IDW Upgrade?

[LordTracer]

Shockwave and Megatron both state he would erase the universe.

The narrator says Shockwave is collapsing time and space.

Megatron was able to tank a blast from Regenesis Shockwave.

Optimus is capable of damaging Megatron, and Megatron is comparable to him in AP, meaning both should have superior AP to Regenesis Shockwave. Optimus was also able to defeat Nova Prime (Dark Cybertron #9), who had control over the Dead Universe (Dark Cybertron #7).

Shockwave was also able to absorb the energy from the Dead Universe after Nova Prime's death (Dark Cybertron #10).

My Proposal: Optimus Prime, Megatron, Shockwave and those who scale to them should be upgraded to Low 2-C.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Is this an outlier?

 

[LordTracer]

Pretty sure it's like Shockwave's only feat with Regenesis, it's reiterated thrice and I gave supporting feats of Optimus beating someone with full control over a universe and Shockwave absorbing said universe.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Is sounds good, then.

 

[LordTracer]

Sweet.

 

[Drite77]

We have discuss this before and deemed an outlier. BUTTTT, there is, apparently other more Tier 2 feats. I will bring them out in a Transformers general revision, it will take a while because of school and work, but i promise that i will bring that thread soon

 

[Crabwhale]

Sorta in-between outlier and legitimate tbh.

On the one hand, it's reiterated a bunch of times.

On the other, Low 2-C still seems ridiculously high for something that scales to basically the majority of the IDW verse.

 

[Drite77]

Just wait until my thread cause there is at least 2 more Low 2-C feats

 

[LordTracer]

Two more other than the ones I gave of Nova Prime having full control over the Dead Universe, Optimus killing Nova and Shockwave absorbing the Dead Universe?

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Two more other than the ones I gave of Nova Prime having full control over the Dead Universe, Optimus killing Nova and Shockwave absorbing the Dead Universe?

Those are 3-A feats.

 

[LordTracer]

How would they be 3-A? Wouldn't Nova having total control over it be Low 2-C?

 

[Crabwhale]

Pretty sure absorbing a whole universe would be Low 2-C yes.

 

[LordTracer]

Yeah, so that's already three things supporting Low 2-C: Shockwave absorbing the Dead Universe, Nova Prime having full control of the Dead Universe and Regenesis Shockwave going to destroy the universe.

 

[LordTracer]

I found another feat to support Low 2-C IDW, Thunderwing was stated to be a threat to the entire universe and Optimus dealt serious damage to him.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Being called a threat to the universe doesn't mean you can destroy it in one hit last time I checked.

And the Outlier isn't Shockwave's feat of collapsing space-time, it's the fact Megs endured his attacks.

The Nova feat does look convincing though. If controlling the universe scale to his physical stats then it might be good.

 

[LordTracer]

Megatron enduring the attack is supported by Optimus also withstanding the blast at close range. Also Optimus's durability would scale from him being Low 2-C due to the Nova Prime stuff.

Nova's control over the Dead Universe should scale to him physically, there's nothing that really implies it wouldn't, and he did say in Dark Cybertron #7; "I control this universe-and I will rule yours!" While decking Optimus in the face. It was also said; "When Nova said he could bend the Dead Universe to his will, I didn't realize he meant-then again, people like him are very literal, aren't they?" So Nova can literally bend the Dead Universe, he seems to physically scale to Low 2-C, therefore Optimus would as well. Especially since once Optimus got his confidence back, he bodied Nova Prime pretty easily.

And then Dark Cybertron #10 continuously reiterated Shockwave being Low 2-C, going to collapse the universe, space-time, all of history, etc. Shockwave was also stated to be able to bend the universe just like Nova could bend the Dead Universe. Shockwave just absorbing the Dead Universe was already causing the main universe to be destroyed as well.

Low 2-C Optimus and Shockwave is reiterated a lot, and Megatron would scale to Optimus, so him surviving a blast from Shockwave would be consistent.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

I see. Then there's not much to argue with, so I don't think it's invalid any longer.

But I'm not a knowledegable member for this, and it's best you wait for more input.

 

[LordTracer]

I'll just wait for Crabwhale and Drite to respond again then.

 

[Drite77]

As i saided, i wished to bring the tier 2 feats in my TF revision. I would also bring up the scaling issues that it may bring and the PIS on that thread, but if Crab wabts to resolve this now,than i'm ok woth bring them up

 

[LordTracer]

Also something a little off-topic, but still related to Shockwave, I think he should have another key or something on his profile noting his power level when he deactivates his higher functions, as seen in Spotlight: Shockwave. He bodied all of the Dinobots at the same time like that, so I feel like it should be noted.

 

[Crabwhale]

Yes, I suppose the number of feats here does prevail in the end.

I think this can be used.

 

[LordTracer]

Nice, that's pretty much unanimous agreement on Low 2-C IDW then. May I edit the profiles, or would one of you rather do it?

 

[Not_Icarus]

On the sidenote, would the titans be High 6-A?

 

[LordTracer]

You mean like Metroplex?

 

[Not_Icarus]

Guys like him. Assuming we have 2 seperate keys for the tier 6 and 2 guys.

 

[LordTracer]

Pretty sure they'd just be Low 2-C like everyone else.

 

[Caleb3429]

I'd say that the only characters deserving of this are Optimus, Megs, Nova, and Shockwave. The others can't truly scale to him, as they've never really shown anything past 6-A.

 

[Caleb3429]

Another feat supporting 2-C is Megatron destroying the D-Void, which was essentially an entire universe.

 

[Caleb3429]

At the end we should have:

Top Tier (2-C):Optimus, Megatron, Shockwave, and Nova

Mid Tier (6-A):Grimlock, Galvatron, Arcee, etc.

Low-tier (6-C): Soundwave, Starscream, Rodimus, etc.

 

[LordTracer]

That makes no sense though. Optimus, Megatron, Shockwave and Nova aren't infinitely above everyone else, and certainly not the likes of Galvatron and Grimlock, who have been portrayed as nearly on par or equal to them.

 

[Caleb3429]

Galvatron, I can agree with. But Grimlock has never done anything to prove himself past 6-A, whereas the other five have. While these characters were accomplishing their universal feats, Grimlock fell into obscurity. He, and the others, have never done anything to put them past 6-A.

 

[LordTracer]

Grimlock was able to contend with and damage Shockwave before he deactivated his higher functions. Arcee is equal to Galvatron, Soundwave was able to stalemate Shockwave with his Minicons helping him, Starscream and the Seekers shouldn't be too far behind the others (I was going to give them Likely Low 2-C), and again, Prime, Megs, Nova and Shockwave aren't infinitely above everyone. Everyone should have a Likely Low 2-C at the very least.

 

[Skalt711]

May I ask what Dark Universe and D-Void are exactly?

 

[LordTracer]

The Dead Universe is Nova Prime's domain; it was a normal universe until Shockwave went back in time and drained all the life from it.

 

[Caleb3429]

Grimlock was able to contend with and damage Shockwave before he deactivated his higher functions. Arcee is equal to Galvatron, Soundwave was able to stalemate Shockwave with his Minicons helping him, Starscream and the Seekers shouldn't be too far behind the others (I was going to give them Likely Low 2-C), and again, Prime, Megs, Nova and Shockwave aren't infinitely above everyone. Everyone should have a Likely Low 2-C at the very least.

That simply doesn't work. Soundwave v. Shockwave was just a demonstration, Grimlock only ever fought Shockwave pre-Dark Cybertron, and Arcee v. Galvatron was always a contest of skill rather than strength.

 

[Caleb3429]

May I ask what Dark Universe and D-Void are exactly?

Dead Universe

D-Void

 

[LordTracer]

Base Shockwave is Low 2-C, Grimlock still scales. Arcee would have to be Low 2-C to be able to contend with Galvatron period. If she wasn't, she'd get stomped into oblivion. Same thing with Soundwave and Shockwave. You'd also have to explain why there's a literal infinite gap between the likes of say; Starscream and Megatron, despite Megatron considering that Starscream could potentially take his place if he got his act together.

 

[Skalt711]

Interesting... That's a sudden upgrade from Tier 6 to Tier 2. I'll be neutral on this one. It sounds so outlier-ish and is potentially messing with the powerscaling, yet it seems to be a concrete part of the cosmology.

 

[Caleb3429]

As a leader, yes. As a warrior, no. Shockwave actually states that he was holding back in the fight with Soundwave to demonstrate the power of Ore-14. There's nothing saying Base Shockwave is 2-C; he was just a scientist before Regenesis. Arcee is considerable, though Galvatron never actually landed a blow on her afair.

 

[LordTracer]

Why would Megatron consider someone infinitely weaker than him to be leader, exactly? That'd be illogical. Shockwave holding back should still be Low 2-C unless you can find something that shows he held back a literal infinite amount. Base Shockwave, before Regenesis was complete, siphoned the life energy from the Dead Universe the moment it was born and was later absorbing it/collapsing the universe. Again, you'd have to prove these characters are infinitely beneath Optimus tiers for them to remain 6-A/6-C.