- 1,049
- 804
Part One: The 8-A Rating
This rating is given to any character scaling from the Varia Arc. The high results of this calc are based on it treating it is vaporization. I have a problem with this. In the anime, you do kind of see what could be vapor, but frankly I doubt most artists differentiate between vapor and smoke.
More importantly, the manga doesn't show any smoke or vapor at all
From VSBW page on calculations: "there has to be a considerable amount of visible vapor and/or character statements that imply vaporization, usually the latter."
There is no statement implying vaporization, and there isn't a "considerable amount" of visible vapor (or any in the manga for that matter)
The other vaporization feat, Tsuna's X-Burner, I'm actually fine with. It is flames so vaporization makes sense, and more importantly we actually see a lot of vapor.
Proposal 1: Redo the calc without vaporization
Agree: @Setsuna_tenma, @Aernasilver, @MasqueTLDF, @Expectro2000xxx (4)
Disagree: @Kachon123, @Nierre (2)
Neutral:
Part Two: The 6-C Rating
The 6-C rating is given to any characters who scale to the real Six Funeral Wreaths. The calc just isn't at all accurate to how volcanic eruptions actually work. The feat is erupting volcanoes. A volcanic eruption isn't some force rapidly pulling lava 250 km upward.
The Krakatoa eruption was 200 megatons -- VEI 6
The Pinatubo eruption was 70 megatons -- VEI 6
The St Helens eruption was 24 megatons, but only 7 of them were the actual blast -- VEI 5
The calc gives a magma volume of 0.06 km^3 (which this presenting another issue, as it doesn't explain where any of these numbers come from). For context, St Helens erupted 0.25 km^3 and Pinatubo erupted 5 km^3. This means that we are currently treating a feat that is 8x smaller than the Pinatubo eruption as being 743x more powerful than it. This shows that the current calc should be dropped, and it is wildly out of line with irl volcanoes. Based on the calculated volume of ejected magma, the feat is much more in line with a VEI 2 eruption.
Proposal 2: This feat needs to be re-calced correctly, using a method more in-line with the size of the eruption and with what volcanic eruptions actually look like
Agree: @Setsuna_tenma, @Aernasilver, @MasqueTLDF, @Expectro2000xxx (4)
Disagree:
Neutral:
Part Three: The 5-B Rating
The 5-B rating is given to characters scaling off of Byakuran. Admittedly I was actually someone who initially argued in favor of this rating, but I now see the error of my ways. This one is different in that it isn't an issue with the calc, but rather the validity of the feat at all.
Agree: @Setsuna_tenma, @Aernasilver, @MasqueTLDF, @Expectro2000xxx, @Nierre (5)
Disagree:
Neutral:
Part Four: The 5-A Rating
The 5-A rating is given to anyone who scales from Enma, which is every character in the last two arcs. Now, I also grudgingly accepted this feat back when it was proposed. But as time has gone on, I've come to strongly disagree with it.
Proposal 4: Drop the 5-A calc, and revert to scaling based on the stated multipliers
Agree: @Setsuna_tenma, @Aernasilver, @MasqueTLDF, @Expectro2000xxx (4)
Disagree: @Nierre, @Tetsuya1029 (2)
Neutral:
Summary:
Proposal 1: Redo the 8-A calc without vaporization, or use a separate calc to scale Varia Arc characters
Proposal 2: Re-calc the 6-C feat, using a method more in-line with the size of the eruption and with what volcanic eruptions actually look like
Proposal 3: Drop the 5-B scaling and replace it with what he used to have, that being upscaling from the Funeral Wreaths via stated multipliers.
Proposal 4: Drop the 5-A calc, and revert to scaling based on the stated multipliers
I know this is a massive downgrade for every calc but one, and that the big thread doing the upgrade was just a couple years ago, and that I participated in it, so sorry about the hassle. I just strongly feel that almost all of the current ratings vastly misrepresent the series' actual showings.
The verse in general is somewhat messy, which myself and others have tried to fix over the last few years. I plan on doing follow-up threads revising scaling, multipliers, and just general page presentation.
This rating is given to any character scaling from the Varia Arc. The high results of this calc are based on it treating it is vaporization. I have a problem with this. In the anime, you do kind of see what could be vapor, but frankly I doubt most artists differentiate between vapor and smoke.
More importantly, the manga doesn't show any smoke or vapor at all
From VSBW page on calculations: "there has to be a considerable amount of visible vapor and/or character statements that imply vaporization, usually the latter."
There is no statement implying vaporization, and there isn't a "considerable amount" of visible vapor (or any in the manga for that matter)
The other vaporization feat, Tsuna's X-Burner, I'm actually fine with. It is flames so vaporization makes sense, and more importantly we actually see a lot of vapor.
Proposal 1: Redo the calc without vaporization
Agree: @Setsuna_tenma, @Aernasilver, @MasqueTLDF, @Expectro2000xxx (4)
Disagree: @Kachon123, @Nierre (2)
Neutral:
Part Two: The 6-C Rating
The 6-C rating is given to any characters who scale to the real Six Funeral Wreaths. The calc just isn't at all accurate to how volcanic eruptions actually work. The feat is erupting volcanoes. A volcanic eruption isn't some force rapidly pulling lava 250 km upward.
The Krakatoa eruption was 200 megatons -- VEI 6
The Pinatubo eruption was 70 megatons -- VEI 6
The St Helens eruption was 24 megatons, but only 7 of them were the actual blast -- VEI 5
The calc gives a magma volume of 0.06 km^3 (which this presenting another issue, as it doesn't explain where any of these numbers come from). For context, St Helens erupted 0.25 km^3 and Pinatubo erupted 5 km^3. This means that we are currently treating a feat that is 8x smaller than the Pinatubo eruption as being 743x more powerful than it. This shows that the current calc should be dropped, and it is wildly out of line with irl volcanoes. Based on the calculated volume of ejected magma, the feat is much more in line with a VEI 2 eruption.
Proposal 2: This feat needs to be re-calced correctly, using a method more in-line with the size of the eruption and with what volcanic eruptions actually look like
Agree: @Setsuna_tenma, @Aernasilver, @MasqueTLDF, @Expectro2000xxx (4)
Disagree:
Neutral:
Part Three: The 5-B Rating
The 5-B rating is given to characters scaling off of Byakuran. Admittedly I was actually someone who initially argued in favor of this rating, but I now see the error of my ways. This one is different in that it isn't an issue with the calc, but rather the validity of the feat at all.
- This feat is offscreen so shouldn't be used in the first place
- "Destroying the world" is unusably vague. We have no idea the time frame, the method, or even what "destroying the world" even means in this context. Did Byakuran blow up the planet? Did he life-wipe? Did he just destroy civilization? We have no idea.
- Byakuran was talking about a failed experiment. "I destroyed the world he came from" is part of a larger thought: "Even with the newest scientific technology, it was a disastrous operation. I destroyed the world he came from. And, I managed to bring him back, but barely in the shape of a human." This pretty clearly means that something about Byakuran's experiment went wrong and resulted in the world being destroyed while he tried to bring Ghost over to his world.
- This experiment was about Byakuran trying to pull someone across worlds. Since it failed and the other Byakuran's body was destroyed, this clearly means that Byakuran has no means to go to the other world to destroy it in the first place, thus invalidating it entirely.
Agree: @Setsuna_tenma, @Aernasilver, @MasqueTLDF, @Expectro2000xxx, @Nierre (5)
Disagree:
Neutral:
Part Four: The 5-A Rating
The 5-A rating is given to anyone who scales from Enma, which is every character in the last two arcs. Now, I also grudgingly accepted this feat back when it was proposed. But as time has gone on, I've come to strongly disagree with it.
- It is a gross outlier. This is a verse with zero actual feats above Tier 7, so upgrading everyone based on black hole statements of all things is a huge leap. From the VSBW page on outliers:
- Is it a big jump or drop in power? -- Yes. No character in the verse, the previous highest-shown feat was only Tier 7. Enma does represent a canonical jump in power, but the number given is that he will be 7x stronger. This feat represents a leap of 282,758,620,000,000,000,000x over what was previously shown.
- Is it a unique or exceptional incident? -- Yes. Nothing like this is ever shown again.
- Is the event unexplained and unjustified? -- Yes. As I mentioned, while there was a canonical jump in power, it was explicitly a 7x difference.
- Black Hole feats in general are incredibly shaky, and imo should never be used as anything more than supporting evidence. Yes, Reborn is a reliable source in-verse, but that doesn't change the fact that Enma's black holes are obviously not shown to be anywhere near Tier 5 in scale. From the VSBW page on Black Hole Feats in Fiction:
- "In all cases, any given black hole must still have to behave realistically, of course." -- This statement alone should invalidate it. They do not look like black holes. They do not warp space at all. There is no gravitational lensing, or accretion discs. The "gravity like a star" doesn't do anything more impressive than pull Tsuna's body around, it doesn't even destroy the room they are in. Characters refer to its "magnetism" being overwhelming. Magnetism is not the same thing as gravity, calling into question the author's understanding of black holes. Black holes do have a magnetic field, but it isn't the black hole itself that creates it, but rather the accretion disc, which these black holes do not have. Now, this could be a mistranslation, so I would like to see the raws if anyone can find them. The source is chapter 331.
- The only thing, in the entire verse, that indicates anything near Tier 5 is just statements from Reborn. These are treated as reliable since he is a genius mathematician, but there is precedent for hyperbole. Byakuran said that the towers in the Choice arena were infinite, despite us seeing their tops at multiple points. Reborn also says that Tsuna would need the force of the Big Bang to destroy Enma's black holes, but we don't use that statement to upgrade him to 3-A.
Proposal 4: Drop the 5-A calc, and revert to scaling based on the stated multipliers
Agree: @Setsuna_tenma, @Aernasilver, @MasqueTLDF, @Expectro2000xxx (4)
Disagree: @Nierre, @Tetsuya1029 (2)
Neutral:
Summary:
Proposal 1: Redo the 8-A calc without vaporization, or use a separate calc to scale Varia Arc characters
Proposal 2: Re-calc the 6-C feat, using a method more in-line with the size of the eruption and with what volcanic eruptions actually look like
Proposal 3: Drop the 5-B scaling and replace it with what he used to have, that being upscaling from the Funeral Wreaths via stated multipliers.
Proposal 4: Drop the 5-A calc, and revert to scaling based on the stated multipliers
I know this is a massive downgrade for every calc but one, and that the big thread doing the upgrade was just a couple years ago, and that I participated in it, so sorry about the hassle. I just strongly feel that almost all of the current ratings vastly misrepresent the series' actual showings.
The verse in general is somewhat messy, which myself and others have tried to fix over the last few years. I plan on doing follow-up threads revising scaling, multipliers, and just general page presentation.
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