- 193
- 169
Basis
Viltrum's properties and narrative portrayal would reasonably make it much bigger than Earth, something none of the accepted calculations we've used credit it for. This would be an explanation for three Viltrumites and Space Racer's gun being needed to destroy the Planet, along with explaining why it's core was tough enough to cause three Viltrumites to possibly "die on impact" if they had collided with the Planet. Additionally, Viltrum's destruction taking much more effort than other instances of Planet level destruction in Invincible would further justify it's size and mass being far greater than a Planet like Earth.Evidence
Viltrum Being Larger than Earth
- 99.9% of Viltrum's population formed a ring around the entire Planet. The death toll per year was stated to have claimed "countless lives", each individual line of dead bodies being visible next to the Planet and as a black line when zoomed out in space. Before the Scourge Virus happened, Viltrumites spent hundreds of years straight restlessly killingeach other until only the strongest of them survived. Over 1.2 million people die per year as a result of military conflict, and assuming a timeframe of around 300 years, this puts 0.1% of Viltrum's population at a minimum of 142,256,925,000 Viltrumites, over 17 times Earth's current population as of 2025, and over 14 times Earth's estimated "carrying capacity". It's population at 100% was then 142,256,925,000,000 Viltrumites, 99.9% of those making up Viltrum's rings. Using 1.9 square meters, the average surface area of a human male, the combined surface area of Viltrum's entire Viltrumite population makes up 270288160 square kilometers, already more than half of Earth's entire surface area. The combined surface area of all humans on Earth as of 2025, using the population of 8,198,803,610 people according to this site, would be roughly 15577.726859 square kilometers using the same 1.9 square meter value. Obviously, if Viltrum was really only the size of Earth, stable living conditions where it's population is well over 14,000 times the Planet's carrying capacity would be virtually non-existent, especially when the population is filled with beings who can virtually kill each other accidentally via physical contact. Yet even in the flashbacks of Viltrum's actual society, there are no issues with Viltrumites being able to move around in wide open space to mimic a mistakenly utopian society.
- Viltrum canonically has considerably greater gravity than Earth and even Neptune, being 1.25x Earth's specifically. By default, larger objects, unless they have less density, by definition possess greater gravity according to Newton's Universal law of Gravitation, and vice versa. Viltrum is clearly not composed entirely of icy gas nor is noticeably any less dense than Earth, therefore in order for it to have greater gravity while having comparable density to Earth, it would objectively need to possess considerably greater volume for it's mass to be spread out across and thus also heavier, due to gravity and mass being directly proportional.
- For Viltrum to have supported it's rings of corpses for several thousand to millions of years, it would need to have a considerably greater Roche limit than Earth, and thus a much greater radius for objects caught in it's gravitational pull to remain in consistent orbit sustained only by it's gravity. Viltrum's gravity is greater than any's in Earth's solar system with the exception of Jupiter, and all Planets in the Solar System which are bigger than Earth possess rings. Viltrum's gravity being greater than Saturn and even Neptune, while still having greater density than both of them would for the same reasons above objectively attribute it comparably larger size to Earth.
- Viltrum also has 4 visible moons, all of which would have to be located outside of it's own Roche limit distance and shaped purely by it's own gravitational force, consistent with all of the above justifications as well as the canonical description of Viltrum's gravity.
- Despite being located at minimum right at the border of it's roche limit via the moons being perfect spheres remaining in tact purely by Viltrum's gravity, Viltrum still dwarfs said moons that distance away. This would put Viltrum's apparent size already at over 29,000 kilometers in this calculation. This point will only be valid if/once said calculation is approved, however.
- Viltrum also has 4 visible moons, all of which would have to be located outside of it's own Roche limit distance and shaped purely by it's own gravitational force, consistent with all of the above justifications as well as the canonical description of Viltrum's gravity.
- While a stretch, Viltrum could potentially be comparable in size to Universa's Planet, which is stated by Universa herself to be 8 times as large as Earth. Universa is clearly not as physically strong as Mark, let alone stronger than Viltrumites or Rognarr, meaning her Planet potentially has less gravity than Viltrum. This one admittedly is more than likely unusable, but it can possibly be used as supporting evidence for Viltrum being larger than Earth, I suppose. I just felt it was worth bringing up.
Instances of Viltrumites Having No Issue Destroying Other Planets
- Thragg stated that he and 37 severely injured Viltrumites are enough to split the Earth in two, a statement which has been accepted as being usable. In order for this to be possible, Thragg and those other 37 Viltrumites would have objectively needed to have collided with the Earth's core in order to move through the entire Planet's diameter. If Space Racer's gun was truly necessary for singular Viltrumites to destroy an ordinary Planet's core, this would not be possible for Thragg and those 37 Viltrumites to accomplish without many of those 37 Viltrumites dying on impact, taking Thaedus' statement as applicable to literally any Planet in the Universe.
- It would also make no sense whatsoever for all of those, including severely-injured 37 Viltrumites to have "weakened" the Earth's core before the final 37th Viltrumite finally causes it to collapse, as again, if an individual Viltrumite truly could die upon colliding with a Planet's core, that would mean Thragg would be risking the lives of the literal final remaining members of his species, something which entirely goes against his sole motivation for engaging in a truce with Mark and Nolan. Thragg wants every single Viltrumite alive to breed with the population of Earth to repopulate the Viltrumite race, risking the lives of 37 Viltrumites just to prove a point to destroy something he already doesn't want to destroy as it is their last chance of survival would be a very stupid, out-of-character decision. Again, collision with Earth's core would objectively have to happen in order to split the Earth in two 50/50 slices, which is what our standard Earth splitting calc uses.
- Space Racer is also on the side of the Coalition of Planets, and Thragg likely doesn't even know of his effort in destroying Viltrum as he directly attributes it's destruction to Mark, Nolan, and Thaedus without any mention of Space Racer's gun playing a role. Space Racer would not shoot at Earth's core intentionally to help Thragg and Viltrum destroy the Earth, nor would he have any reason to that benefits him. Thragg is also very prideful of himself and Viltrumites as a race, which is the entire motivation for why he leads the Viltrumites as a Planet conquering race and later leads an army of half-Viltrumite children to kill those who betrayed him, specifically to prove his superiority over all other races and beings in the Universe. Space Racer's gun being used to destabilize Earth's core would be out of character for both Space Racer and Thragg, which assumes Thragg even knows about Space Racer's effort in destroying Viltrum.
- It would also make no sense whatsoever for all of those, including severely-injured 37 Viltrumites to have "weakened" the Earth's core before the final 37th Viltrumite finally causes it to collapse, as again, if an individual Viltrumite truly could die upon colliding with a Planet's core, that would mean Thragg would be risking the lives of the literal final remaining members of his species, something which entirely goes against his sole motivation for engaging in a truce with Mark and Nolan. Thragg wants every single Viltrumite alive to breed with the population of Earth to repopulate the Viltrumite race, risking the lives of 37 Viltrumites just to prove a point to destroy something he already doesn't want to destroy as it is their last chance of survival would be a very stupid, out-of-character decision. Again, collision with Earth's core would objectively have to happen in order to split the Earth in two 50/50 slices, which is what our standard Earth splitting calc uses.
- Allen's homeworld, Unopa, was stated by Allen himself to have been completely destroyed by Viltrumwith there being no Planet to go back to at all. This forced the Unopan species to become nomadic and set up deep space breeding colonies, where Allen was born. If Unopa's civilization or surface was all that destroyed, the Unopan species could have very easily rebuilt their society over time considering the fact there were survivors and simply set up their breeding colonies there. We've seen other Planets in Invincible, specifically Thraxa, do exactly this when Viltrumites invaded the Planet and destroyed their cities and left a large portion of their population dead, and they even have specific hiding spots for invasions of Viltrumites. We also never see the Unopa homeworld in Invincible at any time whatsoever outside of flashbacks, despite us going back to Thraxa multiple times in Invincible despite how many times it's civilization was ravaged by Viltrum.
- The TV series, which is written and co-directed by Robert Kirkman who also wrote the comic series, has Allen flat out saying that Unopa was blown up.
- Beyond all of this, there is not any other instance in the series besides the destruction of Viltrum where Viltrumites require outside help beyond just their brute strength in order to destroy Planets or survive impacting with a Planet's core. Even with the combined effort of multiple Viltrumites being taken into account, we already accept individual Viltrumites scaling to Low 5-B due to the ejection of Viltrum's mass, despite previously scaling them individually to 1/37th the effort of the standard Low 5-B earth splitting feat, meaning that stronger Viltrumites would absolutely be contributing much more to a Planet's destruction than other weaker Viltrumites via this factor. Additionally, "blowing a planet up" would almost certainly yield far greater than Low 5-B kinetic energy results if it is to be assumed that literally the entire planet was destroyed, which should be a reasonable assumption for Allen's planet FRA, making their individual effort not a fraction of the Planet's GBE, but of the kinetic energy of the hypothetical Planet's debris flying out into space, again, something we already scale Viltrumites to based off of dividng the KE of the outward mass of Viltrum being ejected by three for each Viltrumite.
- WoG has backed up Viltrumites being able to "blow up planets" as a consistent display of their power level. Kirkman at no point has any objection to claims of Viltrumites being able to blow up Planets, that in fact being his very intention for Viltrumites' consistent power level:
(There was one where Robert allegedly states that they have "Celestial-body shattering" power, but I cannot find any information on that interview to validate it's existence, the webpage URL is suspiciously cropped out only in that scan in the pages I saw it linked, and I've had multiple people on Discord tell me it's fake, so...I'm inclined to say to not use that scan until it's existence can be proven).
In short, Viltrum as a Planet must objectively be much different from a standard Planet, as Viltrum has never once been implied to have required outside help, usage of technology, or be risking their lives destroying ordinary Planets with Viltrum's destruction being the only instance of this occuring. The only explanation that makes sense is that Viltrum's core is far denser, and therefore much more durable and heavier than the cores of ordinary Planets, something which is consistently backed up by Viltrum visibly having far greater gravity than Earth just by virtue of it being able to support a ring of dead bodies which make up 99.9% of their population, having multiple more moons than Earth in it's orbit, and by canonically being stated to have 1.25x Earth's gravity.
Kinetic Energy Adjustments
Again, I've made a calculation recently for Viltrum's size, density, and the yield of the ejection of the outward mass being sent flying into space. While the purpose of this CRT is not to say whether or not this calculation should be used as that is for the calculation group to decide, I felt it necessary to explain some of the justifications for why I changed a few of the values that the currently accepted calc uses.For one, the calc we currently use calculates the Planet's escape velocity and uses that for the velocity of the mass. This is a good baseline, however one, Viltrum is bigger than Earth FRA, and two, the mass being ejected clearly expands much further over a shorter distance of time. As is seen in these scans, the former clearly showing the explosion engulfing the Viltrumite corpse ring around the Planet with cities flying past them at a similar distance, the mass of the Planet that was sent out into space visibly effects, albeit does not visibly damage, the ring of Viltrumite corpses orbitting the Planet, meaning it was sent flying at this distance over this unspecified period of time. Therefore, using the distance from the edge of Viltrum to it's rings, which is what my calc did, and dividing that by an assumed timeframe (I used about 30 seconds in between the two panels before the mass is seen hitting the rings) to get the velocity. It came out to well above the escape velocity value, which obviously isn't contradictory to anything.
Secondly, the original calc uses the density of rock for the mass being ejected instead of the density of the Planet. Even just assuming Viltrum is as dense as Earth (which is clearly not the case for reasons listed both above and shortly below), the density value that should be used should be 5514 kg/m^3, Earth's density. The mass being ejected from Viltrum are pieces of the Planet itself, parts of it's volume, not just one part of the Planet composed of one specific material. Therefore, using the Planet's average density makes much more sense to me.
Possible Questions/Rebuttals
Isn't the Viltrum Feat below 5-B due to Space Racer's gun being needed, three Viltrumites being needed to do it, and the calc getting Low 5-B?
Well, for starters, due to the fact that Viltrum should be bigger than Earth FRA, something none of the current calculations that have been accepted take into account, the circumstances are irrelevant as the sheer size of Viltrum would yield at minimum 5-B results. However, many of the circumstances that people commonly bring up to discredit this feat have many issues and contradictions, some of which I touched on above. Viltrum is also quite clearly a different case from other Planets in both the Invincible universe and other planets in general, for reasons that have all been addressed above. What should be noted, though, is the fact that Space Racer's gun being a neccessity here at all explicitly backs up the idea that Viltrum is not only much larger than Earth, but also considerably more dense as well.First off, it should be noted that, if you were to take Thaedus stating that the force of him, Mark, and Nolan colliding into Viltrum's core at the speed they did would kill them like many people do, then this implies that a Viltrumite cannot survive Relativistic impact equal to at most 2.066 Gigatons of TNT, and that's using the absolute highest possible movement speed that they could have achieved to get KE from that feat. This is not even trying to say that this is their peak durability either, which itself would obviously already be absurd, but rather that that amount of force would one-shot kill them, with their actual durability and AP being an unquantifiably fairly large number below that value. It should go without saying that Viltrumites clearly do not and cannot be one-shotted by Large Mountain level attacks. If this were the case, stuff like surviving a High 6-A solar flare or even while still far inferior to even the weakest Viltrumites casually throwing a Golem into space with High 6-C force, and so on. No need to really explain why Viltrumites do not peak at far below High 7-A.
Another interpretation I've seen proposed outside of both of these is that it was the heat being produced by the core which is what would have killed them on impact, and not the sheer density and toughness of it. This is not the case either due to the fact that Mark and Thragg were undamaged for several minutes before noticeable signs of burning and injury inside of the sun's surface, making it very unlikely that a single, literal split-second moment inside a slightly hotter core would do any more significant damage.
Another possible interpretation as to why they could have died to hitting Viltrum's core could be that they were already flying into the core with the same amount of force that was produced when the Planet was destroyed. If this were the case, however, at best the feat would simply just not be applicable to durability. In order for them to have produced the Planet busting force at all, they would have all three individually had to have produced the force themselves with their own AP, and therefore scale to the feat attack wise regardless of Space Racer's gun being used, meaning that Space Racer shooting his gun at Viltrum's core did nothing besides lessening the kinetic energy impact of the three Viltrumites ramming into the core. This admittedly is a much more reasonable and fair explanation of what happened during this feat, however it still has a few problems. One, Viltrumite War era Mark is capable of taking punches from Conquest, who is demonstrably stronger than him, and Conquest himself is much more durable than Mark and other Viltrumites as well. Additionally, Nolan should downscale slightly from Thragg, who he made bleed despite previously completely tanking his attacks during the Viltrumite War, in fact right after the Viltrum destruction feat. Finally, the rings of Viltrum itself, which we know are composed of the corpses of Viltrumites, is fairly undamaged by the force of the mass being ejected from Viltrum's core, which we can see fly past and hit their bodies. The ring remains visible and undestroyed, the bodies of the Viltrumites still being completely visible. If this amount of force was enough to one-shot kill Viltrumites, a large portion of the ring would have very much appeared destroyed.
As for what I believe the actual reason as to why Thaedus stated that they all could have "died on impact" upon hitting Viltrum's core is somewhat similar to the above intrepretation with a slight differentiation. In short, Viltrum's core is clearly far more dense and tougher than a normal Planet's core due to it's exceptionally stronger gravity than a vast majority of Planets that are known with the exception of the larger gas giants. The density of a Planet, especially at it's center of mass where is where the densest material on Viltrum, which would obviously be far denser than any object on Earth just by the fact that said material presumably includes those which Viltrumites cannot immediately destroy, would be pulled into and be most abundant. With material that can withstand and even kill Viltrumites already existing on Viltrum (this scene for example shows weaponry wielded by Viltrumites severely injuring other Viltrumites without said weapons shattering from the impact, and also Thula's hair-blade not breaking upon hitting Viltrumite skin despite other Planet's swords doing just that), it would be a logical assumption to assume that the culmination of the densest materials on a Planet with said weaponry would produce a wall that could also kill Viltrumites without being damaged. We've also seen how Space Racer destroys solid objects with his gun in the past before, especially with harder objects which he explicitly has a much harder time immediately destroying with Viltrum's core demonstrably being one of them. However, if Space Racer's gun pierced fully through the core, there would be no need for Mark, Nolan, or Thaedus to have flown through it when Space Racer's gun was enough to destroy the core and thus the Planet along with it.
Didn't Thaedus also state that they needed to hit in the right spot along with timing it perfectly?
This point is entirely irrelevant and is ultimately a rehash of the above argument. The reason Thaedus said this is because Viltrum's core could have very easily re-stabilized had they been even a second off from immediately ramming through the core, hence leading to the Viltrumite-material level core's counter-force impact killing them. Additionally, had they have missed the core, they would have simply flown straight through the Planet and not have necessarily destroyed it in it's entirety. It would also alert Viltrum to their location and have to have them deal with multiple Viltrumites at once, who would also very much be enraged at seeing them attempt to destroy their homeworld.Would Tech Jacket's Planet Eater foe count as supporting evidence for the 5-B and above tiering?
Simply put, no. While scaling to Tech Jacket is perfectly fine given the fact he appears as a canonical participant in major Invincible storyline arcs (I.E both Viltrumite Wars), we have quite literally zero context on what that "Planet Eater" thing is capable of besides the most basic and obvious premise, which is simply not enough. We have no clue whatsoever how this entity consumed and/or destroyed these unnamed, completely unknown Planets of unknown sizes, let alone in what timeframe with there being no implication whatsoever he immediately destroyed these Planets in a large explosion or even just via sheer AP and not hax, and so on so forth. Empowering himself with the energy of these said Planets could theroetically grant a Low 4-C rating due to the Earth's mass-energy getting to this level, the Planet Eater is clearly intended narratively to be an at best 5-B entity, so a Low 4-C rating would be undoubtedly inconsistent and contradictory for an already blatantly throwaway character not meant to serve any real purpose in terms of destructive feats, let alone to be one-shotted by a High 6-C character.Finally, the calc we currently use and which has been accepted links this document at the end, which goes into more detail explaining why the outward mass being ejected from Viltrum is entirely and objectively attributed to Mark, Nolan, and Thaedus, meaning the reasonings in it are presumably accepted.
Conclusion
Viltrum is clearly much larger than Earth and is portrayed much different narratively than any ordinary Planet that has been shown in the Invincible verse, which Viltrumites have shown no issue of being able to actually literally destroy in the past. Viltrum's much larger size yielding 5-A attack potency from the outward mass ejected, a feat which has already been accepted as being attributed to them and usable on our profiles. Beyond Thaedus stating that the clearly highly dense and tough core of Viltrum would be enough to kill them on impact for Viltrum as a Planet specifically, there are no other contradictions nor anti-feats whatsoever for Viltrumites being able to destroy average, Earth or larger sized Planets on their own, with Viltrum being the only instance where it is ever remotely implied that Planetary destruction is beyond their individual capability. Therefore, 5-A is a consistent rating for Viltrumites at their peak, the outward explosion of Viltrum's far denser, larger than Earth mass would yield this level.Agree:
Disagree:
If He's Invisible, Why Can I See Him? (neutral):
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