Invincible(tv show) massive speed upgrade

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Omni-man and those that scale to him should get an upgrade in speed to mftl+ due to this feat

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...-man_flies_faster_then_light_for_some_bugussy

This isn’t really inconsistent either seeing as way weaker characters like pre zenkai Allen regularly travel interstellar distances for his job casually

(2:07)



current mark should somewhat scale to this considering there his hasn’t been portrayed as massively slower then other Viltrumites like in his fight with Nolan

(4:28)

 

[Da3ggman]

Seems straightforward enough; I agree.

 

[Chariot190]

That's fine, we just need an example of someone reacting to, intercepting, or quickly maneuvering mid-flight so we can scale it to reactions/combat speed.

Which there are, a bunch of examples actually, we just need a clip to link and it'd be good to go.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

That's fine, we just need an example of someone reacting to, intercepting, or quickly maneuvering mid-flight so we can scale it to reactions/combat speed.

Which there are, a bunch of examples actually, we just need a clip to link and it'd be good to go.

Vidor was going blow for blow with him while flying


(0:33)

Well this work?

 

[Excellence616]

Make sense

 

[Chariot190]

Vidor was going blow for blow with him while flying


(0:33)

Well this work?

Good enough, apparently Allen reacts to Anissa flying at him too, who's quicker than Nolan.

 

[SlendVeny]

I was talking about this yesterday, and I agree.

 

[Unknownnah]

Agreed.

Good enough, apparently Allen reacts to Anissa flying at him too, who's quicker than Nolan.

He also reacted to the Viltrumite ship coming at him.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Regarding Travel/Flight Feats and Reactions

If a character travels or flies very fast through a very empty terrain, in which it doesn't necessarily have to react to sudden obstacles, the speed in question is travel or flight speed, but not necessarily reaction speed. In order for it to also be reaction speed, and the speed in total hence applying to the character's combat speed, the character either must have demonstrated the ability to react to sudden obstacles while traveling at this speed, have a calculation made that supports the character having corresponding reaction speed/time or otherwise demonstrate having comparable reactions.

Simply being able to stop accurately at the target destination does typically not qualify, as it can be spotted from a large distance to make preparations to stop or the character could even slow down before reaching the destination, assuming we only know the average speed with which they moved.

The typical example of such cases of travel/flight speed that doesn't necessarily scale to reactions is space travel. As space is incredibly empty there are virtually no objects one has to navigate around between destinations. Just flying in a straight line from A to B would be safe. At the same time the typical destinations, such as stars and planets, are so large that they can easily be seen from millions of kilometers away. As a result a character would only need reactions equal to a miniscule fraction of their travel speed to perform a safe and precise landing on them.

Nothing given so far would show that Amazon Invincible scales to their flight speed. They need something like the Comic Book version intercepting ships or people mid-space flight to get that scaling.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Well this work?

No, because just flying isn't enough. You would need to show that they're moving at the same rate in that scene as with Nolan's space flight.

 

[Cropfist]

I agree with this.

 

[Chariot190]

No, because just flying isn't enough. You would need to show that they're moving at the same rate in that scene as with Nolan's space flight.

Not exactly, Nolan's feat was done casually, while depressed, and for the most part, not even the full timeframe as we see him stopped multiple times.
Nolan's apathetic space flight isn't going to be lower than a literal fight-to-the-death flight speed.

Common sense comes into play here.

Nothing given so far would show that Amazon Invincible scales to their flight speed. They need something like the Comic Book version intercepting ships or people mid-space flight to get that scaling.

It being mid-"space" flight was never a requirement, it just needs to be however the feat was done, which is simply flight, unless said flight differs for some reason but we know it doesn't, Omniman can hold back his speed yes, but that's all, his flight is simply fight, it doesn't change whether it's in space or not.



But here, Allen reacting to a pissed off Anissa (who's stated quicker than Nolan) flying at him, in space, like half a dozen times.
3rd time dudes fought in space as well, the 3 dudes, including whom Omniman is fighting in the above clip, literally mogged Allen by just Superman flying at him, ramming into him, then stopping themselves, on repeat.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Not exactly, Nolan's feat was done casually, while depressed

It was done in space and fits the criteria under the travel speed section. It's why you have to justify its usage in scaling.

It being mid-"space" flight was never a requirement

It is since the MFTL+ feats were all done in space and meets the listed criteria of flight speed.

his flight is simply fight, it doesn't change whether it's in space or not.

It falls under flight speed, which is why I quoted that section in the speed section. It happens in space over a long period of time with him flying in a straight line. Stopping isn't a justification for it to scale to his reactions.

But here, Allen reacting to a pissed off Anissa (who's stated quicker than Nolan) flying at him, in space, like half a dozen times.

Afaik that still isn't a qualifier for scaling flight speed to combat speed. You need to show their reactions being comparable, that they're moving as fast as possible or them attacking someone performing a similar feat.

 

[Chariot190]

It was done in space and fits the criteria under the travel speed section. It's why you have to justify its usage in scaling.

And you're being given justification.

It is since the MFTL+ feats were all done in space and meets the listed criteria of flight speed.

And you're being shown that they can react to each other while flying, in a far more pressing situation, exerting far more effort, than Omniman casually flying through space.

It falls under flight speed, which is why I quoted that section in the speed section. It happens in space over a long period of time with him flying in a straight line. Stopping isn't a justification for it to scale to his reactions.

It is flight speed, yes, and they can react, stop themselves, and attack each other while flying.
Strawmanning what I said already? That's odd, I never said him stopping was why it'd scale? I'd appreciate it if you didn't immediately jump to twisting what I said in your very first reply to me.

Afaik that still isn't a qualifier for scaling flight speed to combat speed. You need to show their reactions being comparable, that they're moving as fast as possible or them attacking someone performing a similar feat.

And here you have a dude, reacting to someone quicker than the dude with said feat, flying at him in space, while pissed off, and not holding back.
I pray I don't need to explain to you why you're being obtuse here.

 

[Chariot190]

I would also like to point out, the only reason why space flight is different, is simply because space is empty with no obstacles, as noted on the speed page.
It has nothing to do with length, acceleration, the fact it's space, and so on. Simply that a lack of obstacles due to the enviroment means they can fly at peak speed without hitting anything. And merely stopping at a target doesn't count because, in theory, they have trillions of miles or however much to react and stop over.

This doesn't apply if they can stop on a dime in a instant or have DBZ space fights where they can quickly fly, stop, turn, and fight and whatnot while reacting to each other.

 

[Qawsedf234]

And you're being given justification.

I'm not.

And you're being shown that they can react to each other while flying, in a far more pressing situation, exerting far more effort, than Omniman casually flying through space.

That doesn't matter. Read the speed section on flight speed again:

If a character travels or flies very fast through a very empty terrain, in which it doesn't necessarily have to react to sudden obstacles, the speed in question is travel or flight speed, but not necessarily reaction speed. In order for it to also be reaction speed, and the speed in total hence applying to the character's combat speed, the character either must have demonstrated the ability to react to sudden obstacles while traveling at this speed, have a calculation made that supports the character having corresponding reaction speed/time or otherwise demonstrate having comparable reactions.

Just flying in another scene isn't a valid justification. They have to be doing that during the feat itself.

It is flight speed, yes, and they can react, stop themselves, and attack each other while flying.

But not when performing a MFTL+ feat, which is how they would scale to this value.

Strawmanning what I said already?

Saying a buzzword doesn't make your points anymore valid Chariot.

don't need to explain to you why you're being obtuse here.

Since I've been here before with you I'm not going to continue since you're digging in your heels.

The feat is valid for travel speed but I don't see it being valid for combat speed. Nothing you given is a listed justification to allow this for scaling so I disagree with this upgrade.

EDIT: Grammar was off and I adjusted some of my wording.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Nothing given so far would show that Amazon Invincible scales to their flight speed. They need something like the Comic Book version intercepting ships or people mid-space flight to get that scaling.

No, because just flying isn't enough. You would need to show that they're moving at the same rate in that scene as with Nolan's space flight.

Hmm, well there’s mark about to clock Allen whose moving at top speed and Allen reacting to mark in space

 

[Qawsedf234]

whose moving at top speed and Allen reacting to mark in space

That would be an example of combat speed scaling to travel speed, yeah. Allen is coming in from another Solar System, Mark is seemingly able to perceive him and attack and Allen deaccelerated pretty fast.

Though going by the speed section Allen's travel speed would still need to be calced I think.

EDIT: Actually reading it he probably wouldn't. Since it's just a sudden obstacle rather than a supporting calc.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

That would be an example of combat speed scaling to travel speed, yeah. Allen is coming in from another Solar System, Mark is seemingly able to perceive him and attack and Allen deaccelerated pretty fast.

Though going by the speed section Allen's travel speed would still need to be calced I think.

Ok then are we good for this to apply?

Dose it? I’d think him traveling to different solar systems would be enough

 

[Qawsedf234]

then are we good for this to apply?

You'll need at least one other person with voting rights to agree with it. After which as long as that time limit has expired it can be applied.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

You'll need at least one other person with voting rights to agree with it. After which as long as that time limit has expired it can be applied.

Ok cool, do you know any other mods that be interested in this?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Ok cool, do you know any other mods that be interested in this?

Sorry but no

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Sorry but no

Ok then I guess we we’ll just wait

 

[Chariot190]

I'm not.

You are being given evidence.
"Omniman's feat is done very, very casually and without effort".
"This character is quicker than him and is actively pissed off"
"Both occur in deep space so atmosphere or environmental conditions don't cause any discrepancy"
"This other character reacts to her multiple times in a row after reacting to a MFTL+ spaceship while she, pissed off and not holding back, flies at him, in space, and he reacts just fine"

We know she's as fast as him, it takes place in space, it's flight, they react.
You've been given evidence, you're being obtuse.

You have been given reason why that example should be fine, now it's your turn to give reason why it isn't.
You'd need to give reason why Omniman's speed would be quicker than a pissed off character who's confirmed > him in speed, both in a vacuum, for you to actually have a point here.

That doesn't matter. Read the speed section on flight speed again:

I did. It's precisely why I opened with asking for some sort of evidence so we could scale it. You're just being overly extreme in what's actually necessary.

Saying a buzzword doesn't make your points anymore valid Chariot.

And calling something you don't like, a buzzword, isn't a rebuttal.
Was never my intent anyway, more so calling you out on misinterpreting a very straightforward point. You should know better than that.

Since I've been here before with you I'm not going to continue since you're digging in your heels.

If you give an actual argument that would convince me, that doesn't need to be the case.
You haven't, you've simply said nuh uh and quoted a speed page that doesn't actually discredit anything, but rather, merely explains when it shouldn't be scaled, in fact if anything, it corroborates what I've said.

The feat is valid for travel speed but I don't see it being valid for combat speed. Nothing you given is a listed justification to allow this for scaling so I disagree with this upgrade.

Quite literally everything.

Takes place in space, we have have reason to believe it's the character's top speed or above the calc (Quicker character while pissed off who doesn't hold back vs slower character who isn't even trying), they react in a small window. Character B's reactions thus scale to Character's flight speed in space. This is the 4th, or 5th, example of space flight being reacted to.

Couple that with the aforementioned trio attacking and stopping at a dime, in space, which you glossed over for some reason.

That would be an example of combat speed scaling to travel speed, yeah. Allen is coming in from another Solar System, Mark is seemingly able to perceive him and attack and Allen deaccelerated pretty fast.

You seem to be overly focused on distance flown, rather than if it's top speed, which is far more important

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

You are being given evidence.
"Omniman's feat is done very, very casually and without effort".
"This character is quicker than him and is actively pissed off"
"Both occur in deep space so atmosphere or environmental conditions don't cause any discrepancy"
"This other character reacts to her multiple times in a row after reacting to a MFTL+ spaceship while she, pissed off and not holding back, flies at him, in space, and he reacts just fine"

We know she's as fast as him, it takes place in space, it's flight, they react.
You've been given evidence, you're being obtuse.

You have been given reason why that example should be fine, now it's your turn to give reason why it isn't.
You'd need to give reason why Omniman's speed would be quicker than a pissed off character who's confirmed > him in speed, both in a vacuum, for you to actually have a point here.


I did. It's precisely why I opened with asking for some sort of evidence so we could scale it. You're just being overly extreme in what's actually necessary.

And calling something you don't like, a buzzword, isn't a rebuttal.
Was never my intent anyway, more so calling you out on misinterpreting a very straightforward point. You should know better than that.

If you give an actual argument that would convince me, that doesn't need to be the case.
You haven't, you've simply said nuh uh and quoted a speed page that doesn't actually discredit anything, but rather, merely explains when it shouldn't be scaled, in fact if anything, it corroborates what I've said.

Quite literally everything.

Takes place in space, we have have reason to believe it's the character's top speed or above the calc (Quicker character while pissed off who doesn't hold back vs slower character who isn't even trying), they react in a small window. Character B's reactions thus scale to Character's flight speed in space. This is the 4th, or 5th, example of space flight being reacted to.

Couple that with the aforementioned trio attacking and stopping at a dime, in space, which you glossed over for some reason.

You seem to be overly focused on distance flown, rather than if it's top speed, which is far more important

Qaw has agreed to combat speed scaling

That would be an example of combat speed scaling to travel speed, yeah. Allen is coming in from another Solar System, Mark is seemingly able to perceive him and attack and Allen deaccelerated pretty fast.

Though going by the speed section Allen's travel speed would still need to be calced I think.

EDIT: Actually reading it he probably wouldn't. Since it's just a sudden obstacle rather than a supporting calc.

You'll need at least one other person with voting rights to agree with it. After which as long as that time limit has expired it can be applied.

 

[Chariot190]

Qaw has agreed to combat speed scaling

I'm aware, but I'd prefer we don't throw out perfectly good support and evidence, especially given Anissa is the current top dog in speed, just because.

Would even have a small upscale chain going, as the Trio could blitz Allen by flying at him.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I'm aware, but I'd prefer we don't throw out perfectly good support and evidence, especially given Anissa is the current top dog in speed, just because.

Would even have a small upscale chain going, as the Trio could blitz Allen by flying at him.

Tbh I was actually think of calcing there speed later so it’ll still be included

 

[Propellus]

I'm really missing a lot in this show even though I finished Season 1 a long time ago.


Should be fine.

 

[Qawsedf234]

out perfectly good support and evidence, especially given Anissa is the current top dog in speed, just because.

It's not "Just because", it just doesn't qualify as evidence. Mark and Allen's thing does count though, so it's ultimately a moot point.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Alright now we wait(for two days I think )

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Agree with the upgrades.

 

[Kenny Mccormick 0v0]

I agree

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Alright can the changes be applied now?

 

[Ped2018]

I think so, yeah

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Ok can someone unlock the profiles?

 

[Propellus]

They already are

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

They already are

Oh ok

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Ok I made the revisions, this can be closed now

They already are

 

[Propellus]

Alright