Iihiko Big Revisions

[TriforcePower1]

No, it only works on stars. Ajimu is 8-B, 4-C against stars clearly

 

[PaChi2]

No, it only works on stars. Ajimu is 8-B, 4-C against stars clearly

That's how you handle the TLoZ profiles, isnt it? Ovo

 

[TriforcePower1]

Before, this thread derails into a meme, @Fire is it good something like "Power Nullification (Attacks and abilities he doesn't recognize don't work on him), Adaptation (Abilities that are used twice on Iihiko are automatically not recognized)"?

 

[Elizhaa]

Before, this thread derails into a meme, @Fire is it good something like "Power Nullification (Attacks and abilities he doesn't recognize don't work on him), Adaptation (Abilities that are used twice on Iihiko are automatically not recognized)"?

It would be more of Reactive Evolution since Adaptation is more based on evironment factor not necessary gaining new abilties or resistance to opposed opponents. I think Reactive Evolution is fine, to be honest. This case is similar to Rimuru In Tensei cases, we have done the same as the antogonist Yuuki, who had had all abilties in the series except one, believed only two abilties that he have would be effective against Rimuru which Rimuru's reative evolutionmake useless later anyway.

The differences of the abilties were clarified here:Adaptation vs Reactive Evolution

 

[PaChi2]

Passive PN and Adaptation looks alright?

 

[TriforcePower1]

Okay, so same thing but reactive evolution instead of adaptation.

It's fine to remove those resistances now, right?

 

[PaChi2]

Okay, so same thing but reactive evolution instead of adaptation.

It's fine to remove those resistances now, right?

I'd keep the resistances because Iihiko has already seen those abilities and thus should already be under the "non fresh" category. Meaning they are nulled by default.

Or maybe we can add a note explaining this?

 

[Elizhaa]

Okay, so same thing but reactive evolution instead of adaptation.
It's fine to remove those resistances now, right?

Yep, reactive evolution instead of adaptation.

The resistance to know abilities the actually have should be kept; Rimuru's case was similar to Iihiko Shishime but we only claimed resistances for abilties that we actually known about not an unknown number of abilities. Rimuru did add a lot of resistances initially but the point still stands

 

[TriforcePower1]

Because keeping them there it's misleading. If someone had, like, a power like Causality Manipulation and resists power null higher than Iihiko, it's still going to work, as Iihiko doesn't really have resistance to these abilities, they're just nulled by default.

 

[PaChi2]

Because keeping them there it's misleading. If someone had, like, a power like Causality Manipulation and resists power null higher than Iihiko, it's still going to work, as Iihiko doesn't really have resistance to these abilities, they're just nulled by default.

"Maybe we can add a note explaining it?"

 

[TriforcePower1]

Oh yeah, that's fine. I was mainly answering Elizhaa.

 

[Elizhaa]

Because keeping them there it's misleading. If someone had, like, a power like Causality Manipulation and resists power null higher than Iihiko, it's still going to work, as Iihiko doesn't really have resistance to these abilities, they're just nulled by default.

I am pretty sure the power null applied to himself only like in Reactive Evolution's case. Note, superior resistance can appear to be like power nullifcation also:

Resistance is the ability to lessen the effectiveness of certain techniques and abilities through whatever means, such as greatly decreasing the potency of Mind Manipulation or nullifying it altogether.

 

[TriforcePower1]

By nullifying it refers to the ability not affecting the character at all due to his resistance.

 

[Elizhaa]

By nullifying it refers to the ability not affecting the character at all due to his resistance.

The character is still Iihiko Shishime because I am somewhat confused here?

If it is referring to Iihiko Shishime only being able to nullifying the abilties against him like Subjective Reality implied then it is Reactive Evolution.

 

[TriforcePower1]

No, I'm referring to the statement you posted:

"Resistance is the ability to lessen the effectiveness of certain techniques and abilities through whatever means, such as greatly decreasing the potency of Mind Manipulation or nullifying it altogether."

The "nullifying" part refers to said character just having enough resistances, not actually nullifying stuff with power null like Iihiko does.

 

[Elizhaa]

No, I'm referring to the statement you posted:
"Resistance is the ability to lessen the effectiveness of certain techniques and abilities through whatever means, such as greatly decreasing the potency of Mind Manipulation or nullifying it altogether."

The "nullifying" part refers to said character just having enough resistances, not actually nullifying stuff with power null like Iihiko does.

Oh see, I really though it was Reactive Evolution from this text below:

He will also no longer recognize any ability or technique previously used against him as an attack, so even if the power is somehow still functional after being used on him, it will not effect him anyway.

But, it does seems like good Power Nullifcation. I am fine if the resistances list are removed now.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Perfect.

Anyway, there's something interesting in the Power Nullification page:

"It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this ability can nullify anything that falls within the phenomena their powers are made to counter. It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified"

Because we currently consider the reason Iihiko can tank physical attacks because of his ability to not consider things, he'd only be able to nullify AP only up to 5-C.

He'd basically become a better non-smurf Khârn with durability negation.

 

[Elizhaa]

TriforcePower1, yeah, more or less, I believe that you are correct.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Not exactly nulling ap wouldn't stop at 5c. It will work on sent 3d AP given its mechanics. It is different from attack reflection. It would actually be baseless to say that 3d 5c damage cannot reach him but 4b damage which is still 3d will. Nullification works on a nlf point where unless someone has shown to resist having their AP or skill nulled it would get nulled as there is logically nothing stopping it. Definitely not restricted to 5c as it would be breaking his highest dimensional idea in canon.

Power null would have resistance negation. The scaling chain would be retarted due to nulling null which nulls null which nulls null which resists null which nulls skills that resist null. That's like 5 layers which would be best if it's resist neg instead. And he can also null resistances we know that much already from negating defensive traits.

And last thing. I'm neutral whether you wanna remove the res or add a note.

 

[TriforcePower1]

@Fire

The page explicitly says we go by the highest showing, which is 5-C for his 5-C stats, not considering the other stuff (Ajimu, higherD statements) that are part of his unknown stats.

Can you be more detailed about the scaling?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It is to say in the dimensional, mechanical and resistance breaking scale. Our standard approve that hax > AP. A thread a while back decided that. Same as how we still treat ee based on feats and showings but don't say a 9a cannot erase a 3a cus it has no feats of doing so.

Nulled bookmaker which nulled ajimu's skill that nulls skills, which can null all fiction, resists null and nulled to some extent emuake's minus which resists null. And again we already know he nulls defensive traits and resistances so adding resistance null and the scaling chain on top seems a bit redundant.

 

[TriforcePower1]

That's only for offensive hax. Defensive one needs proof to avoid NLFs. That's something we've always done, like Power absorption, power reflection etc., which are all abilities we can assume can only work as much as they've shown to work.

Oof. That does seem- wait, Book Maker is sealing, not powernull. You almost got me there.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I somewhat agree with the OP. The first point is really just semantics and makes no difference in application. Skills are basically any given super power save for specific physiology based ones.

The latter one I disagree with a bit. It isn't power nullification, if it were something, it would be negation. Also, no, they aren't the same thing. Not being effected by them is a bit different since he isn't overtly interacting with the powers unless he actually recognizes them

Also, a few other things for Iihiko. He needs supernatural luck, some level of clairvoyance (he could tell shiranui had decided to try and leave the service of the village), and a weakness that he can be convinced to recognize a power if a power is hyped up to the point he would consider it interesting. Other than that, adding a note to his profile about not putting him in NLF matches, which was agreed upon before, still needs to be done.

 

[TriforcePower1]

It is slightly different in vs threads as someone who resists enough powernull will be able to affect Iihiko even with an ability his page says he "resists".

By saying that they are the same thing I'm only referencing the fact that they share the same page, we don't have a Negation as it automatically redirects to the Power null one.

Also, let's keep that stuff for later, please.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

It's not Power Null in that same regard tho

Yeah, but they really are not the same thing, and it missing key info to say they are the same. Just because you resist power null does not mean you will resist Iihiko's powers.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Negation is a part of Power Nullification. Power Nullification is everything, while Negation only lets stuff not affect him.

Also, if you resist power null on a higher "scale" than Iihiko, yes, your abilities will work on him.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

But his subjective immunity is not power null, and just because you resist power null does not mean you resist his subjective immunity.

But it isn't power null

 

[TriforcePower1]

What is it then? Negation? Which is basically a different kind of Power Null just like Empathic Manipulation is a part of mindhax?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

While Negation and power null often have a lot of over lap, they are not the same thing. Take Mogura's Nothing. She has negation, but that is not power null by any sense of the word.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

It would be more accurate to say that power null is a kind of negation anyway

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I agree with Iap, it is not power null. Negation would work and as i said before and as Iap is saying, it's mechanics are very different from most applications of the ability.

 

[TriforcePower1]

No, Negation is Power Nullification. That's how our wiki handles it. If you try to put Negation in [[]], you're going to be redirected automatically to the Power Nullification page.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

No, Negation is Power Nullification. That's how our wiki handles it. If you try to put Negation in [[]], you're going to be redirected automatically to the Power Nullification page.

Same for acausality, ya gonna argue all types are the same?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

There are 2 more things that i'd like to talk about Iihiko, but idk if we should do it in this thread or another one. It's about "passing the legend" and "his Regenerationn negation level".

^^

 

[Elizhaa]

@Firephoenixearl, I think it would be better to make another CRT for because the new topics becasuse they might be view as derailments from others and also the Discussion Rules.

• Generally try to avoid derailing content revision discussion threads from the original topic, We cannot deal with too many different subjects at once, so it is usually better to start a new thread instead.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Because that's what we need. More Medaka Box threads.

 

[Elizhaa]

Because that's what we need. More Medaka Box threads.

Better this case, then a unconcluded CRT with multiple topics and over 400 message that will take more CRTs to conclude anyway. It also take days to weeks to conclude. Some examples of these CRT I saw were from Fairy Tail threads, but I digress.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Same for acausality, ya gonna argue all types are the same?

The Acausality page explains in a very detailed manner the differences between the different kinda. The Power Null one explicitly says that PN and Negation are interchangeable.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

No, Negation is Power Nullification. That's how our wiki handles it. If you try to put Negation in [[]], you're going to be redirected automatically to the Power Nullification page.

No, they are not the same even if they share a page. Sharing the page doesn't mean they are the same

 

[TriforcePower1]

Power Nullification

Literally first sentence: "Power Nullification, or Negation, is the ability to simply nullify the powers and abilities of others, negating their effects."

They're considered the same.