Ikki Kurogane vs Ben Tennyson

[Firephoenixearl]

Organ Damage isn't insta ko doe.

And besides there are many aliens who are immune to that (the non corporeal ones)

 

[Greenshifter]

Obviously it's not instant, but if Ikki can get enough clean hits in that cause physical trauma to K.O. Ben then he can win, there's a lot of chance that Ben won't let that happen but there's also some chances that it will happen.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Why would the omnitrix allow that?

 

[Greenshifter]

Why wouldn't it, Azmuth doesn't care about Ben getting K.O.'ed, everybody that K.O.'s Ben captures him anyways. He just wants to make sure Ben doesn't die cause then the next time the universe gets threatened (about every month in Ben 10) there is no-one around to be the last man standing.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It only stops death?

Well still, if ben continues to gets battered why would he stay with the same Alien? That's like forcing the dude to be stupid.

 

[Greenshifter]

It only stops death and gives those resistances.

For instance: Ikki gets 10 clean hits in on Whampire, Ben goes Big Chill and phases. Doesn't work because Ikki is invisible so he thinks of a new alien, Diamondhead and spams diamond shards and then goes Heatblast and goes supernova. He can then assume that he got Ikki and maybe detransform or go into another alien such as XLR8 to get away. But then Ikki turns out to be alive and pulls out Ittou Rasetsu or Ittou Shura and gets one (or more ?) clean hit(s) in on XLR8 who then gets K.O.'ed since Ben didn't regen in between (at least if the Omnitrix doesn't regen him during transformations, it can but I don't think it does that unless Goop's body is spread across a planet or something).

 

[Greenshifter]

Also if this match would be a stomp then so would Garou vs Ben (back when Garou was still 7-A) and Ben vs Xenovia Quarta. In fact it's Ikki's fault with his invisibility and organ damage for forcing Ben to be so serious that he would get haxed into oblivion.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Those 2 wouldn't be as much of a stomp due to the AP difference being much smaller.

 

[Greenshifter]

Ben mainly wins via hax here, neither of those resist phase-freezing either.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It's the fact that ikki can't insta KO here that makes this a stomp.

 

[Greenshifter]

I suggest we wait for others to give input since this is more about the general flow of the fight.

 

[Greenshifter]

Question: won't Ikki's perception manipulation thingy (which he uses for invisibility according to the Mami Tomoe thread) fall flat against the Omnitrix? Not that it really matters. That said Big Chill can still be hypnotized (he resists eventually) and so can Whampire at first (who also resists eventually, it's probably base Ben resisting hypnosis at this point) so I do agree that mind manipulation resistance for Corrodium should only give resistance to Phantom Form since both force Ben to think a certain way (I am evil vs I have been hit very hard), where-as invisibility is more suggestion-like and would be countered by Ben's resistance to hypnosis but it would probably take too much effort on Ben's part to try and see Ikki if he even tries since he doesn't know it works like that.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It's not perception manip.

But if the omnitrix has a mind of its own then yes it would. As the omnitrix is a machine.

 

[Greenshifter]

Ok, well it has an A.I. (and a smart one at that, it took control of Ben's hand which was cut off and while Ben was in another dimension, yes Ben 10 is weird)

 

[Sir_Ovens]

We've been over this, Earl. It's goddamn perception manip.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

It's social influencing.

 

[Ionliosite]

We've been over this, Earl. It's goddamn perception manip.

It isn't tho.

 

[Greenshifter]

Ben doesn't resist, well he does but he won't try to resist probably so does it matter?

Besides Earl is already saying that this is a stomp for Ben, you don't need to give him more reasons lol.

 

[Ionliosite]

Yeah, if Earl thinks it's a stomp, there's no reason to keep moving the bushes here.

 

[Greenshifter]

I'm saying that it's not a stomp since this is like every Ben 10 match ever, opponent has a wincon and Ben may or may not pick the right aliens to deal with his opponent, to say Ikki has no chance of winning is very false, I even gave a scenario where Ikki could win above and there are more examples just like that.

 

[00potato]

Green makes a better point. Ikki has win-cons. I kinda like him from the few chapters I read but he prolly loses this.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Not denying ikki loses, im saying he gets stomped. Like ikki's win condition literally goes like:

Hitting ben dozens of times to his organs until Ben gets eventually knocked out and Ben won't think of changing to anything that is intangible during that time cus lol.

That is really just trying to give ikki a win cond based on what i call "focing stupidity", even an average dude would think "oh well he's ******* up my organs real bad, maybe i should change to something like fire that doesn't get damage from this stuff", let alone Ben who has fought tons of dudes before.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Green makes a better point. Ikki has win-cons. I kinda like him from the few chapters I read but he prolly loses this.

Ya reading Rakudai? What chapter ya at?

 

[Greenshifter]

Yeah but ikki got his amps so he can blitz Ben at times and don't forget that he is still bleeding out if he transforms into an intangible alien (and that pain might prevent him from thinking straight/about the best option) and most regenerators can't win the fight so Ben is forced to switch into something else for his wincon anyways.

 

[00potato]

Ya reading Rakudai? What chapter ya at?

I just started the second chapter of the first one before typing that.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Nice.

Enjoy.

But don't take part in my CRT's to avoid spoilers. Unless you've been completely spoiled already and don't care.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

I was going to post a reaction, But Doki Doki is annoying to play through.

 

[Greenshifter]

Bump, Monika let you go yet?