Iihiko Big Revisions

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

That is how it has been modified, but that is a misnomer. Iihiko is not negating powers, so it isn't power nullification. He is simply not being effected by attacks. It would be better to call it attack nullification, not power nullification.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I love how this entire thread is literally just

"No"

"No"

"No"

"No"

Ad infinitum

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Regardless, i completely agree with OP

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Regardless, i completely agree with OP

But it isn't power null

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

"It's not Power Null, it's Attack Negation"

That's like, the exact same thing.

Anyway, agree with OP.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

They are very different when it comes to resistance tho, which is why this cannot be ignored. In other regards they can be seen as similar

 

[Elizhaa]

I got a serious question does Subjective Immunity works like Reactive Evolution like Iihiko Shishime needs to experience the attack first then he can nullified the attack/abilties later or it is just a form of Power Nullifcation where it work on beliefs because I have a nagging feeling that he has Reactive Evolution?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

But it isn't power null

i've read through this thread, and the entire argument against it being power null is semantics at most, and totally unfounded on average

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I got a serious question does Subjective Immunity works like Reactive Evolution like Iihiko Shishime needs to experience the attack first then he can nullified the attack/abilties later or it just a form of Power Nullifcation becasue I have a nagging feeling that he has Reactive Evolution?

No. I'm pretty sure that the plot of the arc he's from wouldn't make sense if this was the case

and just about every match involving him wound be a lot more nuanced than "Iihiko sleeps GG"

 

[Elizhaa]

In my openion, if it the abiltiry is isn't Power Nullification then it is definetively Reactive Evolution and it would be would one of the most solid Reactive Evolution that I have saw on this wiki if Subjective Immunity works like Reactive Evolution.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

the thing is is that it is Power Nullification

 

[Elizhaa]

the thing is is that it is Power Nullification

If this the case, the thread OP was already evaluated and accepted by @Antvasima and @The real cal howard. I think the changes can be added.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

well

it could really only be either Power Null or attack negation which is also power null so yeah

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I got a serious question does Subjective Immunity works like Reactive Evolution like Iihiko Shishime needs to experience the attack first then he can nullified the attack/abilties later or it is just a form of Power Nullifcation where it work on beliefs because I have a nagging feeling that he has Reactive Evolution?

Its reactive evolution in that he is guaranteed to not recognize it after, but there is a high chance that he won't recognize the abilities anyway, and if it is skill or superpower, you can basically guarantee he wasn't going to recognize it anyway

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

i've read through this thread, and the entire argument against it being power null is semantics at most, and totally unfounded on average

He isn't nullifying any powers (except when breaking them, obviously), they just aren't effecting him, which isn't Nullification.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

He isn't nullifying any powers (except when breaking them, obviously), they just aren't effecting him, which isn't Nullification.

except that the whole point is that the powers just straight up don't work after he ***** with them, which sounds a lot like power null

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

That part is power nullification, obviously. That I do not contest, but Subjective Immunity is not power nullification, which is what i have issue with

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok so my current oppinion:

Power Nullification (Any power used on him even if it works, will break and will never be usable again, extends to any type of physical attack as well).

Negation Type or even Negation Type could work (Cannot be reached by skills or attacks he does not recognize, furthermore he can also dismiss any buff or defensive based skill as long as he does not recognize the buff).

Adaptation and Reactive Evolution (Even if he does recognize an ability or if the ability forces recognition like styles, he cannot be hurt or affected by the same ability twice). @Tri yes this is the case, as we saw that even Medaka's attack which used a style didn't work on him a second time, and styles force recognition.

Resistance Negation (Could nullify even the strongest of minuses all of which resists powerful power nullification abilities).

 

[Elizhaa]

Reactive Evolution already have Adaptation so it is unnecessary. Option 3 is the most applicable.

Option 2 sounds like NLF and also look debunked by option 1 since some powers can work on him initally even he doesn't recognized them.

Option 1 seems like supporting evidence of Reactive Evolution and less of Power Nullification as some powers will still initially on him and only stop later work on him akin to how reactive evolution works.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Those are my oppinions. As in those are all applicable imo. Not options.

 

[Elizhaa]

Then, Options = Opinions

 

[Firephoenixearl]

No i mean he should have all those. For the reasons i put in brackets.

 

[TriforcePower1]

It has never been stated to block stuff that doesn't affect him. Medaka says that none of her skills worked against him and Ajimu simply couldn't beat him. It's also contradicted by The +6 six using their abilities against him, even if they inflicted no damage for Iihiko's ability.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Medaka stated that Theme Song did not work. And that's a speed amp. There are also other cases probably. Like Mother's Task which literally makes you a good mother.

 

[RM97]

I think it's a combo of both Reactive Evolution and Power Nullification. Sort of like Doomsday (Post-Crisis) has but rather a very dangerous one where the powers don't get recognized in the first place.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok so my current oppinion:
Power Nullification (Any power used on him even if it works, will break and will never be usable again, extends to any type of physical attack as well).

Negation Type or even Negation Type could work (Cannot be reached by skills or attacks he does not recognize, furthermore he can also dismiss any buff or defensive based skill as long as he does not recognize the buff). I believe Subjective Immunity applies just fine due to how it works, where you he can just consider anything as fictional as long as he doesn't recognize it.

Adaptation and Reactive Evolution (Even if he does recognize an ability or if the ability forces recognition like styles, he cannot be hurt or affected by the same ability twice). @Tri yes this is the case, as we saw that even Medaka's attack which used a style didn't work on him a second time, and styles force recognition.

Resistance Negation (Could nullify even the strongest of minuses all of which resists powerful power nullification abilities).

Again this is my idea of his "Subjective Immunity" arsenal.

Everyone agree with this?

 

[TriforcePower1]

It's not subjective reality. We would need more decisive statements to give Iihiko a similar power.

Power Null and Negation are literally the same thing and doesn't need to get separated.

Medaka's style wasn't a real style. Nienami mentioned how Medaka's style wasn't complete, and as such didn't work the second time.

It's much more likely that Iihiko's power null just brute forces its way and nulls minuses regardless without negating the resistance.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Well it would be quite similar. I'll wait on Iap's opinion on it.

Yes but they don't acomplish the same. Negation in this case going almost in a case of Power Modification by making abilities not reach him.

It was still a style that worked on him, yet didn't work again.

Well considering how he can nullify resistances as we already know and even stuff like non corporeality. It is MUCH safer to assume he just negates resistances rather than:

Nulled bookmaker (which we do treat as power null to some extent) which nulled ajimu's skill that nulls skills, which can null all fiction, resists null and nulled to some extent emuake's minus which resists null.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

It's not subjective reality. We would need more decisive statements to give Iihiko a similar power.
Power Null and Negation are literally the same thing and doesn't need to get separated.

Medaka's style wasn't a real style. Nienami mentioned how Medaka's style wasn't complete, and as such didn't work the second time.

It's much more likely that Iihiko's power null just brute forces its way and nulls minuses regardless without negating the resistance.

I think it could definitely be argued to be subjective reality. I would say that a possible subjective reality would be good. He perceived swords being stabbed through him as acupuncture, a barrage of kicks as a massage, and a blast of electricity as therapy, and they effected him as such.

No, they aren't. Mogura is a perfect example. She negated attacks, but she is in no way nullifying the powers.

It was a real style, but I think it's that it was merged with a new-style attack which is why it could be negated

Well, I think it would be better to say that he ignores the resistances as long as he does not recognize them

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So i take it you agree with my proposed powers Iap?

 

[TriforcePower1]

No, they didn't affect him at all. That statement is the typical "I'm much stronger than you" statement of a typical OP villain. In which they perceive attacks as nothing more than flies and things like that. Even then, we would need a direct statement to give him something so specific.

You're kinda ignoring that making attacks work but they still don't work on you is still power null. Link, for example, is able to null the powers of the Dark World, but he only prevents himself from being affected while everything else is still affected, and he has power null (also) for this. Mogura's thing is also power null, then.


Nope, it was only half a style

Also, resisting erasure=/=resisting null and viceversa

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Not exactly. You're the one who gave the scan of "i do not recognize that as an attack" after he tanked Medaka's hit. Him stating that he percieves something as a mosquito bite is literally just him not percieving them as attacks, but rather as other things. That would be aching to Subjective Reality as he can percieve things the way he wants them to. Treating what he wishes to as "real" and what he doesn't as "fictional" or "non existent".

I'll wait on Iap's say on this.

Except we do treat Power Erasure as power null. It is the closest thing we could give it since power erasure is not a specific ability. I would be down to treat power erasure differently, but it still wouldn't change the scaling chain, as Minus still did resist being turned into normals by Naze's null and the scaling chain continues, with Ajimu's null, bookmaker, iihiko then resisting all and nulling them.

He does still have resistance negation given how he completely ignored Kumagawa's resistance, and other resistances. We are just saying that he doesn't scale chain, but rather he just ignores resistance with his power null (which he logically would have given that it's the same power).

It wasn't half a style. It was half of how a style is used. Medaka had an actual style, but she used it in a wrong way. Her not being a good user of a style, doesn't disprove the fact that Iihiko still did null a style.

 

[TriforcePower1]

That's an extremely high-end interpretation of Iihiko's "I don't consider what you do as an attack so it doesn't work on me". Him stating all those things is just him mocking them like other 26931700317 villains before him did.


This is the reason why Minuses cannot be erased, because they cannot be "separated" with the user. Iihiko's power null works by nullifying the effects of Minuses, not the Minuses themselves. Also, I'm surprised we don't have a power erasure page, I'll see if it's possible to add as it would apply to other characters, too.

Okay, it doesn't change that the reason styles work is by forcing recognition, which Medaka only managed to do halfway.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Except that's how it works. He said "i will recognize your attack". And Medaka's punch worked. He said "that's not an attack anymore" and he finger flicked Medaka's whose attack 1 shotted him previously. That's not a high end interpretation, that's him nulling what he doesn't recognize as an attack.

If we get a page for Power Erasure then yes. But doesn't change the fact that minus were not nulled by Naze's nullification so that still doesn't rly change much about the scaling, nor about the fact that Iihiko can ignore resistances.

If it were just half way, it wouldn't have worked the 1st time.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Yes, and that's still powernull.

By Naze's null you mean the "erase abnormalities" thing? I need to check, but that didn't work because minuses aren't abnormalities iirc

It mainly worked because Iihiko understood the attack.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Subjective Reality Negation would be more like it. Power Null would mostly fit on breaking the skill.

IIRC Misogi said "don't compare minus to abnormals, minus won't be nulled by that" or sth like that, implying minuses are mostly just resistant to being nullified.

Not really. Iihiko understood Medaka's 1st attack as well but her first try killed her.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Again, there's nothing pointing at subjective reality more than power null, so we go by the latter.

Medaka's first attack got destroyed by Iihiko's Irreversible Destruction.

Just be glad I'm willing to consider it Power Null instead of saying it's not an ability at all and just good dura like the Medaka wiki does ovo

 

[Elizhaa]

I will be honest the description of Iihiko Shishime's abilities doesn't sound like subjective reality especiallly since it doesn't have the others characteristics of Subjective Reality.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Again, there's nothing pointing at subjective reality more than power null, so we go by the latter.
Just be glad I'm willing to consider it Power Null instead of saying it's not an ability at all and just good dura like the Medaka wiki does ovo

We'll just have to do this by votes.

That would sound dumber than you could ever imagine. Also are you implying that the thread wouldn't get closed like the one that was gonna downgrade Iihiko's dura neg was

 

[TriforcePower1]

It's literally just you and Iap vs everyone else who agreed it was power null. Me and Elizhaa at bare minimum and Elizhaa is staff so he counts 2 ovo