Ikki Kurogane vs Ben Tennyson

[Schnee_One]

Ikki: ITTOU SHURA

Ben: Blegh

 

[Greenshifter]

Ben: Is that Japanese for getting your butt kicked?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ben won't be conscious after a hit. And detransforming doesn't restart the brain.

 

[Greenshifter]

All right then vote counted

 

[Greenshifter]

Hold up I might have something for the detransforming: Ben wakes up after being hit by Argit's quills] due to him detransforming (most likely).

 

[Firephoenixearl]

If he detransforms when knocked out, it would not make sense for him to wake up after detransforming. Cus it means he could literally not be knocked out like ever. The clip can't be played, but even if it is the case, it'll just be some sort of PIS or Outlier if it happens in no other cases.

 

[Greenshifter]

Difference is that it's a forced knocked via status effect (something more akin to what Ikki does) rather than an actual knockout via taking too much damage, also both Argit's quills and Ikki's phantom mode have sleep hax linked to them.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ikki's phantom form is an actual knockout though. Not just a status effect that forces you to sleep.

 

[Greenshifter]

How long is someone generally knocked out by it then, cause Ben more often than not recovers from knockout within 1 to 2 minutes?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Usually anywhere from half a day to a full day. But it kinda depends cus as i said there are 3 different explanations for the ability.

 

[Greenshifter]

Hmmm ok then.

 

[Schnee_One]

Do any of Ben's aliens have mind resistance? That's another way to stop Phantom Form

 

[Greenshifter]

Whampire has a resistance to mind control (more specifically hypnosis by another alien vampire who can mind control a small town with his bat-projectiles), Upgrade might be purely technological but he won't come into play if Phantom Form works on Whampire.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Do any of Ben's aliens have mind resistance? That's another way to stop Phantom Form

Mind Resistance? Why does that stop Phantom Form?

 

[Schnee_One]

You said Phantom Form was pain manipulation.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yes, why would mind resistance stop pain?

 

[Schnee_One]

Pain is directly tied with your mind that directly controls the senses, in fact it is considered a subset on its page

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The ability to feel pain is not manipulating the mind though.

 

[Schnee_One]

The ability to force the mind to feel pain is

Phantom form directly influences a person to feeling so much pain they pass out, even though they are not even physically damage

It doesn't attack or manipulate nerves either

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Imagine if there was a thing about it sometimes giving people CIP.

 

[Greenshifter]

The Omnitrix should also protect against the effects of Corrodium which mutates the target and corrupts their minds to hostility. (Ben 10 wiki attributes the resistance to the Omnitrix, it could also be that it's only Transylian aliens however but I can research that further if necessary)

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Don't really think corrupting the mind or controlling it should be the same type of resistance as making people feel pain.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

It's just a more limited variant of it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Im gonna say different, rather than limited. Changing someone's line of thought ain't really similar to making them feel pain.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Actually it is, it's just changing their unconscious thoughts to include "pain receptors have sounded the alarm."

 

[Greenshifter]

Ok so regarding Corrodium this is what I found:

Grandpa Max: As long as you're in alien form, you should be safe from the mutation effects (when talking to Diamondhead).

Only Snare-Oh's species can handle Corrodium without special protection.

Thus the Omnitrix is special protection and Ben 10 wiki was right.

 

[Schnee_One]

Don't really think corrupting the mind or controlling it should be the same type of resistance as making people feel pain.

It's not, that's just Mind Control.

Direct manipulation of the mind absolutely falls under mind manipulation

 

[Greenshifter]

@Andy Are you saying that Ben doesn't have the necessary feats to counter pain manipulation but if he'd have an actual resistance to mind manipulation then he should? If so what kind of feats would Ben need to have to resist mind manipulation?

 

[Schnee_One]

He would need to resist mind manipulation, not much else to it

If only one alien resists it though, then he loses

 

[Greenshifter]

Mind control links to mind manipulation so it counts then, same for corruption-induced mind manipulation?

Also no reaction to me calling you Andy, HERESY!

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Also no reaction to me calling you Andy, HERESY!

Cus it was was a compliment

 

[Schnee_One]

I got used to people calling me Andy, besides my profile is outdated

 

[Greenshifter]

I'm gonna stick with Gar from now on then, more used to that anyways.

 

[Greenshifter]

Mind control links to mind manipulation so it counts then, same for corruption-induced mind manipulation?

Bump?

 

[Schnee_One]

He would need to resist mind manipulation, not much else to it

If only one alien resists it though, then he loses

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ikki's going through a small but detrimental revision currently, let's postpone this a day or two.

 

[Greenshifter]

Ok then, well the Omnitrix protects all aliens against Corrodium so all aliens resist Phantom Form then.

 

[Greenshifter]

@earl No problemo

 

[Schnee_One]

What now?

 

[Greenshifter]

Ittou Bumpa! Are the revisions done?