inFAMOUS Downgrade Revision

[Schnee_One]

Gentlemen, I believe that today is a sad day.

So, we have two issues here, one is the original High 7A calculation, which I have recently rechecked it has only reached 7A+ https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:The_Real_Eugene_Sims/InFAMOUS:_The_Beast's_Dark_Advent

The next issue is the recent Upscaling revision thread, unfortunately, not only is stacking calculations a massive issue now for upscaling, but the Feat is only 941 Megatons, just shy away from the necessary number to upscale.

SO for revisions, every single High 7A in the verse goes down to 7A+ with Exception of Beast Cole Macgrath has he is 2x the feat based on an absorption multiplier.

It's a sad day boys, but this opens up so many potential matches at the very least

@DMUA @Ugarik @The_Wright_Way

 

[DMUA]

I'm still going to hold to the fact I don't get why it's being divided in half to begin with

 

[The_Wright_Way]

I mean, they're going from near baseline High 7-A to the top of 7-A. This really isn't much of a downgrade. They should still be able to fight High 7-A characters just fine, hell they could still fight baseline 6-Cs with that gap.

Regardless, I'm fine with this once DMUA's concerns are answered.

 

[Schnee_One]

Bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Didn't the blog already include the 0.5 in the 0,5 * Mass * Velocity^2 formula? Unless the feat was done by someone with the 2x multiplier?

 

[Schnee_One]

No idea, @Ugarik Said to divide it in half and no there was no multiplier

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I suppose he probably just didn't see the 0.5 in the blog.

 

[Ugarik]

It's 0.25*m*v^2 for clouds expansion.

Cloud Calculations

Due to being virtually always present clouds are one of the most common objects affected by the attacks or powers of characters. As such how to calculate feats involving the creation, destruction or movement of clouds is of common interest. The first step necessary for any cloud calculation is...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[DMUA]

And now I remember, thank you

... That said, looking over the upscaling thread, I think the agreed value is that it needs to be with 3/4s of the next tier, which, considering the calc would be 941 Megatons, it is more than within that range

Like, even if this was to be applied it would still be basically irrelevant because any High 7-A near baseline would still pretty much be on the same boat

 

[Schnee_One]

Problem with that, that thread specifically points to upscaling being in the form of being vastly superior to someone in strength, Cole stomped the Beast because of the RFI which hard counters Beast super hard even while uncharged, and Beasts feat isn't a case of being incredibly superior to someone else in strength, it's just a debatably casual feat because he just woke up and did it.

The reasoning for upscaling is little bit more flimsy in this case and like you said, it's borderline irrelevant because of how close he is, so he might as well be 7A+ as an alternative

 

[Schnee_One]

I'll get a couple more people from the upscaling thread to see if they agree.

@Damage3245 @Armorchompy @DemonGodMitchAubin if you may

 

[DMUA]

Cole was already shredding the beast just with normal, non RFI projectiles, and even if we were to discount that, that feat was done weeks before the final showdown, where The Beast would have had plenty of time to increase his power via his natural output of Ray Sphere Radiation. On top of the fact he did it just by waking up.

 

[Schnee_One]

Already pointed out that waking up and doing a casual feat doesn't really quantify for being physically stronger

Cole didn't shred the Beast either, he was hurting him sure but he didn't completely wreck the Beast until he used his absolute strongest attack and decapitated it.

Beast supposedly growing stronger over weeks is kinda unquantifiable

 

[DMUA]

I don't see why a situation where you wouldn't be fully conscious and capable of using your abilities in full force wouldn't suggest they're stronger in better conditions but alright

He's just firing electricity, The Beast is being staggered and damaged by sheer force and eventually brought to his knees accordingly.

Would it really be a stretch to say they were at least 1.07 or so times more powerful though? Especially when we know a second Ray Sphere blast dramatically increased Evil Cole's strength?

 

[Schnee_One]

Beast was conscious, he just wasn't in full control of his abilities as John explains it.

Being hit with constant attacks from people comparable to you would make you stagger, if someone as strong as you threw constant punches at you especially at a weak spot you would be staggered and even knocked out, this was discussed on the thread.

Personally no, but accepted revisions say otherwise. Cole didn't go through a second Ray Sphere blast in Good and in Evil he doesn't upscale to 7A and I said he would be High 7A as Beast Cole because he absorbed the beast, hence a 2x multiplier. More importantly like I mentioned being superior on that thread means being vastly superior to someone in strength like one shotting them which is more quantifiable then a casual feat.

Like you said though it's literally 1.07x away from Baseline so this really isn't a big deal, he scales to a 941 megaton feat and potentially got stronger.

 

[DMUA]

immediately upon waking up he was just fully aware of the situation?

They aren't really hitting any weak spots in this case but the flurry is a large component, I suppose

The point is that any notable amount of ray sphere radiation like that, which The Beast would have been blasting across the country to serve his goal, dramatically increases their capabilities.

 

[Schnee_One]

Apparently since he immediately did the storm to transmute people to create a new body, though once again he states he wasn’t in control the entire time.

About the Beast, I don’t think he gets stronger through absorbing his own Radiation, we assumed that since his powers worked like a ray sphere until I realized how little sense that makes

 

[DMUA]

I mean like, isn't that what he does though? Like, the whole idea is that he is a living Ray Sphere. He just has an abundance of other powers for some reason.

 

[Schnee_One]

He creates other conduits like a Ray Sphere and spreads it yes, that doesn't mean he creates and absorbs it, the Ray Sphere doesn't make itself stronger by absorbing its own radiation

The upscaling was accepted for being far superior to someone else in strength, that simply isn't the case here, we assume someone is stronger through a feat that may have been casual and an assumed power boost, that doesn't fly anymore, and it's not a big downgrade anyway

Bump

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Yeah, but.... the Ray Sphere isn't itself a Conduit. The Beast is.

 

[Schnee_One]

I know, which is why it can't really be assumed he gains power by expelling power, it's like Natsu getting stronger off his own flames.

 

[DMUA]

Except Natsu is explicitly stated for that not to work for him

A statement that doesn't exist for The Beast

In fact, even if we want to say that it would be impossible for him to power up from RSB, don't conduits have accelerated development from just using their powers anyways?

 

[Schnee_One]

I don’t recall such a statement but no.

You and I both know we don’t assume a power without proof, we know that from being on the wiki for years. It doesn’t make sense that you become stronger by expending energy, it’s like a battery charging itself up by using electricity.

I’ve said it again, One shotting is considered to upscale, not casual feats or powering up. Even now upscaling with a specific multiplier is being debated as it is, this is simply the safest approach and is barely a relevant change, it is the simplest option

There isn’t much of a point to arguing a 1.07x difference.

 

[Schnee_One]

Bump

 

[Theglassman12]

Been a while since I played InFAMOUS 2, but didn't Cole in the beginning of the game shred apart the Beast's body? Wouldn't he easily upscale to High 7-A from that since that was at his prime before he had to hunt the blast shards to get his full power back?

 

[Schnee_One]

Nah, he blew his head off with his strongest attack, and destroying the head isn't considered a one shot since that's a weakpoint

 

[Theglassman12]

was that stated to be a weakpoint for the beast or is that more of a common sense thing?

 

[Schnee_One]

Common sense thing

 

[Theglassman12]

I feel that's a bit nitpicky, his overall durability should scale throughout his body. If he had specific weakpoints like how gigantic dead space monsters do then I can see it not scaling to cole physically.

 

[Schnee_One]

I can see your point, but that's what occurred in the revision, Cole also isn't much stronger then Beast without using his absolute strongest attack

 

[Theglassman12]

Would he at least get “High 7-A with his strongest attack”? Cause I feel like he should scale to baseline at the very least with his strongest ability.

 

[Schnee_One]

Ehhhhhhh potentially, but that still falls in the upscaling thigamajig that makes things more complicated

 

[Theglassman12]

Considering the feat is really close to baseline High 7-A, I wouldn't say it's too big of a deal? Pretty sure Tatsumaki was upscaled to Low 6-B back then because she had an extremely casual High 6-C feat that was really close to baseline Low 6-B, so I don't see how this can't be applied to Cole here since he's really close in the other tier.

 

[Schnee_One]

That was before the upscaling revisions, years before, so that's not the best example.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

This whole argument is so much more complicated than it needs to be imo.

 

[Schnee_One]

Which one and why? Because I agree, the upscaling is a pain

 

[Schnee_One]

Bump

 

[Schnee_One]

Bump

@Damage3245 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Armorchompy Can you guys help here?

 

[Armorchompy]

Could you summarize the issue?

 

[Schnee_One]

Cole is 1.07x away from baseline High 7A since the calc was redone, but the feat isn’t stated to be casual and the whole “Conduits get stronger over time” is barely quantifiable

Cole can one shot the guy who did the feat with his absolute strongest attack, but is fairly equal otherwise, so with exception of Beast Cole, everyone is 7A+ except for Cole who is 7A+ with a baseline High 7A attack