. Though Anissa should still at least scale to other Viltrumites in terms of AP.
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I don't think Mark can holding back his durability so Anissa should easily be Low 6-B. But the problem is not with the Viltrumites, but with all the other non-Viltrumite characters who were able to harm Mark. Almost all the characters in the show will be Low 6-B and MFTL+ via downscaling with the Viltrumites.
 
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