- 5,206
- 2,719
Ichigo Kurosaki (Pre-Timeskip) VS Shigekuni Yamamoto Genryusai
- Fight Location: Soul Society
- Starting Distance: 10m
- Both in-character
- Post-Dangai Training Ichigo
Yamamoto: 1 (@Shepard)
Inconclusive:
Last edited:
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Ichigo Kurosaki (Pre-Timeskip) VS Shigekuni Yamamoto Genryusai
- Thread starter TauanVictor
- Start date
Yamamoto: 1 (@Shepard)
Inconclusive:
- 28
- 28
Soul Society and both in-character, I'd go with the old man.
The location + in-character combination matters because while in WotL Yama would holding back to avoid harming humans, in SS he would use everything.
In-character Ichigo usually let the enemy use his best before show his triumph card. If Yama, then, goes Bankai, I don't see how Ichigo can withstand the various hax, from EE to 15,000,000° passive heat (pretty sure Royd stated he would've become ash by mere Yama presence if he hadn't had Blut Vene), up to the multitudes of ranks of corpses.
Ichigo would have an advantage in speed, but since it is equalized, I confirm my vote for Yamamoto.
The location + in-character combination matters because while in WotL Yama would holding back to avoid harming humans, in SS he would use everything.
In-character Ichigo usually let the enemy use his best before show his triumph card. If Yama, then, goes Bankai, I don't see how Ichigo can withstand the various hax, from EE to 15,000,000° passive heat (pretty sure Royd stated he would've become ash by mere Yama presence if he hadn't had Blut Vene), up to the multitudes of ranks of corpses.
Ichigo would have an advantage in speed, but since it is equalized, I confirm my vote for Yamamoto.
- 5,206
- 2,719
- Thread starter
- #3
Wouldn't it be a stomp if the speed wasn't equalized?
- 28
- 28
If Ichigo starts in SGT Form and Yama starts in Base, yes. Because Ichigo would blitz Yama before Yama could be able to draw the sword.
But then, again, there would be the circumstance of the in-character. Taking a famous example, SGT Ichigo blitzed Butterfly Aizen before Aizen could even realize it, which suggests Ichigo was much faster than him. Still, he didn't show his true power until Aizen gave his best.
- 5,206
- 2,719
- Thread starter
- #5
So can I remove the equalization?
- 28
- 28
In my opinion yes, because in fact it doesn't change much, having also in-character. "In-character Ichigo speedblitz and oneshot" would be like saying "In-character Goku make suffer his enemy, showing no mercy to him who begs for forgiveness". Which would be unrealistic for the character in example.
So, in my opinion, to have equalized speed or not is indifferent to the purpose of the fight and I hope that even those who arrive after me to vote will consider all the established circumstances of the fight.
- 5,206
- 2,719
- Thread starter
- #7
I remove so.
- 6,105
- 2,510
Ichigo swings and wins
At that point in the story where he came out of the dangai both him an aizen are above all the soul reapers
At that point in the story where he came out of the dangai both him an aizen are above all the soul reapers
- 5,206
- 2,719
- Thread starter
- #9
Bump.
- 5,206
- 2,719
- Thread starter
- #10
Bump.
- 5,206
- 2,719
- Thread starter
- #11
Bump.
- 5,206
- 2,719
- Thread starter
- #12
Bump.
- 733
- 254
By vs battle wiki standards Ichigo has the stat and potency advantage but Yama has the hax and versatility. If this is FKT Yama vs this version of Ichigo then I'd give it to Ichigo. But if it's TYBW Yama then I think that's a different story
The gap between the FKT Gotei and the Fullbring/TYBW Arc Gotei + CFYOW statements for Yama makes his TYBW scaling actually very significant
The gap between the FKT Gotei and the Fullbring/TYBW Arc Gotei + CFYOW statements for Yama makes his TYBW scaling actually very significant
Scottycj256
He/Him- 1,759
- 903
yea Arrancar arc Yamamoto gets his shit kicked in by this Ichigo
- 13,510
- 5,665
Dunno why the distinction? Both Yama’s would still be roughly at the same level of power with FKT actually being stronger as the Databook specifically notes that even with one arm, he is still the strongest captain, implying that the loss of his arm made him weaker in TYBW compared to FKT.
- 5,206
- 2,719
- Thread starter
- #16
Bump.
- 13,510
- 5,665
Oh yeah, this exists. Ichigo resists everything Yama has and swings in his direction for the dub.
Scottycj256
He/Him- 1,759
- 903
I voted Ichigo
- 1,707
- 322
ichigo fra
- 733
- 254
FB Arc scaling. By wiki standards, yea I guess Yama is around the same level in both arcs. But as for how it actually scales, it really all depends on where you have Complete FB Ichigo. He's stronger than the profiles suggest, that's for sure. Been stated multiple times in the anime and manga that he's >= his FKT level, so at minimum that would be Striped Mask Ichigo who would be relative to but weaker than Base Aizen with the Hogyoku Fused. There's been arguments for Complete FB Ichigo being => Dangai or even Final Getsuga, but whether you agree with that or not-
Regardless, Yama was confident that a team of low to mid tier captain level fighters (Ikkaku, Renji, Toshiro, Byakuya, Kenpachi etc) could kill this Ichigo that would in his mind be stronger than the one that beat the Aizen that defeated the Gotei, as well as Ginjo if they decided to join forces. The same Aizen that Yama was previously willing to sacrifice all of the present Gotei Captains and his own life to take down, now he's sending low to mid tier captain levels to take down the guy that beat this Aizen. Even if Yama wouldn't know how strong Ichigo and Aizen eventually got. Yama at the very least would have the Aizen that beat him and the Gotei in his mind as the one Ichigo beat bare minimum. But now he's confident in not even stepping in himself or sending in the high and top tier captains, but sending in low to mid tiers. Gives more credence to Renji saying that they trained to beat Aizen level threats, whether they actually did reach that level or not.
So it'd look like:
TYBW Bankai Yama >>> TYBW Shikai Yama (Casually almost killed As Nodt while not even paying him any mind. As Nodt would be relative to Early TYBW/FB arc Bankai Byakuya himself) >>>> FB Arc Byakuya ~ Tsukishima ~ Complete FB Ichigo (Stated multiple times to have regained or surpassed his FKT powers/strength) >= FKT Striped Mask Ichigo (Was able to cause a serious wound on Aizen with a Getsuga) ~ FKT Base Aizen (Tanked a Self Sacrificial Hado in the 90s from Yama with basically no damage) >>> FKT Yama
- 13,510
- 5,665
That’s …… so wrong. Base Aizen >>> RG Byakuya, nothing says 1st Invasion Byakuya >>>> LAA Byakuya, FKT Masked Ichigo isn’t comparable to Aizen when Aizen let his guard down and was messing the whole time, Aizen is not >>>>>>>> FKT Yama when he directly concedes that he would most likely lose to Shikai Yama (the same Yama who thought losing Shikai didn’t affect his combat power and was still ready to clap Aizen’s cheeks).
Ignoring the fact that the Databook says that Aizen transcends all Hollow and Shinigami (which includes Zanka no Tachi), Butterfly Aizen isn’t needed for this match up. FGT is stated to transcend and be stronger than everything else in existence in the Databook which isn’t based on a statement from a character so it can’t even be argued that it’s regurgitating a character statement. Not that that discredits the statement in the first place. ZnT exists so Mugetsu >>> Bankai Yama. Every Transcendent has better scaling than Bankai Yama.
Just for some supporting evidence that Aizen would know about Zanka no Tachi’s power, ZnT damages Yama and would take a few minutes to kill him. The FKT suicide move did enough damage to drop Yama on the floor and Wonderweiss could seal that power away which is backed up by Yama thinking he would die from the attack whereas a weaker Yama thought ZnT wouldn’t kill him for a while and was gonna destroy SS first.
- 733
- 254
1st Invasion Byakuya doesn't have to be stronger than Fullbring Arc Byakuya, the main point is that Post Timeskip Byakuya in general has some sort of relativity to Tsukishima (albeit on the weaker end as he was getting smacked up), who himself is relative to Complete FB Ichigo. And Yama was damn near able to one shot As Nodt who scales to Bankai Byakuya without even trying. You could even argue that Tsukishima cutting Byakuya made him stronger (like the profile says) which possibly means he could scale to a stronger version than the Tsuki that fought Ichigo
And Aizen's words to Striped Masked Ichigo says otherwise. He stated multiple times that he was impressed with Ichigo's reiatsu, even going as far as saying that Ulquiorra (and Ichigo going into Full Hollow) was just a stepping stone for him to get to the level he was currently facing Aizen at, and called his Reiatsu impressive. The only downside was Ichigo mentally nerfing himself due to doubt and fear which 'dropped' him down to a level where Gin was relative to him. Aizen only really got out of Striped Masked Ichigo's league completely when he began evolving. (And even that is not fully fleshed out as Isshin seemed to think Ichigo at that stage was stronger than him, and he was fighting Aizen just fine, albeit with help.)
As for Aizen and FKT Yama, Aizen straight up tanked a self sacrificing Hado in the 90s from Yama with basically no damage. You could interpret this in 2 ways. Either A.) Yama's Shikai is far stronger than even his kido in the 90s that requires him permanently sacrificing a body part, (which is unlikely unless we're talking about the move Yama would use to suicide bomb himself before Wonderweiss stepped in), or the next interpretation which I think is pretty valid based on their brief fight-
B.) Aizen wasn't afraid of Shikai Yama, but was afraid of Yama's full potential or Bankai. He would of course know Yama has a Bankai that was used against Yhwach 1000 years ago (he might not know how much ZnT evolved since even Yhwach
TYBW Bankai Yama >>> TYBW Shikai Yama >>> Senbonzakura As Nodt ~ 1st Invasion Bankai Byakuya = FB Arc Byakuya (relative to but weaker than) ~ Tsukishima (post cutting Byakuya) > Tsukishima (pre cutting Byakuya) ~ Complete FB Ichigo >= FKT Ichigo (relative to but weaker than while mentally nerfed) ~ Base Aizen > FKT Shikai/Hado 90+ Yama
As for FKT Base Aizen being > RG Byakuya or the TYBW top tiers, what's your reasoning for that? Is it because of TYBW statements? Because different 'versions' of Aizen are being referenced. Urahara said that Aura was basically an Aizen level threat, and he was more than likely referring to Silver Surfer Aizen who was already at a level of 'transcendence'. FKT Urahara, Yoruichi, and Isshin scaled to him to some degree. (Which would also be evidence for Quincy Elites like Askin and anyone that scales above him like God Sized Gerard even pre vollstandig being above that version of Aizen. Byakuya scaling to a much stronger Gerard etc). When they reference Aizen in the context of being able to defeat Hikone, they're referencing current Aizen. And if you mean the statement on Aizen's reiatsu being above Tokinada's, that could also mean current Aizen, but if we wanna say it's talking about FKT Aizen, it doesn't automatically write Byakuya out.
If we go by that interpretation
FKT Base Aizen > (to an unknown degree) Shikai Tokinada
AP Amping Techniques Byakuya (to an unknown degree) > Bankai Byakuya (5-10x, potentially more since he should have the highest of the 'average' Bankai boost or even beyond the average Bankai boost due to the squad 0 training) > Shikai/Base Byakuya ~ Shikai/Base Tokinada
Even if you say Bankai multis aren't a general blanket for everyone, we know that Byakuya specifically amps his AP. His 'normal' Bankai is defense mode, then he has Senkei, Ikka Senjinka, and then Hakuteiken which are all successive ap amps.
Keep in mind Yoruichi was thrown in there along with Byakuya as being relative to Tokinada, and while it is on a low end, Yoruichi in the FKT arc scaled to a stronger, more evolved Aizen than Base Aizen when she wasn't even using Shunko iirc.
Transcending technically doesn't disregard everyone who isn't stated to be transcendent. Besides the Bleach Sannin scaling to a version of Aizen above base Aizen and Urahara even being able to kill a version of Aizen (with Aizen saying that alone Urahara does rival or surpass him before he evolved), and Gin being able to 'kill' a version of Aizen that was even further along the 'transcended' line when even base Aizen said that he could power null shinigami abilities as potent/haxed as instant death if their reiatsu didn't scale, some top tier Quincy scaling to or above these characters, and Aura directly being called an Aizen level threat by Urahara (who still didn't feel threatened enough to go Bankai like he did against Askin, but did go an extra step and use Hado 99 which he didn't do in his Kido combo in Aizen), its hard to say that Base Aizen is unsurpassed by the TYBW/CFYOW top tiers. And even if you hold firmly to that, it's one statement vs all the scaling and statements
My bad for the post being long, just tryna get all my points out at once rather than over the course of the discussion or whatever
- 150
- 105
FKT urahara yoruichi and isshin don't scale to silver surfer aizen he wasn't trying at all and when he tried he one shot all of them. Yama's hado 96 was weakened because he performed it after having to absorb Ennetsu Jigoku into himself to save everyone else, also no incantation. So yama shikai >>> weakened hado 96. Aizen directly states he would lose in a fight with Yama, he created wonderweiss to seal away ryujinjakka and yama let himself get stabbed by aizen. just because aizen isn't afraid doesn't mean hes stronger, and he never referred to his bankai at all. yama states hes stronger than all soul reapers born in the last 1000 years.
Last edited:
- 3,410
- 2,308
Ichigo fra
- 5,206
- 2,719
- Thread starter
- #26
Counted.
Scottycj256
He/Him- 1,759
- 903
stomp cuz dangai ichigo got upgraded centuries ago
Scottycj256
He/Him- 1,759
- 903
a better matchup is fullbring zanpakuto ichigo vs yamamoto
