Dragon Ball: Minor Multiplier Fix

[Ednaxel2]

(First CRT done on phone, wasn’t too bad but never again)

Currently we have 23rd Budokai Goku be 2x King Piccolo Saga Goku in strength, based on this statement from Dragon Ball Forever:

"After receiving training from the g*ds, Goku nearly doubles his strength. When he stores up his Ki for the Kamehameha, this value rises to nearly 1,000!"

However this is not stating Goku’s growth from KP to the 23rd Budokai, but rather his growth from KP all the way the Raditz Saga. Firstly the header translates to “Battle with Raditz”, the corresponding battle power is 416 the same battle power Raditz analyzed from Goku in their fight, and the “nearly 1,000!” with the kamehameha is also within their fight. This is pretty straightforward.

This is an issue as it implies he has not trained in between DB and DBZ which is straight up false, and the fact that the text translated from a Chinese version of the guide, not the original Japanese text.

As a replacement, we’ll use this multiplier statement from Piccolo Jr. where he states that he got several/many times stronger than King Piccolo (3x) this will be the replacement for both the Canon and Toei profiles

Only counting staff votes

Agree:

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[UnoRebaixadO]

looking at it like this, it seems quite acceptable to me

 

[Nullflowerblush]

No, that doesn't make even sense. For the sentence to make sense, Goku from the Piccolo Jr. Saga and Goku from the Raditz Saga would need to have the same Power Level; he didn't receive training from the gods after the 23rd World Martial Arts Tournament, that training was in preparation for said tournament. It literally cannot not be describing his progression from the King Piccolo Saga to the next. However, that implies he has not trained between DB and Z, which is explicitly false.

sooooo
whole statement thrown out?
scans are in chinese so we can't even be sure the original intent of the japanese text was even preserved?

 

[AyeZ2]

No, that doesn't make even sense. For the sentence to make sense, Goku from the Piccolo Jr. Saga and Goku from the Raditz Saga would need to have the same Power Level; he didn't receive training from the gods after the 23rd World Martial Arts Tournament, that training was in preparation for said tournament. It literally cannot not be describing his progression from the King Piccolo Saga to the next. However, that implies he has not trained between DB and Z, which is explicitly false.

sooooo
whole statement thrown out?
scans are in chinese so we can't even be sure the original intent of the japanese text was even preserved?

Kinda funny how small the gap is though. He went from like 910 to 924 iirc

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Granted, Goku's 924 was a barely charged normal Kamehameha, whereas 910 is a Super Kamehameha, the "extra-strength version".

 

[Sus]

i actually thought of this yesterday how did you read my mind

while power levels do imply goku being comparable to himself in the radits saga during the 23rd tournament, as Null showed the context of both statements deny it

this is one of the cases where we disregard power levels, i disagree unless there's other evidence

 

[Ednaxel2]

sooooo
whole statement thrown out?
scans are in chinese so we can't even be sure the original intent of the japanese text was even preserved?

Yeah sure I’ll rephrase the CRT and use a different multiplier

I’ll also remove the 10x multiplier for Namek Goku in the future, due to the same issues of it being from a Chinese version of the guide

 

[Sus]

Yeah sure I’ll rephrase the CRT and use a different multiplier

I’ll also remove the 10x multiplier for Namek Goku in the future, due to the same issues of it being from a Chinese version of the guide

goku should downscale from 2nd form frieza, it gives him more than 10x anyway

 

[Sus]

As a replacement, we’ll use this multiplier statement from Piccolo Jr. where he states that he got several/many times stronger than King Piccolo (3x) this will be the replacement for both the Canon and Toei profiles

many is at least 4x as it's more than several
several itself being "more than 2, not many"

 

[Sus]

why don't we use the ultra divine water as a 10x? it implies goku used his oozaru power multiple times

 

[Ednaxel2]

goku should downscale from 2nd form frieza, it gives him more than 10x anyway

Damage already made a thread to remove that so no

many is at least 4x as it's more than several
several itself being "more than 2, not many"

Only Viz says that, the original Japanese text means several. It’s only “many” for the anime

 

[Sus]

Damage already made a thread to remove that so no

can u link it?

Damage already made a thread to remove that so no

Only Viz says that, the original Japanese text means several. It’s only “many” for the anime

okay, so at least 3 yeah

 

[Ednaxel2]

can u link it?

Removing Goku scaling to Second Form Frieza (Dragon Ball Z)

Dragon Ball Z's Son Goku's third key (AKA Ginyu Fight Goku) has this AP justification: Dwarf Star level (Easily defeated Recoome, Burter, and Jeice), up to at least Dwarf Star level+ with Kaio-ken (Stated he was capable of performing a Kaio-ken x10. Surpassed Ginyu in power, leading to him...

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But enough talk about this, it isn’t the thread’s focus

 

[Sus]

i agree with the piccolo upgrade, it's a blatant statement, and it's usual for dragon ball characters to grow 10 or even 20 times more powerful within years, 3x is very fine

also

why don't we use the ultra divine water as a 10x? it implies goku used his oozaru power multiple times

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm not sure about this.

 

[Sus]

I'm not sure about this.

the king piccolo proposal? if so, why?

 

[Ednaxel2]

I'm not sure about this.

Sorry what’s the issue?

 

[Ednaxel2]

Bump

 

[Sus]

seems like there's an issue, piccolo jr is at least 3 times stronger than king piccolo, and he's equal to goku who's 2x himself when he was equal to king piccolo

we either accept "several" as 2, or ditch the other statement, both dont make sense imo

 

[Ednaxel2]

and he's equal to goku who's 2x himself when he was equal to king piccolo

that’s based off a flawed statement anyways

 

[Sus]

elaborate

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

seems like there's an issue, piccolo jr is at least 3 times stronger than king piccolo, and he's equal to goku who's 2x himself when he was equal to king piccolo

we either accept "several" as 2, or ditch the other statement, both dont make sense imo

Or Goku was x1.5 Demon King Piccolo

 

[Sus]

Or Goku was x1.5 Demon King Piccolo

1.5x gaps are usually enough to overpower and defeat ur opponent easily in DB

it doesnt apply here, but granted, i dont remember the fight well

will wait for more input

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

1.5x gaps are usually enough to overpower and defeat ur opponent easily in DB

Goku did seem to hold the advantage, King Piccolo even resorted to using Tien as a human shield

 

[Ednaxel2]

elaborate

It's already in the OP. We currently use a Chinese version of the statement and it implies Goku didn't train from the 23rd budokai to Raditz Saga, which is straight up contradictory

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

seems like there's an issue, piccolo jr is at least 3 times stronger than king piccolo, and he's equal to goku who's 2x himself when he was equal to king piccolo

we either accept "several" as 2, or ditch the other statement, both dont make sense imo

Sounds wildly inconsistent yeah.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Btw several has been used as a x2 before in DB, check Post-Korin Training Goku.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Btw several has been used as a x2 before in DB, check Post-Korin Training Goku.

Although not included in his justification (my fault), Post-Karin Training Goku is accepted as only being twice as powerful as previously because the Super Exciting Guide explicitly confirmed a two-times increase.

 

[Sus]

Btw several has been used as a x2 before in DB, check Post-Korin Training Goku.

wasn't the several times multiplier fake? and he got stronger via training which was 2x

It's already in the OP. We currently use a Chinese version of the statement and it implies Goku didn't train from the 23rd budokai to Raditz Saga, which is straight up contradictory

the multiplier is for the training with kami though

 

[Sus]

Btw several has been used as a x2 before in DB, check Post-Korin Training Goku.

also, if that's the case
nothing will change since piccolo is already 2x king piccolo

 

[DivineAura44]

1.5x gaps are usually enough to overpower and defeat ur opponent easily in DB

Example?

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Example?

vegeta vs cui...that was a 1.33x gap
namek ssj goku vs 100% frieza was a 1.25x gap

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

vegeta vs cui...that was a 1.33x gap
namek ssj goku vs 100% frieza was a 1.25x gap

Vegeta also One-Shot Dodoria.

 

[Sus]

Example?

the entire series, literally
one example is goku kk2 getting overpowered by vegeta and overpowering him with kk3
another example is goku overpowering frieza while holding back, all with a 1.25x gap

this is derailing though

 

[DivineAura44]

vegeta vs cui...that was a 1.33x gap
namek ssj goku vs 100% frieza was a 1.25x gap

These are power level gaps, not power gaps iirc.

one example is goku kk2 getting overpowered by vegeta and overpowering him with kk3

Fair ig.

this is derailing though

If your entire problem with the statements is based on these supposed 1.5x power gaps which are enough to easily overpower another character, I don't think it's derailing to ask for examples.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

These are power level gaps, not power gaps iirc.

We treat the PLs around this area linearly due to Kaioken x3 Goku.

 

[Sus]

These are power level gaps, not power gaps iirc.

the frieza example isnt
kk20 = 50%
ss1 is 50x aka 1.25x 100%

anyway power levels do put goku and piccolo as equals (both 260) so idk

 

[Omegabronic]

vegeta vs cui...that was a 1.33x gap
namek ssj goku vs 100% frieza was a 1.25x gap

Power Levels are not proportionate like that, 1.33 power level difference =/= 1.33 actual power difference

that was the base for the whole 5-A downgrade even

 

[Sus]

that was the base for the whole 5-A downgrade even

which one?

 

[Omegabronic]

which one?

Dragon Ball AP, sad downgrade (Raditz/Saiyan/Namek Saga Tiers only)

This'll only affect Raditz to Namek Saga characters, anyone who is First Form Frieza level and up don't get affected so we don't have to worry about how other threads affecting this. The method on how we backscale is based on hypothetical power levels with multipliers (Hypothetical Kaio-ken x10...

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