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Ichigo+Ultra Instinct+Sharringan

KillerNerd007

KillerNerd007

280
173
Hello everyone. Back again with another Bleach related upgrade thread. Again for Ichigo before I tackle Aizen's regeneration and make a thread for the Cleaner. This one simple, I propose Ichigo obtains instinctive reactions and analytical predictions.

Instinctive reactions:

Evidence: Ichigo has presented against Ulquiorra's First Release that he can instinctively react to and counter Ulquiorra's attack, despite the fact Ulquiorra was much faster than him to the point Ichigo couldn't perceive a thing he has done. Same thing with Tensa Zangetsu. Against Kirinji, Ichigo was able to block and reflexively counter Kirinji's surprise attack and break his hand.

Supporting evidence: Ichigo dodged and also countered Isshin's attacks, despite the fact he was either medidating or just waking up.

Analytical prediction:

Evidence: Ichigo has shown that he can predict and dodge Renji's Shikai, that then lead to Renji being left wide open for a final attack. Against Ulquiorra, Ichigo was able to block then counter against Ulquiorra's many strikes, he then states that he was predicting Ulquiorra's movements. One final piece of evidence is that, when he was fighting Ginjo, and when Ginjo slashed off his eyes, Ichigo was still able to fight back based on Ginjo's sound and presence.

Supporting evidence: After Ichigo recovered against Kenpachi, he was able to predict Byakuya's Senka technique, the same technique that previously he had no idea what was happening, able to predict even better than Renji, because he needed multiple viewings to get what was happening, in order to predict Senka.

Agree: Deceived (everything), Arc (everything), KazuiK (everything), Duedate (with instinctive reactions), Torsin, Naeblis495, Arcker123

Disagree: Duedate (with analytical prediction),

Neutral:
 
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For the Instinctive Reactions, the sleeping thing, dodging Isshin's strike from behind, and just barely dodging Zangetsu aren't good examples of the power. Isshin announced himself before attacking so Ichigo could've just reacted to that for the first one, for dodghing Isshin's strike from behind there's no sign of him reacting in a way which I would say is instinctive. Just cause you dodge an attack from behind, that doesn't mean you're reacting instinctively. And the Zangetsu thing its hard to look at that and think it says anything about Instinctive Reactions.

Now we do have the statement of Ichigo reflexively breaking Kirinjji's wrist and the Ulqiorra response, so I think those work well enough. I can agree with it with no real problem except maybe the lack of real consistency with this since I don't think we have any other real instances of Ichigo utilizing Instinctive Reactions nor does this seem like a real thing of note for him in battle normally. But I think it can be overlooked due to how lowkey instinctive reactions can be.

Analytical Prediction, I don't think so. Mainly because it feels less like what we normally consider analytical prediction and just like normal prediction. Normal people are capable of predicting the attack of their opponents, and in the case of Renji, Ichigo was provided information by Urahara to help him make his prediction so that doesn't really feel like proper analytical prediction. With Ulqiorra the links you provided actually break down what he means when he says he's predicting Ulqiorra's attacks. He can see them, he can react to them. That's not predicting his attacks, that's just seeing them coming and reacting accordingly. And finally with Ginjo, that's not at all analytical prediction or anything like that, he's just using enhanced senses/extrasensory preception to figure out what Ginjo's doing in the moment. And finally with Byakuya, Ichigo straight up says to Byakyuya that he sees him. Not sure how we can conflate that to support for analytical prediction.
 
Duedate8898 said:
For the Instinctive Reactions, the sleeping thing, dodging Isshin's strike from behind, and just barely dodging Zangetsu aren't good examples of the power. Isshin announced himself before attacking so Ichigo could've just reacted to that for the first one, for dodghing Isshin's strike from behind there's no sign of him reacting in a way which I would say is instinctive. Just cause you dodge an attack from behind, that doesn't mean you're reacting instinctively. And the Zangetsu thing its hard to look at that and think it says anything about Instinctive Reactions.

Now we do have the statement of Ichigo reflexively breaking Kirinjji's wrist and the Ulqiorra response, so I think those work well enough. I can agree with it with no real problem except maybe the lack of real consistency with this since I don't think we have any other real instances of Ichigo utilizing Instinctive Reactions nor does this seem like a real thing of note for him in battle normally. But I think it can be overlooked due to how lowkey instinctive reactions can be.

Analytical Prediction, I don't think so. Mainly because it feels less like what we normally consider analytical prediction and just like normal prediction. Normal people are capable of predicting the attack of their opponents, and in the case of Renji, Ichigo was provided information by Urahara to help him make his prediction so that doesn't really feel like proper analytical prediction. With Ulqiorra the links you provided actually break down what he means when he says he's predicting Ulqiorra's attacks. He can see them, he can react to them. That's not predicting his attacks, that's just seeing them coming and reacting accordingly. And finally with Ginjo, that's not at all analytical prediction or anything like that, he's just using enhanced senses/extrasensory preception to figure out what Ginjo's doing in the moment. And finally with Byakuya, Ichigo straight up says to Byakyuya that he sees him. Not sure how we can conflate that to support for analytical prediction.
Click to expand...
For the analytical prediction part, I heavily disagree with what you commented about. In the same panels where Ichigo is explaining what is happening, he later on uses the word "predict" to describe his actions in what he was doing, you can say him being able to see and react to Ulquiorra's movements could imply that the speed gap isn't so big that he can't do anything about it, but the fact he described himself as "predicting" adds a lot more, suggesting that he is analyzing and predicting Ulquiorra's strikes. For the Renji part, just because Kisuke gave him information of what to do doesn't change anything about the feat, because Ichigo himself had to use the concept to execute it, everyone agrees on Goku being able to predict Hit's movements despite the fact that Goku had prep, so what makes this different? I don't think it should be ruled out simply because "Kisuke gave Ichigo a real world concept to apply in a fight", it was all up to Ichigo to both analyze Renji's attacks and attack patterns, and predict the next strike, in order to dodge and counter. The Ginjo part does prove my point because Ichigo has to fight agaisnt Ginjo WHILST he is blinded, only being able to use his other senses. For the Byakuya example finally, Ichigo does say that now he can see Byakuya but that could have meant a lot of things, I think that part was more so a case of interpretation. When Ichigo said "I see you" could mean he can now block and fight against Byakuya. It would also be consistent with the Renji feat where he predicted Senka after seeing it many times, and when Ichigo blocked Byakuya's attack, it be more impressive since its his second time experiencing it and his first time combating against it, he had no way around it.
 
there is another example of Ichigo's analytical prediction, in case it's a useful example, during his fight against jacke he claims to be able to predict his attacks due to his combat experience or something.
 
Analytical prediction and precognition become one page? Wanted a more accurate definition of analytic prediction
 
KazuiK said:
Analytical prediction and precognition become one page? Wanted a more accurate definition of analytic prediction
Click to expand...
I checked other pages that have analytical prediction, such as (if you click on this one, it will send you straight to the precognition page). I assumed analytical prediction is where a fighter is able to analyze an opponent's attack patterns, then they predict their next move based on it.
 
Duedate8898 said:
Analytical Prediction, I don't think so. Mainly because it feels less like what we normally consider analytical prediction and just like normal prediction. Normal people are capable of predicting the attack of their opponents, and in the case of Renji, Ichigo was provided information by Urahara to help him make his prediction so that doesn't really feel like proper analytical prediction. With Ulqiorra the links you provided actually break down what he means when he says he's predicting Ulqiorra's attacks. He can see them, he can react to them. That's not predicting his attacks, that's just seeing them coming and reacting accordingly. And finally with Ginjo, that's not at all analytical prediction or anything like that, he's just using enhanced senses/extrasensory preception to figure out what Ginjo's doing in the moment. And finally with Byakuya, Ichigo straight up says to Byakyuya that he sees him. Not sure how we can conflate that to support for analytical prediction.
Click to expand...
Sorry but I disagree on what you saying duedate, especially for the link with Ulqiorra. excluding the SHEER FACT that Ichigo flat out says "Look's like I can predict your movements better than before"(which should just be evidence enough) But I went to reread that chapter(Chapter 341) and Ichigo went more in-depth on what he meant in the literal next page of that link. He said WORD FOR WORD "I couldn't predict what you were gonna do the last time we fought. Your attacks, defense, reactions, speed, direction... I couldn't predict any of that. I felt like I was fighting a stone statue". And I'm pretty sure that the things Ichigo is trying to predict falls under the category of Analytical Prediction. So if Ichigo flat out states that he can predict his movements better now and we know that his prediction means the stuff as I said in the quote and not just seeing and reacting. That should qualify for it (Don't worry, i'll provide a image of that quote soon give me like 5 minutes for that).

Edit- Here's the scan. Skadoosh
 
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Enigmatic_Rurouni said:
Sorry but I disagree on what you saying duedate, especially for the link with Ulqiorra. excluding the SHEER FACT that Ichigo flat out says "Look's like I can predict your movements better than before"(which should just be evidence enough) But I went to reread that chapter(Chapter 341) and Ichigo went more in-depth on what he meant in the literal next page of that link. He said WORD FOR WORD "I couldn't predict what you were gonna do the last time we fought. Your attacks, defense, reactions, speed, direction... I couldn't predict any of that. I felt like I was fighting a stone statue". And I'm pretty sure that the things Ichigo is trying to predict falls under the category of Analytical Prediction. So if Ichigo flat out states that he can predict his movements better now and we know that his prediction means the stuff as I said in the quote and not just seeing and reacting. That should qualify for it (Don't worry, i'll provide a image of that quote soon give me like 5 minutes for that).

Edit- Here's the scan. Skadoosh
Click to expand...
I agree with what was said here.
 
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