Inazuma eleven power level revision

[Jinx666]

Thats a tough question, because the anime and games have both came off eachother beforehand.

The games also dont make powerscaling clear, while the anime gives us goal situations and how the match actually plays out so we can use it to determine powers. Thats why i've been using it as a mix.

Either way, the Fran stuff as a crossover, and as something ever referred to again, cant be considered canon unless you can find a statement etc

 

[SyckInsanity]

The games (canon) hold stuff like Aphrodi genuinely stopping Kogure with Heaven's Time (outside a match), Burn ( or Gazel) destroying a rock, Desarm (or Epsilon) creating weird whirlpools on the ocean, and Pokemon-esque tier descriptions for equipments and hissatsus, though I don't know if those are in the Original Japanese game. So it would be safe to assume Fran could do that bizarre stuff as well.


Fran's hissatsus and some descriptions are in the game too, don't know if that would count.


Even then, other GO antagonists are known for using their hax (or technology) outside matches, like Ozrock (ayylmao) and Saru (200yo+ future)

One sealed-destroyed the moon and the other was opening wormholes using his gun, which had some of his aura/genes or somethi-. Wait, was Saru time-travelling on his own through his SSC power or technology? LOL.

 

[Alonik]

Snip

I have a question, between anime or game, which one come first?The game. Even here on the official site of inazuma, which only considers the game as canon, has the notes of the game.

The game. Even here on the official site of inazuma, which only considers the game as canon, has the notes of the game.

https://www.inazuma.jp/inazuma/topics/index.html

 

[LinkSlayerLvX]

Ok, then...

I will create more Inazuma's profiles soon as possible :3

 

[Jinx666]

Snip

I have a question, between anime or game, which one come first?The game. Even here on the official site of inazuma, which only considers the game as canon, has the notes of the game.

The game. Even here on the official site of inazuma, which only considers the game as canon, has the notes of the game.
https://www.inazuma.jp/inazuma/topics/index.html

I dont see how that proves as Canon?

The games and the anime aren't accurate to say which is canon, since one comes before vie versa constantly.

The anime still gives us the canon way the matches go too, which is what we probably need. Im for putting a few game notes mixed within though

 

[Alonik]

snip

I dont see how that proves as Canon?
The games and the anime aren't accurate to say which is canon, since one comes before vie versa constantly.

The anime still gives us the canon way the matches go too, which is what we probably need. Im for putting a few game notes mixed within though

There are several notes there in the log of 2007 until the release date, I passed the information, you just need read them. In addition the game came out first, and is constantly >>>>WRITTEN<<<< by Akihiro Hino how original work, while Anime and other things are his writing partners, and he just supervises. But what should be proved if it's canon or not is the anime, which has a messy timeline and doesn't even have the routes.

 

[Antvasima]

What are the TL;DR conclusions here?

 

[Jinx666]

@Alonik

All im seeing is a few updates during that time. What specifically says its the canon?

The game came out first compared to Season 1, but then the animes started coming out more so than the games, like IE2 and now Ares and probbaly Orion. Hino has writing staff on the games too im sure, and practically every creator for games has more than one WoG. It isn't just them.

Why are the routes important? Those are game material, Most of the route teams aren't canonical and only made for people to play against in the game. The anime doesn't really have a messy timeline either other than maybe the Gryphons movie, since it is quite obvious. The games don't give proper powerscaling things either due to type effectiveness etc, just a few feats.

 

[Alonik]

@Alonik
All im seeing is a few updates during that time. What specifically says its the canon?

The game came out first compared to Season 1, but then the animes started coming out more so than the games, like IE2 and now Ares and probbaly Orion. Hino has writing staff on the games too im sure, and practically every creator for games has more than one WoG. It isn't just them.

This doesn't justify the anime being canonical, but Level-5 always falters with Akihiro Hino when it comes to Inazuma Eleven games, they require a much larger production than just weekly episodes, which is why some games lag behind. , including Ares himself you mentioned had a date before Ares' anime, not after, but what happened? Level-5 company that Akihiro is CEO, faltered with the production of Inazuma Eleven, and so the new game has not yet come out, including it would be a game only for the title only of Ares, but has now become a new game because delay, which will encompass Ares and Orion and more.

Here is a blog for the game that was called Inazuma Eleven Balance of Ares and because of the production delay will now be called Inazuma Eleven Eiyuutachi no Great Road.

This is an official level-5 blog, it is redirected even on the main page of the inazuma eleven official website: https://www.level5.co.jp/blog/

"Why are the routes important? Those are game material, Most of the route teams aren't canonical and only made for people to play against in the game."

Wrong, the Ogres and other teams for example are additional routes, and are considered canonical, and are adapted as historical points including.

And yes the timeline of anime and movies are messy.

In the game, unlike spin-off's animated series, the Ogres Team is something extremely important within Inazuma Eleven, which is the existence of Canon Endou in Inazuma Eleven.

In the game Endou and his team have to face the ogres in a story parallel to the FFI, but that doesn't mean it's not canonical, it means that the ogres tried to infer Endou's past without destroying the entire timeline. , unlike the Ogres movie, where it's such a plot rush situation, we see that they just go back to the past since before the FF, and reach the FF final and destroy the Zeus school. Plus it makes the Canon Endou move the timeline by bringing FFI characters to the FFI "final", and getting them to meet future sagas characters ahead of time, which would break the whole FFI arc in half just for lack of experience. with the academy Aliea, and her characters who are part of inazuma Japan.

That's a pathetic chronological, for you to really beat them in the game, you face them over and over, and only after you have the first end of the game (as soon as you finish the FFI beating the Little Giants), do you face them by going to future, not waging a battle in the past to bring about a chain effect and destroy the future just as it should have happened in the movie.

In addition, in the very first completion of the game, we are presented with the arc of demons and angels, and it is not something that appears in the middle of the FFI, like the anime, it happens in all inazumas incidentally.

But that was just the chronological errors that I wanted to make a point of, as there are several.

The important thing is that OFFICIALLY, the animated series of inazuma eleven Ares is not based on the anime, but is a continuation of the game Inazuma Eleven.

http://level5ia.com/news/new-titles-announced-at-“level-5-vision-2016-new-heroes”-event/

 

[Antvasima]

So what should we do here?

 

[Jinx666]

I dont know which one to take more canonical, however there are more logical advantages when considering the anime, such as the way the matches go, what blocks what etc, which is why i think a mixture may be in order. We don't want to treat the characters like we do Pokemon.

Ogre movie messed it up yeah (It was mainly meant for fanservice tbh), but i wouldn't consider the Ogre movie as the main canon material for that though. Only really things like Shinkuuma could block Death Spear etc, since with games its all based on stats, elements, levels etc. . But what i mean is routes that aren't linked into the story unlike Ogres, which are really just challenges for grinding, making CPU teams to fight etc. Like, we wouldn't consider teams like this to be canon right?

We can deff use the game for how the storyline goes ig, but the anime also touches up things like the Chaos arc or the small Heaven and Angels arc, in which aren't part of the games main story. It's why i feel a mix is in order of each canon. Not to mention many of the games hyperbole statements.

Well idk if this could be established, but a similar situation happened in Chrono Stone didn't it? They met with Endou from before even Season 1, and due to the multiple versions of himself across several alternate dimensions, their power was boosted to the point Endou developed a Kenshin and could stop Alpha's shots even before the OG inazuma. I know this was after Ogre and everything, but this is still something established in the universe of Inazuma, both game and anime. It could at least explain the astounding power-up due to time shenanigans.

But Inazuma has always given Endou crazy unrealistic power-ups mid match, they even went ahead and said its an ability he has for himself. It's stupid but thats just how they do it. The movie did it m u c h worse though, so i can agree to follow the games on that one

Its fair what you say yeah, and this is really all a bi-product of Hino's questionable way of writing, wth no clear confirmation which one is canon and whenever, which is why i feel really we can be allowed to deduct which ones to follow and in what aspects. Mainly the use of the anime for powerscaling hissatsus as the canon way the matches happened (unless maybe the games established differently), while we perhaps present it in the game's storyline, with few exceptions for things like Chaos.

 

[Ionliosite]

when we got low 2C figet spinners

Just reading BeyBlade being called figet spinner is an insult.

 

[Jinx666]

Also just to ask but, i notice on Asuto's page, he's Supersonic.

Could we not count him as having Massively Hypersonic speeds due to him actually transforming into lightning (and did so once in order to defend the goal rather than perform the hissatsu).

Don't know if its scaleable unless someone on the pitch has reacted to it before though

 

[Jinx666]

We could also say Fuujin Raijin is double the power of Majin the Hand, seeing as Endou literally just creates two of the majins (And maybe with Fuujin Raijin ghost though that was used to counter Time Trance only), which we could probably scale. We can probably use mutlipliers for the obvious combo moves too

 

[LinkSlayerLvX]

We could also say Fuujin Raijin is double the power of Majin the Hand, seeing as Endou literally just creates two of the majins (And maybe with Fuujin Raijin ghost though that was used to counter Time Trance only), which we could probably scale. We can probably use mutlipliers for the obvious combo moves too

Interesting....

 

[Jinx666]

Apparently the black hole feat in Go Galaxy would be High 3-A so...thats cool.

We probably still need feats for Go (Hakuryuus hurricane and use of scalings) and Chrono Stone, but then after tha perhaps we can make some Go profiles

 

[SyckInsanity]

Reminder Ozrock on his own got moon-sealing or moon-destroying powers, and Faram Ships destroyed his planet.

Galaxy Aliens had some bizarre technology powers too.

 

[Antvasima]

So what should we do here?

^

 

[Alonik]

So what should we do here?

^

I really don't know, the folks there said that the descriptions are hyperbole, even though there are many feats in the work that show they are not. If we are going to put the descriptions as hyperbole, all profiles should be deleted, after all shuuya goenji energizing a ball until it catches fire and kicking for the goal is also hyperbole according to @Jinx666

Or we should stop personal incredulity, since if we put a description as hyperbole, we can't say that shuya goenji kicks a fireball, since the only thing that confirms that it has a fireball is the description. Note:

He kicking the ball and destroying a piece of the field does not prove that the ball is energized with fire, only that he destroyed that lawn, the description is the most readable source to say that he sets fire to the ball.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[SyckInsanity]

Well, I've got no further proof, yet.

Game: Zeus/Aphrodi turn the field pitch into lava crater, Aphrodi stops Kogure using Heaven's Time, Burn destroys a rock/boulder, Desarm/Epsilon make those weird whirpools

Anime: Then you have Kira Hiroto jumping over Iwato's The Wall, it was actually one of the few times they prove it's concrete in a way: https://youtu.be/Ic5EQYbXLok


Endou and Rococo used God Hand to stop an incoming tire against Natsumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt71lZw5dOU


For example, in Ares, Seishou Goalkeeper uses some sort of eathquake/ground-breaking technique that literally moves the entire goalpost with a crater: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOOFHeqvbJM


I think characters like Saru, Ozrock, Asta, Fran, SSC, El Dorado, Zanark, etc. All try to show some sort of "we the real deal" type of way. their powers are not just hissatsus, it's a natural thing


What more can be found in the anime: Tsunami using his Tsunami Boost to crash/destroy the net made of wood/sticks (ie, the water is "real" in a way), Touko using shock/lightning to scare some creeps. GO movie also had.. Kidou, I think using Koutei Penguin 2 to break steel/iron bars prison or something, same movie where Hakuryuu's wind and hurricanes were breaking the place he was training. he also did the crater thing.


Honestly, if I was to put it, they simply choose to not use their full power or something, just like Reize and Edgar managed to break or slash the goalnet, while others choose just not to.

Kinda like DB, all those ki blasts/energy attacks left and right, almost nothing destroyed, at all. but you know those dudes are waaaaay above that. They find their own way to hold/suppress some of their power/DC, even berserkers like Broli, Kale, Boo, etc.

 

[Jinx666]

@Alonik

I'm not saying Gouenji's feat was hyperbole, Gouenji's feat is perfectly fine, everyone can set the ball on fire basically or create giant tornadoes, but he sets pretty much the minimum bar of power. It's things like saying Ryuusei Blade has the power of the Big Bang, or Epsilon can destroy planets just for wearing boots, is the hyperbole. Its more the crazy translated statements than the actual visible feats.

I thnk the Gouenji feat was calced at Room level anyway, but we're probably only counting 'End of Season' forms for Gouenji so he would start off 8-A too.

Its just selective when the goal breaks, but it usually doesn't. The goals breaking can deff be used for scaling, and goals from different stages in the series have differing durabilities, (Note Astro Break didn't break the goal in S3). No one really holds back with their shots, they just simply dont break.

 

[Alonik]

There's no basis for saying it's hyperbole. And it is these descriptions that make the techniques. Also, the Ryuusei blade is not hyperbole at any time, it is simply outlier. Akihiro Hino simply saw that it made no sense for Hiroto to have a universal Destructive Power, and placed it with the destructive level of a meteor.

Epsilon being able to destroy planets through boots is a justification of power. If we take Captain America for example, his tier increases excessively when he uses Mjolnir, not hyperbole, just increased powers through artifacts.

You're just selecting what suits you, not the work, after all saginuma's abilities have been added to it because of the game descriptions.

Saginuma Osamu

Energy Projection, Fire Manipulation (via element), Wormhole Creation, Metal Manipulation, Energy Manipulation, Gravity Manipulation, Illusion Creation, Portal Creation, Teleportation and BFR (With Aliea soccer ball) | Wind Manipulation, Statistics Amplification, Flight, Light Manipulation, Possible Resistance to Time Stop (Based on speed scaling)

And again, there's no basis for saying that someone using a weapon could destroy a planet is hyperbole.

"But it's just a skill description and some feats"

We also accept the descriptions and some feats of Saint Seiya, even without the feats OF ALL skills/techniques.

 

[Jinx666]

Theres no basis for it being true either. The descriptions all just seem to be that of hyperbole to hype up and oversell their items in a rather explosive fashion. It matches the sort of 'hype energy' if thats how i can say it, Inazuma tries for to give things its cool factor. Fact is, for the likes of feats of these size, we would definitely need an actual feat rather than statement because its just way too crazy compared to what we see. Hissatsu's in general too usually have very misleading gimmicks, Theres one called Planet Shield where the user pulls a literal Planet to defend against Offense, but even then the Planet is only a few times bigger than the actual players. The statements should be just as iffy as the visuals.

I added those in the Power and abilities because thats the main gimmick of the hissatsu. Gravitation does, as we see, create stronger gravity. Illusion Ball does actually create illusions. Epsilon Boots are only stated to 'destroy planets' in a english translated game decription (Which mind you, isn't the best translation in the world, no surprise if the english team improvised some of these manuals), but has never shown any feats close to that scale. Nor has Gran with Universal.

I get that, but these are boots, something that unlike Captain's shield, would hold requirements for someone to be able to use. Desarm has shown nothing to which he can be considered him being able to survive using boots of planet levelling proportions. And Inazuma has shown characters can 'over-exert' themselves (even with using items in Orion) plenty of times so its not like that realistic fact can be disregarded. Kogure stopped Desarm's shot, strong enough to blow back Raimon at the time, where he was wearng Epsilon boots in the anime, but then Whirlwind Force from adult Kogure got broken through by Shinsuke all the way in Go.

Saying the Ryuusei Blade is comparable to the Big Bang is also very Hyperbole, and just shows these statements shouldn't at all be trusted when it comes to power. That means Universal in just season 2, and then it became a fodder shot. Universal is something thats not even in Galaxy, with the final feat being able to destroy a Black Hole (High 3-A from what ive been told), so why wouldn't it be hyperbole?

 

[Alonik]

"Fact is, for the likes of feats of these size, we would definitely need an actual feat rather than statement because its just way too crazy compared to what we see." We really don't have to. This wiki accepts things like "Athena's exclamation is compared to the big bang that spawned the universe" even though it didn't do any of it by destroying such an area. To deny this in inazuma eleven because the characters climb among themselves and do not destroy everything out there is hypocrisy, and to benefit one work over another not out of personal unbelief.

"Theres one called Planet Shield where the user pulls a literal Planet to defend against Offense, but even then the Planet is only a few times bigger than the actual players. The statements should be just as iffy as the visuals." It's not visual, it's just not the size of a planet, it's simple. This is fiction, do you accept that one character uses a wormhole to defend the ball, but do not accept that another can play one microscopic planet on another? There are several works that use small planets, and I can mention things used here in this wiki, such as simply this solar system inside metropolis in the Trinity comic.

"Which mind you, isn't the best translation in the world, no surprise if the english team improvised some of these manuals" Well, then you would have to prove that this translation is wrong. Just as I proved that the other one was wrong there.

"I get that, but these are boots, something that unlike Captain's shield, would hold requirements for someone to be able to use."

Okay, where are the requirements?

"Desarm has shown nothing to which he can be considered him being able to survive using boots of planet levelling proportions."

He has one statement, that's enough, he was energized by the Aliea meteorite, which passed energy to him through his uniforms and boots. The only way you can prove that he didn't have it is to show that the equipment was not energized by a mystical meteor that granted it.

"And Inazuma has shown characters can 'over-exert' themselves (even with using items in Orion) plenty of times so its not like that realistic fact can be disregarded."

9. Association fallacy

"Kogure stopped Desarm's shot, strong enough to blow back Raimon at the time, where he was wearng Epsilon boots in the anime, but then Whirlwind Force from adult Kogure got broken through by Shinsuke all the way in Go."

Outlier. This we can consider two simple things: Kogure no longer exercised as he should, so he may have lost the level he had against Desarm, or is simply an outlier. And you know very well, since you yourself understand that this feat is absurd.

"Saying the Ryuusei Blade is comparable to the Big Bang is also very Hyperbole, and just shows these statements shouldn't at all be trusted when it comes to power."

Ryuusei Blade is not comparable to the Big Bang, and I explained that in the argument, it was a mistake and Akihiro Hino fixed it. Ryuusei Blade description: Kick the ball with the destructive speed of a meteor hurtling through space!


"That means Universal in just season 2, and then it became a fodder shot. Universal is something thats not even in Galaxy, with the final feat being able to destroy a Black Hole (High 3-A from what ive been told), so why wouldn't it be hyperbole?"

You are confusing hyperbole with Outlier. Even if Ryuusei Blade was that wrong description, it wouldn't make all techniques outlier, which is the right term of what you're talking about, a level doesn't make sense of its scale within a phase where the characters show deeds and descriptions only City - Planet.

Outlier

Hyperbole by cambridge

a way of speaking or writing that makes someone or something sound much bigger, better, smaller, worse, more unusual, etc., than they are.

Literature:

Hyperbole is also the use of such language to express humor or great emotio.

From the moment Akihiro Hino likes to work with black holes, warp speed stuff, and has a lot of feats up planets in the work of soccer players kicking the ball at that level, it's not hyperbole at any time.

 

[Jinx666]

1) The wiki, despite being one community, isn't all a cluster of people with the right opinion to do things. If there is fault with statements or lack of evidence or feats to reasonably back it up, then i know i and others would then be skeptical. We judge statements based on many things, but there are things in Inazuma that can point to the exaggeration of statements such as 'with the power of the big bang'. Shouldn't sacrifice the quality of pages for it, we want them accurate.

2) A character does use a wormhole yes, but on a very, very miniature scale. Its hard to even consider it a true wormhole either if im honest, since Hissatsu's are really just visual effects placed onto a move most of the time. Tiger Drive doesn't summon a real giant Tiger, nor does the character instantly travel to space in a lot of the moves. They even showed with Heaven's Time it wasn't a legit time stop, and rather use of hypnosis. That being said, if Wormhole can be calculated, then by all means.

3) I can't prove its wrong nor do i wanna go through the hastle of finding it. But its an english translation. This is the same people who made Fubuki a northerner accent wise, or someone like Tsurugi Russian, and added in common lines from those ares into dialgoue. That at least shows they took a lot of liberties in one part.

4) Perhaps the durability to wield planet levelling boots and not die before you can even hope to sum up that amount of power? Every action has equal and opposite reaction.

5) He energized his power (which was a finite source), but what exactly suggests the Aliea rock can equate to that of Planet level? All we honestly have seen is a few City Block feats at best from Gemini and Epsilon, the two teams that used the Aliea Rock. Should also be said that the Aliea Rock buffed them specifically, not their clothing. The Aliea rock can buff someone like it did Fudou or Kazemaru by using it as a pretty necklace. In cases like this, in order to support a statement, you'd need a feat from the Aliea rock thats Planet or higher, rather than backwards tracing it.

6) why would that be Association Fallacy? You do realise that over-exerting yourself actually exists. Everyone can over-exert, if they couldn't they would have infinite energy. Are you saying Desarm has infinite energy, despite the source downright stating to be finite on how he had to charge?

7) I dont think so. Theres quite a lot to say Go is on the same level as S2. Kogure as an adult who still plays soccer (he didn't quit) and was still a member of the FFI would not be weakened so heavily to the point it reached a high fodder level. Maybe rusty, but not to that extent. Thats unreasonable to asume so. Other evidence is the use of moves like Bakunetsu Storm in Go, a move originating from S2, the use of Kenshins that buff their users considerably to the point it wouldn't be hard to say they would surpass a fair share of S2 chars, and the fact Go is a 10 year timeskip, where its stated and shown that football has increased in both power and popularity (shown by the founding of kenshins). Of course after S2 and 3, the general level will increase to that size.

8) Yeah, that was in a different game, they change a lot of descriptions as games pass, but do keep in mind its a translation. I'd imagine the same person didn't translate and write all these at a time I would imagine Hino also personally did not write these himself since he has a whole crew of people. Hino is only really responsible for the story. Either way, does the power of a meteor sound stronger than a planet busting attack? We all know Gran is much stronger than Desarm. Thats another thing, relying on hissatsu statements when the individual power of the character matters the most is unreliable.

9) No, it is hyperbole in the way the statements are written. Its overexaggerated to give the moves a cool factor to them. Inazuma is all about over exaggerated football after all, and while its not a stretch to say they're always over exagg, they certainly need more evidence for that of planet-universal busting in this case. Outlier isn't the case because iffy exaggerated comments shouldn't be used to this scale when there is no external case to say that they're true. Outlier suggests that everything else lines up perfectly, except this one point that contradicts well enough to be disregarded. Which is not the case when a move called 'Iron Wall', can apparently block a meteor striking power ball, let alone the big bang.

And again, the power of these moves depend on the player. Apparently their 'passion for sakka' or some cheesy thing like that, but you cant ignore it when someones Ryuusei Blade >>> Someone elses Ryuusei Blade. They don't have set power like you suggest.

Yes, he does, i've put forward we can perhaps calculate the power required for that of Astro Break, that did show a small level of a present vacuum, as well as everything else you said. But really, they're dumbed down on what they're supposed to be for the sake of being cool. You've also gotta consider how stupid it is these things llike warp speed than can go FTL (Actual Warp exists in galaxy), but still take time to run across a soccer pitch of same size to us. It's anime, and because of these logical inconsstencies, again, for the sake of being cool little moves, we shouldn't always treat them like an actual thing. Inazuma is over the top and it knows it.

With all that being said, can we rather disregard the use of bold game statements and instead look into finding the power of actual feats, like White Hurricane, and use that for our scaling. It certainly gives us a clearer result.

 

[Alonik]

"If there is fault with statements or lack of evidence or feats to reasonably back it up, then i know i and others would then be skeptical. We judge statements based on many things, but there are things in Inazuma that can point to the exaggeration of statements such as 'with the power of the big bang'. Shouldn't sacrifice the quality of pages for it, we want them accurate." Dude I already refuted this big bang stop several times during this conversation, and you insist on continuing at this point that doesn't even exist. You are being very partial, to the point of getting a single wrong quote and wanting to GENERALIZE all the techniques, and on top of that I already explained with scan of the game in my previous comment, which was ignored. Also, I didn't say other pages are wrong, I drew a point between saint seiya and inazuma eleven where special abilities have the same context, and if accepting one and not the other that is the same perspective is hypocrisy.

"A character does use a wormhole yes, but on a very, very miniature scale."

A wormhole can be any size, it is an expansion of space and time that connects two points in space. You are confusing it with the calculable Black Hole, unlike the wormhole which is totally variant and incalculable, and one of the most common skills of fiction.

"since Hissatsu's are really just visual effects placed onto a move most of the time."

Okay, so delete all profiles based on visual effects techniques, which are basically ALL. You're just taking what suits you best from the work to make a profile, it's just messing up Akihiro's work with your lack of common sense.

"They even showed with Heaven's Time it wasn't a legit time stop, and rather use of hypnosis." This is only in the anime and air-only exclusivity, which is another timeline and a REBOOT, it does not affect Aphrodi's ability in Inazuma Eleven 1 to Inazuma Eleven Go Galaxy at all.

" I can't prove its wrong nor do i wanna go through the hastle of finding it. But its an english translation. This is the same people who made Fubuki a northerner accent wise, or someone like Tsurugi Russian, and added in common lines from those ares into dialgoue. That at least shows they took a lot of liberties in one part."I thought you wanted to bring legitimate information to profiles, so will we just be based on the assumptions of everything you think about inazuma? If you have a translation, should we listen to what you think instead of bringing you the right material?

"Perhaps the durability to wield planet levelling boots and not die before you can even hope to sum up that amount of power? Every action has equal and opposite reaction." Okay, prove it. After all in the work both in the game and in the anime show them being energized, but where does your argument go into this proving that they could not stand the energy even if they were already holding the Aliea meteorite energy?

"He energized his power (which was a finite source), but what exactly suggests the Aliea rock can equate to that of Planet level?"

Look at the utterance of the topic, the Aliea jewel that made the school attire, the school attire is said to devise the ability to destroy planets precisely because of the energy of the jewelry. Also, it doesn't matter if the jewelry has infinite energy or not. Now someone who has received an energy FOR EXAMPLE; solar system will not be solar system because it is finite? Obviously not, and as has been shown, even though they spent the energies of the jewelry, they absorbed into their clothing which absorbed the energy into their body.

"Should also be said that the Aliea Rock buffed them specifically, not their clothing"

You are only using anime as your base and true what is wrong because it is just a spin-off. And in the anime itself it's often said it's made of jewelry; dark balls, epsilon uniform, chaos, diamond dust, and etc.

And as I said, anime doesn't matter, the game that is canon.

"Are you saying Desarm has infinite energy, despite the source downright stating to be finite on how he had to charge?"

I never said that, because further down I said that Kogure didn't have the same energy, stop making scarecrow.

"I dont think so. Theres quite a lot to say Go is on the same level as S2. Kogure as an adult who still plays soccer (he didn't quit) and was still a member of the FFI would not be weakened so heavily to the point it reached a high fodder level. Maybe rusty, but not to that extent. Thats unreasonable to asume so."

Wrong, keep playing soccer is not the same as playing with the same commitment. Kogure was turned into a businessman, and played soccer like a robbie coaching an elderly / old people team, you're just ignoring the context and putting information out of context. Akizora Challengers (Kogure's charity team)

"Other evidence is the use of moves like Bakunetsu Storm in Go, a move originating from S2, the use of Kenshins that buff their users considerably to the point it wouldn't be hard to say they would surpass a fair share of S2 chars, and the fact Go is a 10 year timeskip, where its stated and shown that football has increased in both power and popularity (shown by the founding of kenshins). Of course after S2 and 3, the general level will increase to that size."

So the hissatsus has the same level just because it is the same? Obviously not, they are not. Techniques evolve and do not have the same power as the other. The best example of this in the series is the god hand of Tachimukai, it does not have the same level as the god hand of rococo, not even Endou, which we can say that tied with that of Endou, or releases the same energy.

"I'd imagine the same person didn't translate and write all these at a time I would imagine Hino also personally did not write these himself since he has a whole crew of people." Yes you only imagine, but he who writes the entire work, as he himself comments on his blog.

"Either way, does the power of a meteor sound stronger than a planet busting attack? Nothing prevents, this is just a fictional material, is what Hino has established in his universe, as many works here in this wiki also do.

"How can superman talk in space? How can superman speak at the speed of light?"

Seriously, is that kind of argument going to be used?

"No, it is hyperbole in the way the statements are written. Its overexaggerated to give the moves a cool factor to them. Inazuma is all about over exaggerated football after all, and while its not a stretch to say they're always over exagg, they certainly need more evidence for that of planet-universal busting in this case. Outlier isn't the case because iffy exaggerated comments shouldn't be used to this scale when there is no external case to say that they're true. Outlier suggests that everything else lines up perfectly, except this one point that contradicts well enough to be disregarded. Which is not the case when a move called 'Iron Wall', can apparently block a meteor striking power ball, let alone the big bang."

There is nothing about hyperbole in writing descriptions of something, this is something you are making up, descriptions have no hyperbole because they simply fit into the context of the work. They are not made to hype anything, otherwise the last arc of inazuma eleven characters would not kick a ball to destroy a black hole bigger than a solar system.


Inazuma Eleven Go 3 Galaxy - Black Hole

As we can see, akihiro loves working with black holes, which are most descriptions of his techniques, so they can't be taken for hyperbole, as there is a legitimate feat of players coming together to stop a bigger one than the solar system.

Also, you are being very skeptical that you want to add level and argue just because of the name of an iron wall technique. It is totally controversial to say that descriptions are hyperbole, without giving any coherent information why their grammatical agreement is that. After all, as I showed akihiro loves working with Black Hole, and for example as the strongest players in the work have destroyed a really big one, it is no hyperbole for a weaker player to create a black hole on a much smaller scale like this:


can apparently block a meteor striking power ball, let alone the big bang. Yes, the same work where players catch a ball, energize it with various energies and kick in a mega jump and throw it off a planet to destroy a black hole larger than a solar system. Plus you don't add points other than Kiyama's Ryuusei Blade technique, which I already refuted to have the power of the big bang.

"And again, the power of these moves depend on the player. Apparently their 'passion for sakka' or some cheesy thing like that, but you cant ignore it when someones Ryuusei Blade >>> Someone elses Ryuusei Blade. They don't have set power like you suggest." Intriguing, since up there you argued that there is a classic technique during go, so they have the same level, but not now. You even refuted the point above Go and its level against the scale of kogure and Desarm.

"But really, they're dumbed down on what they're supposed to be for the sake of being cool. You've also gotta consider how stupid it is these things llike warp speed than can go FTL (Actual Warp exists in galaxy), but still take time to run across a soccer pitch of same size to us. It's anime, and because of these logical inconsstencies, again, for the sake of being cool little moves, we shouldn't always treat them like an actual thing. Inazuma is over the top and it knows it."

This goes exactly what I said about personal unbelief. You're catching on things like the character runs on a field so he can't have extreme speed. The characters have the speed to cross the field in the blink of an eye since the first game with a teikoku, where sakuma is being as fast as the eyes of onlookers, he runs across the field and disappears from the human eye. What in this wiki is subsonic speed. But all profiles here accept MHS speed for them, which would be enough to cross countries easily, so keep on stuffing with personal incredulity like "Ah but they take time to cross the field" Without any proof, just because in football the game It takes 30 minutes to finish, it means nothing.

So no, it's not just cute special moves or something. In inazuma eleven several of these techniques are described in real time with the story, especially in inazuma eleven where characters manipulate the timeline with a ball, and even throw ball into black holes. And just having some feats for some of these techniques is enough to classify ALL.

For example:
I do not support using the anime, but as you only seem to see it, here is a technique of the game, where her description is this:


In the game:


Taiyou - Sunshine Storm - Taiyou Shin Apollo (Armed) Inazuma Eleven GO 2 Chrono Stone

And in the anime we have this Taiyo Amemiya feat applying it.


Inazuma ElevenGO vs Danball Senki W Sunshine Storm

Lightning Accel
Game:


Description:

Òü▓Òü¿ÒüÖÒüÿÒü«Òü▓ÒüïÒüäÕàëÒüîÒüïÒüæÒéüµè£ÒüæÒéïÒÇéÒéóÒââÒü¿ÒüäÒüåÚûôÒééÒü¬ÒüäÒü®Òü«Òü¥ÒéäÚǃÒüòÒüá!

translate

The person's comes through a little light shines. It's just so fast!

In anime






White Hurricane



Hakuryuu's Moveset in Inazuma Eleven Go Strikers 2013

Anime
Anime is just a spin off, so if it's just hyperbole, what would be the point in the anime adapting Hakiryu's hyperbole as a legitimate achievement? As we can see here, the storm it creates covers the whole of Japan, but it's hyperbole, after all it came from the description of the game. Not?


Hakuryu White Hurricane

The biggest proof that the descriptions are not hyperbole is because they are story content, if you play the game you will understand that. A description of an outfit is a historical point in inazuma eleven, as the details of the story are writers in such descriptions as Natsumi the president of the Raimon school, something not shown in the anime, and even the work becomes much more understandable as she exercises the her rights as a Raimon to put Endou as Raimon Technician next to Megane's hacking. Unlike the anime Megane only hacks the data from the fifth sector, and they leave it at that, but in real history raimon's position is exercised over it.


There's a lot more information that materializes everything as not hyperbole. If you want to continue with personal incredulity, I can do nothing. But you can't just define the descriptions as hyperbole without any means, mix a spin-off with canon, and still use a description adaptation within the spin off, which you called hyperbole. Everything is hyperbole or nothing in the works is. Choose, and please stop it big bang, as there is no big bang power hiroto. By the way, things like tiger driver and etc are spirits.

 

[Alonik]

@Antvasima This is my last comment, after Jinx666 answering my last, do what you think is best for the wiki, I just ask you to stop mixing the inazuma eleven canon with the spin off (anime). @Jinx666 is creating a work acceptable to his understanding, and not what the author wrote in the game, he's mixing it all up.

 

[Antvasima]

I regrettably don't have enough time available to properly read and evaluate all of that text.

Perhaps you could provide easy to understand quite brief summaries instead?

 

[Jinx666]

1) It isn't hypocrisy. Statements should be taken differently per universe, because sometimes in universes there aren't the feats credible enough to back it up. I don't know what you mean by the rest of it. My only meaning with the big bang quote is that, we really shouldn't take these statements to complete heart as shown. They can overexaggerate and not make sense. And it's not only this one either, i'll get to another example later.

2) Then...its not calcable then is it? What can we derive from it, it's not really a feat of power, and its a rather low tier move to the point it makes no sense. The wormhole in at least size and diameter is very small if it can fit in a goal.

3) 'Most of the time'. They are just visual effects a lot of the time, however there are instances where they actually have made physical constructs, Like the Wall, or made actual Hurricanes like WH. But yes, a lot of them are jst blatant visual effects.

If you need an example, what about the many, many instances where a hissatsu is shown to damage that of the field, but then we cut to the next pan and nothing at all is affected. Like Death Crater i suppose. It's really hard to take them as anything more than visuals a lot of the time, but there are refutes to that which we can consider.

4) Another timeline, except Heaven's Time was also broken through in the original. It's always odd how only Nepper and no one else on Chaos could have got past that. I suggested speed scaling, but now Orion has cleared it up. Ares timeline also follows that of after Season 1, Heavens Time's debut. So it's not like only Ares/Orion is saying its not legit time stop when it links up to the very first season. There's also hypnosis techniques like Ghost Lock in the original.

Both OG and Ares/Orion Inazuma are written by Hino despite different Timelines, There was no explanation given on how Nepper could escape time stop in the original to say its a rehash, and creators are allowed to go back and explain things in-verse that clear up past plot questions. It's the only thing we got.

5) Er, i can't translate Japanese, nor do i have time to find screenshots. My point as a whole is that the English translation team took many liberties, they didn't strictly follow what the characters are meant to say in the Japanese text, given how much they've changed up dialogue to fit english standards. If you want to look them up, translate thhem, and show they correlate then thats fine, im not even suggesting they dont, but the move manuals do suggest highly overexaggerated explanations. Why do you think people don't use English dub for statements? (Bolded because i want you to answer this)

6) Prove what? That Desarm can't handle planet level attacks? That seems like something that needs to be proven by you to be the case rather than me proving he cant. Like seriously, what other solid planet level attacks have there been in Inazuma?

You can't tell me to prove he isn't planet level without providing any case that why he would be planet level. Yes, the games said Epsilon's boots can destroy planets in a move manual small desciption that exaggerates and is translated with liberties. It's not plausible enough im afraid, nor does it even line up with what both the games and the anime show.

7) Where was it stated the Aliea rock made their clothes? I don't at all recall that. It's more the Kira technology if anything, but its the humans themself that harness the enery of the Aliea rock, not the clothes. Their power doesn't come from clothes.

"the school attire is said to devise the ability to destroy planets precisely because of the energy of the jewelry", no it isn't. The english description said the clothes could, but theres no confirmation the actual kits hold the power. The Kits, Gloves, Boots etc. are used as Item mechanics in the game anyway, Its an RPG element.

Again though, the Aliea Rock powers up the person physically. It doesn't power up what they wear. Desarm could be butt naked but that wouldn't make him any weaker would it. All they literally need to do is be in contact with an Aliea necklace or charged by the rock (Like Teikoku and Dark Emperors), and they're good to go.

Heres that example i was talking about. Tachimukai's team's gloves read this as their description:

Sunset Gloves: "Fauxshore's gloves are even capable of stopping the sun from setting".

Now, obviously Tachi's team aren't powered by the Aliea rock, yet this is an even stronger feat than that of the boots. This team is WEAKER than Epsilon and couldn't stop one of their shots at all. But by your logic, its the same credibility as the planet level statement from Epsilon. Would you alos like to know that Epsilon's power doesnt stop at Planet and instead


Macro Gloves: "Epsilon's gloves hold the power of the Milky Way"

So are Epsilon, or at least Desarm, Galaxy level now? Apparently Ryuusei Blade being big bang level is the only outlier.

8) I said that rhetorical means to show you what was wrong with saying that. They do not have infinite energy, therefore if you are denying that they cant over-exert themself, something that can only be achieved via infinite energy, then its wrong. Over exertion is a legitimate thing common in all organisms.

9) Okay, but what basis does that mean Kogure got physically weaker than he was as a child. You don't get weaker to the extent of Season 2 just for not practising. Kogure STILL had the Whirlwind Force technique down to art as shown (And Inazuma has shown in Season 1 hissatsu's and their rhythms have to be changed up qhen someone gets stronger like what happened with Dragon Tornado).

10) Missing the point. God Hand is an extremely weak move compared to Bakunetsu Storm, and would require less mastery. Gouenji got this move at a level higher than Desarm's. Its a move that obviously requires a certain level of power (enough to break Drill Smahser) in the user to be able to pull off, a power Gouenji didn't have before in the first act of S2. The use of Kenshins too are considerable buffs. You wouldn't say base OG characters are stronger than Kenshins when Kenshins are actually revolutionary manifestations that formed due to the increased strength of Soccer in Japan. Go definitely isn't stuck in Season 1 terms of power either. Aliea levels became fodder anyway the second they all met up with the world. Whats so wrong and unacceptable when saying Go couldn't have surpassed them.

11) How does this prove Hino personally wrote it? He writes a blog on the general development, but he isn't the only one responsible for writing in the game, things like dialogue and descriptions. Heck, Hino is lazy with his blogs, the new game has been delayed 3-4 years at this point. I'm saying that theres nothing to prove this is actually Hino's statement when he has a full cast of people he pays to do these. Hino doesn't think up everything for himself, just the story. And again, this is English translated. People don't use english translations, especially not for a horrendous dub like Inazuma. I mean, they even have to change the japanese names to english! Was it Hino's decision to make Tsurugi russian?

12) I believe it would be if you're using the scalings of power by descriptions. There are much better examples than that though, like when you have a move called 'Double Grenade Shot', with the power of two grenades, being stronger than Planet level. You could slap Epsilon boots onto literally any character in Inazuma and now they're suddenly planet level? Even without Aliea rock.

What you're saying is that a move's power is bound by what their descriptions say. But the power all depends on the actual character's power, and can only achieve these sorts of power moves through the power of their strikes. Inazuma, again, is purposefully over-the-top.

13) You're not talking about Galaxy, you're talking about Season 2 here. Season 2 is heavily weaker than S3, which is pretty much heavily weaker than Chrono Stone, which i'd say Galaxy levels up to. Galaxy brought the power bar high. Destroying a black hole was the final power feat. This wasn't something people could do in Season 2. You don't need to link videos of feats either to make these responses even higher.

But yes, Hissatsu's and power in galaxy have now shown High 3-A capabilities. Thats both with their souls and on their own. This is the strongest Inazuma has to offer (Except non-canon Fran). Thats something legit, and not taken from a description made to feed on the over-the-top exaggeration that is Inazuma, but by english people in this case. It's a show about Superhuman Football.

You can't honestly be saying that because Galaxy, the strongest part of the show, has a Black hole feat right at the end, that all the ones in Season 2 are actually comparable to it. Is everyone in Inazuma now 3-A. You do realise that it was the Souls the Galaxy team possessed that held this energy strong enough to destroy the BH. The BH in Galaxy is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x 10000 more powerful than the small one generated in Astro Break. The Black Hole easily disspiates after the move is gone too, so its not like it shows any other qualities like a legit black hole.

14) Again, using Galaxy justifications which are much much stronger than the powers in Season 2. I accept Inazuma can have these high-level feats, but not from the start of Season 2. Because thats ludicrous.

15) I did, but thats because all hissatsu's have at least a minimum power and technique required to use them plausibly. Bakunetsu Storm was made with the use of a Kenshin. Bt that minimum power shouldn't be decided by the likes of flawed statements that say 'comparable to the big bang'. Yes you think Hino fixed the english translation despite not working on that translation, but if that statement came out in the exact same game as the Big Bang one, why do you hold a planet levelling attack not to the same ridiculous account than a Universal level move?

Not even Inazuma realises how strong their characters are supposed to be, we got so many outliers and PIS regarding people being injured in really common stupid ways (Like Rococo).

16) Yes, i get what you're saying. These speeds are attainable but the pitch apparently lasts forever. However that would still affect the plausibility of comparing it to an actual Warp, if it crosses the same distances as running. The Warp drive move literally only moves them a few metres, and only avoids the opposition cause of portals. But this isn't what a warp is. Its, once again, an exaggeration for cool hissatsus.

 

[Jinx666]

Already wrote lots, but i agree with calcing things like Best Boy Taiyou's cloud split and White hurricane.

I also don't see the need, or appreciate, smearing me like im trying to control the verse. (Im more happy im not the only one actually). Im just putting ideas around, like using the anime matches for the canon way they went cause in the games, its up to a a player, for hissatsu scaling measure. It's also not me suggesting they all be around Planet-Galaxy-Universal levels at such a low point in the series, and i'm clearly not an Inazuma hater since this franchise has consumed my soul. i wouldn't be against this if they weren't based on faulty statements that contradict and are the english dub equivalent of canon.

I did this a while ago now (including game and anime things), but heres my whole findings on OG Inazuma.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-DhgS9NCOAzrT5fEs3Ccidd8EwM8IHvBnlgtV5Q0ASA/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Jinx666]

And i'll admit, Hissatsu are tricky, again, White Hurricane legitimately showed a Hurricane being formed. but compared to moves that create gigantic creaters and damage to the field, only to then self repair, also shows we cant treat them like physical things. Also other stupid things like how a lot of moves teleport them in space for a second.

If anything, theres a mix of visuals (Pretty much most of them), actual made constructs (The Wall), or real life occurence feats (White Hurricane). Whats so wrong to accept about this? Inazuma isn't perfectly consistent, you have to admit.

 

[Jinx666]

I regrettably don't have enough time available to properly read and evaluate all of that text.
Perhaps you could provide easy to understand quite brief summaries instead?

Basically, because of the inconsistency to say the least, and the unclear aspect of whether the games or anime are dominant canon (Both have came before eachother too much each. Currently only the anime for two upcoming games are all out and completed while the game remains delayed for years.), I would like to put forward a custom system we can use to fully maximise how we deal with this verse. It's basically treating the main games like the canon storyline, but using the anime for feats of scaling as it actually shows what beats what in an unbiased game way (Think pokemon, type effectiveness etc.)

Apparently theres a problem with that though, but we're also having issues on deciding whether or not these english translated game statements, with crazy claims that don't fit in at all like Planet, Galaxy, Star etc. feats for that point in the show, should be used.

Really though, i dont think we should be calling the characters these ludicrously high sorts of levels based on the fact they're very flawed translated statements, and all made in a low tier part of the series, to which were all considered high tier in the strongest part of the show with a Black hole destroying feat and time travel shenanigans.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Would it be possible to give the game and anime versions of the characters separate profiles as a solution?

 

[Jinx666]

Okay. Would it be possible to give the game and anime versions of the characters separate profiles as a solution?

I wouldn't think so, as they still both follow the same story (with only minor changes), and the game statements that are still iffy whether or not they actually are these high tiers, since they're only based on english dub statements, so there wouldn't be much difference. You also couldn't scale them as well without the anime.

Its also to say the Inazuma graphics from the DS games we're talking about aren't that good so they aren't reliable for calcs (Re-used bases for character models, no consideration to height differences etc Best they got are animated cutscenes)

 

[Antvasima]

So what do you suggest as a solution?

 

[Jinx666]

Well, exactly what i said before,

"It's basically treating the main games like the canon storyline, but using the anime for feats of scaling as it actually shows what beats what in an unbiased game way (Think pokemon, type effectiveness etc.) "

We use the games version of the storyline for what we need to, with maybe incorporating anime add ons unless contradiction (At least treating it like secondary canon), while using the way the anime portrays the matches to show which hissatsu shots (basically the powers of this verse) beats what for scaling. Also for visual calcs since they take higher care in proper character drawing and better looking moves (Still directed and written by creator of the games too) compared to the DS games.

 

[StrongClick]

Skipped this through briefly, but given the circumstances, Jinx seems to have the right idea for now

 

[Antvasima]

That seems to make sense to me as well.

 

[Alonik]

In the game shows how the feats happen, only it is through dialogs like visual novels. Anime is only being considered because it is easier to see it than playing the game, and it is also full of fillers that it does not have in the original work. Endou for example doesn't just train with tires, he does a variety of training as he evolves. Anime is only supervised by Akihiro, that's all.