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I was reading the entire Invincible run, its really good, and I noticed that the pages are fairly accurate but lack some stuff.


So, the Invincible guidebook has a lot of cool abilities. Atom Eve's page needs keys, possibly three of them. First, she had her original powers. Then, after the fight with Conquest, she gained more power. After that, much later, she gained another power boost and got even stronger. Post-Conquest, she was capable of fighting Viltrumites. Post-second resurrection, she could slaughter entire groups of them, just like Invincible could. However, it seems her durability does not change, since Mark was still concerned about her getting hit after her second resurrection, even though they both seemed to be on equal footing. Atom Eve should get scaling for these hypothetical second and third keys, basically. The Invincible guidebook supports this idea by saying that Atom Eve's use of Smart Atoms is one of few known characters in the Invincible universe that can compare to a Viltrumite at all. See here:


ReactivEevolutionn


Second paragraph, middle. I realize this is talking about smart atoms, but that is how Invincible's powers are explained to work here, so when they say Allen and Eve have comparable power levels with Smart Atoms, that should apply to their AP.


Also, she should get speed scaling for her other keys for keeping up with Viltrumites. She has said before that she cannot move as fast as Mark by a landslide, but that was before she resurrected for the first time.


The "at most" planet stuff should probably be removed. I saw the justification for this on old threads, and after checking out the series, I know for a fact that the series is not that inconsistent at all. Every time Mark is shown having trouble with someone who apparently has lower feats, its because he is weaker at the time, its explained that he has been holding back (which does affect his power), or its not really an inconsistency at all. For example, the other "highest" feat cited in that thread was Invincible tanking an explosion that turned Vegas to glass, which he did so casually and was not injured at all. However, there are a large array of higher feats. For example, a nuclear bomb in the Invincible universe could release a solar flare larger than the largest one ever recorded, likely scalable to better tech in the verse like the Martians and therefore Invincible. The largest solar flare ever recorded has a total energy in the petatons. Also, Omnipotus was stated in the guidebook as being capable of reshaping the surface of worlds with a thought, and Invincible fought him. Weaker heroes did, too. And Omnipotus during that time was about to go back to his catastrophic levels of power he had previously achieved.

Omnipotus (He was also able to destroy a star system apparently according to this, see below, not scalable btw)


As well, Universa's Staff of Leadership is stated as being capable of life-wiping (well, that might be a little generous since she claims it ends civilizations and thats all, but whatever) and apparently Universa can manipulate the energy of planets easily. Also, Omni-Man insulted the tech of a ship whose laser destroyed a disk that kept a planet in eternal dusk and thus kept it frozen from a nearby star's rays, as he found both the vessel and the crew incompetent, so this should easily scale to better tech in the verse. Beginning of Series Invincible ravaged the surface of the moon easily. Thragg and Battle Beast agreed that they could both destroy the planet they were fighting on. There's probably some more I didn't remember, but you get the point. With all of the power boosts Invincible got, EoS Invincible should probably at least be baseline planet, the other keys, small planet, maybe. Reason why I say that is I am not sure where the calc is for Planet Viltrum's destruction being triple digit zettatons (if someone can show it that would be great). So assuming it is baseline planet busting, and the three did equal work, it's at least small planet for the three of them. They were kind of battle weakened, too, so maybe baseline planet is fine anyway.


Besides that, Viltrumites need Molecular Manipulation, Reactive Evolution, Resistance to high heat, Resistance to absolute zero, and probably attack reflection.


Haxstuffs


Most of these are detailed in the Invincible handbook on the Viltrumite and Invincible entries. As for attack reflection, the reason why I say that is because Invincible's atoms are Smart Atoms that can apparently move energy at a subatomic level, which allows people he carries to not get hurt when he moves them at high speeds, but that's just a demonstration of him manipulating energy subconsciously. But yeah, the reason Invincible can even fly without tearing his clothes and other people apart and stuff is because he stores the energy in his atoms and manipulates inertia to pull his body that way, so we know for sure something involving energy is going on there. We also see Invincible get attacked by an entire army of Viltrumites post-resurrection, and they all die upon touching him. This isn't really possible irl afaik, you don't just kill yourself by touching a strong surface. Viltrumites are made of Smart Atoms, not just regular ones, that are specifically explained as having many, many uses, so the only real reason that seems to make sense for characters dying or getting injured beyond what is safe upon touching him is that his Smart Atoms are acting for him. The Viltrumites died upon coming into contact with Atom Eve's smart atom-based shields, so I would use that to justify this. Basically gives the dude built-in Vibranium, so people below his AP would likely face serious consequences for trying to attack him physically.


Besides that, I think Omnipotus' page could use a few things I guess but nothing too big. Apparently he destroyed an entire star system in one shot through his powers, not scalable to anyone but himself, since he only fought people in a weakened state, but apparently thats the beginning of his catastrophic power he displays on universes he visits, right before his power rises exponentially and he begins to destroy the entire thing. Seemingly described as a chain reaction, so I guess he does not obtain the power received from his destruction right away, only after the fact. Doesn't matter since he is universe level at the peak of his power anyway.


Also, Massively FTL probably does not just apply to flight speed either. Invincible has punched Allen out of his flight multiple times while he didn't suspect a thing, and it's not the only time stuff like this has happened either. Many MFTL+ flight things exist, and characters have been cited as flying at full speed while doing other actions, like when Omni-Man tried to make sure Invincible could keep up while they were all flying full speed to destroy Planet Viltrum.


That's everything. Basically the stats should all get revised to straight up planet and MFTL+, add more keys (some with slightly lower stats if you really want to), give the Viltrumite scaling to other characters in the verse, and there's a bunch more abilities to add, too.


(Not every scan is here, but if you need them I can look for them)
 
Can you summarise why you want to update the statistics to Planet level and MFTL+ in a better structured manner?
 
Yes.

There are a large variety of feats that support the destruction of Planet Viltrum, we have seen instances of MFTL+ tagging not necessarily restricted to solely flight, and also characters may even be notably above baseline planet anyway, from what we have seen. (Allen the Alien for example is above a trained Invincible, above Invincible without training, and below himself with no augmentation to his power. Allen was so powerful that Dinosaurus and Invincible believed they couldn't beat him, and he was seen as basically their only hope against Thragg).

Especially with the training/resurrection buffs he got, "at most planet level" is kind of misleading when he has exceeded that level of power, and shown similar feats.
 
Are there some calculations to base all of this on?
 
Actually, in my original post, I asked that the calc for Planet Viltrum's destruction be shown if it exists, which would help make everyone planet. If the page creator/any experts have any knowledge on the apparently triple digit zettaton calc, this is why we'd need to see it, although it just makes for a slight difference in tiering.

Reason being is that, just like the Christopher Reeve Superman page, it cites a number but no calc. So thats why I also said everyone pre-resurrection/boosting could be small planet instead by taking baseline planet/GBE of Earth and dividing it among the three who performed the feat, which is small planet, tens of zettatons for each rather than hundreds like Invincible's page suggests. However, later keys likely breach planet anyway for becoming far stronger such that an entire army of opponents equal to Mark killed themselves upon trying to punch him.
 
KE seems to have been accepted, which is actually large planet (ninatons)

Feats below that are generally all casual as listed above. Apparently worm holes are also made by creating black holes in the Invincible universe, but I think with how black holes are calced on this site it would actually be higher than this feat which doesn't seem entirely consistent, not sure (for reference the worm hole that we saw in-series was big enough to warp away Omnipotus who is twelve feet, or four-ish meters, tall, which, if the Kirby calcs are any indicator, the size of this one makes it almost out of the large planet range)
 
Upgrading the relevant characters to Large Planet level seems fine then, although remember to link to the calculation blog.
 
I assume adding keys to Omnipotus, Invincible, Atom Eve, and Allen the Alien would also be fine? As well as the new abilities for Invincible and other Viltrumites?
 
Bump for more input

I noticed literally no one is listed under knowledgeable members for Image comics so idk if its entirely necessary I guess? But if an ok is needed for the abilities Id appreciate feedback
 
I've read all the Invincible comics and some related stuff (Eve's origins, Dynamo 5, Tech Jacket, etc). This seems fine, although the Guides have contradictory information, like Allen the Alien being able to move at mach 10 and lift 30 tons, when he's definitley much faster and stronger (they have an image of him preventing a spaceship from entering a star's gravitational pull). There's more, but it's pretty much along the same lines.
 
Adding keys to the mentioned characters is fine if you have calculated feats to scale their evolving power levels from.

The new abilities for Viltrumites seem fine, with the exception of Matter Manipulation and Attack Reflection. They do not seem to fit with their power sets.
 
I understand Attack Reflection then, although matter manipulation is like Captain Falcon using fire and it being considered fire manipulation, despite it only shaping his attacks and not much else. Matter Manipulation is how they fly, store energy from attacks/movement speed so a passenger he carries doesn't die (which we do see demonstrated for us), among other things. It's also the source of his resistances, as said in the entries posted above. I suppose its more his Smart Atoms acting on their own, so if this gets the ok, Ill be sure to explain the ability on the page so that it does not mislead people into thinking Invincible has Atom Eve powers or something.
 
Please read our Matter Manipulation ability for an example of what we mean with the ability. Just because all powers in fiction that break the laws of physics are technically Reality Warping, this does not mean that we assign the power to virtually all characters in this wiki, and what you suggest would be a similar situation.
 
Alright then, I made a laundry list of profiles that need to be edited, although there are two or so i am unsure of. I'll search for stuff before I edit those. I'll probably do it in a few hours.
 
All relevant pages, except for the Immortal, which is currently locked, have been edited. I left a few pages alone in some areas, but there are some errors and possible additions to some Image pages that are otherwise somewhat empty or incomplete that might be worth looking at for another CRT, but I don't have the full knowledge on all of these characters yet.
 
I can help with a few. Mark is missing keys in durability and speed.
 
Actually, should early series Invincible be Massively FTL+? He wasn't really known for such speeds as he could only survive for short intervals back then.
 
Maybe not, but I recall a Massively FTL (no plus) feat from Allen who Invincible caught up with prior to training and his first resurrection within the first ten issues because he was flying into the solar system and would make it to Earth within ten minutes or something, got like a minimum 300c or something
 
Ok, makes sense. I'll put "Comparable to Allen the Alien" as justification.
 
I believe that is everything. I added some explanation keys (I forgot only three profiles had keys added that didn't have them before), although they may need some trimming. If anything else is needed, please say so.
 
Okay. Thank you for the help. Should we close this thread then?
 
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