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I attempt to M E M E the wiki asunder

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Alright. Personally, I think Gan takes this due to Higher-Dimensional Manipulation, Life, and Death Manipulation, and overall, his various kinds of Hax like Conceptual Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and whatnot. Not to mention since he's Omniscient, he could figure out, and likely kill the God Emperor of Mankind before the latter could.
 
[insert knuckle-cracking here]

So. Is the God Emperor trying to destroy the Dark Tower? Or are we really about to have him take on Gan himself?
 
MrKingOfNegativity said:
[insert knuckle-cracking here]
So. I the God Emperor trying to destroy the Dark Tower? Or are we really about to have him take on Gan himself?
Click to expand...
Since your reaction tells me true Gan lolstomps in every way imaginable, Dark Tower
 
THIS THREAD SHALL INVOKE AN EVENT BY WHICH DOPAMINE, A CHEMICAL TO SIGNAL ME WHICH EVENTS ARE PREFERABLE OVER OTHERS, SHALL BE RELEASED INTO MY BRAIN, CAUSING ME TO THEREFORE PREFER THE EVENTS HERE OVER OTHER EVENTS IN OTHER THREADS
 
DMUA said:
THIS THREAD SHALL INVOKE AN EVENT BY WHICH DOPAMINE, A CHEMICAL TO SIGNAL ME WHICH EVENTS ARE PREFERABLE OVER OTHERS, SHALL BE RELEASED INTO MY BRAIN, CAUSING ME TO THEREFORE PREFER THE EVENTS HERE OVER OTHER EVENTS IN OTHER THREADS
Click to expand...
Yes
 
Since there was actually nothing between Dark Tower and Gan himself, I'd assume that the Dark Tower itself would have the same abilities as Gan... So that means it'd probably still be a hax stomp in favor of the Dark Tower/Gan.
 
Yakushimi said:
Since there was actually nothing between Dark Tower and Gan himself, I'd assume that the Dark Tower itself would have the same abilities as Gan... So that means it'd probably still be a hax stomp in favor of the Dark Tower/Gan.
Click to expand...
The Dark Tower is actually infinitely below Gan.
 
Yeah, it doesn't work that way. They're two separate entities, with the latter encompassing the former to an unquantifiable degree.

That said, while the God Emperor's a lot better off trying to destroy the Tower than attempt to fight Gan himself, he's still about to have some major problems.
 
So should I go ahead and say why this is still a death sentence for the Emperor, or do you want me to wait for more people to show up?
 
You should.


Although make sure to say if it's a stomp or not.
 
You're the Steven King guy here. If anyone has an opinion it's you.
 
^And on that note, I'd say I've waited long enough. Let's see the damage already.

We'll start with something a few people might not know: The Tower is not just "the Tower" as it's seen at the end of the series. In reality, the Tower is the physical embodiment of all creation and reality within Stephen King's mythos. It encompasses every dimension, all of the multiverses (yes, multiverses) held within each of those dimensions, and all of Todash Darkness, which is the void that exists between every universe on every layer.

And it is sentient.

The Tower (the physical one that regular 3-D characters can see) doesn't normally "fight". The reason, or at least the reason I interpret, is because it doesn't need to. The Breakers enslaved by the Crimson King's forces have been shooting psychic energy at its beams for years, and even though those are effectively supposed to be its "weak points", they still haven't worn all of them down by the time the main story takes place.

However, the fact that it doesn't fight does not mean it can't do so. When the Old Ones attempted to destroy and rebuild it, it proceeded to open up a fissure leading to Todash Space that claimed everyone there, and when the Crimson King's avatar attempted to head towards the Tower (IIRC) in an attempt to destroy it, it trapped him on a balcony outside of itself where he was rendered powerless and incapable of escaping. As it is the embodiment of creation in its entirety, it's very much capable of screwing over whatever's inside of said creation if it wants.

By its very nature, conventional hax powers would be null against the Tower. Things like "mind control", "soul manipulation" and "existence erasure" aren't going to work unless said powers operate on a scale that (to my knowledge) is astronomically above what the Emperor is capable of. Can he "mindhax", "soul-steal" or "erase the existence of" the entirety of an infinite-dimensional multiverse itself? I'm doubtful.

The only way I can see the Emperor "beating" the Tower is if he can destroy all of the Beams before the Tower attempts to do something about him, and since he has no prior knowledge (thus having no clue what the Beams even are), that won't happen.

However, even if he does manage to do that, he's still monumentally screwed. Why, you ask?

Because the moment anyone succeeds in bringing down the Tower, the multiverse collapses and everything ceases to be.
 
TL;DR: Emprah has like no way to win even under these circumstances. The one thing he can do here is something he has no way of knowing about, and will just end up getting him wiped out to the point that he'll need High-Godly regen to be able to come back from it.

Yeah.
 
Well, I mean, he can handle 4 beings of immense mindhax at the same time, so there's that. Not going to help, but it proves that he would have a Slight chance of Mindhaxing the universe.

Not big enough to call this fair though.
 
A couple minor things.

  • The Tower does not always defend itself, and instances of it doing so have been...varied depending on circumstance. As an example, at multiple points of the Old Ones messing with it, they were able to alter the Tower's structure unimpeded. It is implied their eventual goal of making everything shiny and chrome into their tech would have worked had their own hubris not wiped them out.
  • The Tower definitely doesn't seem to defend against attacks on the Beams. This might be due to the fact the Beams have their own manifestations as well as the guardians, but the Tower itself does not actively make an effort to prevent their destruction. The Breakers successfully managed to destroy four of them, and the beams only began to heal/regenerate after the assault stopped.
  • I don't think we assume the Emperor is inside the Tower, for this, just going by SBA and such. It's not a battle that takes place inside the multiverse, but one where the multiverse is a combatant.
It's been a few years since I last finished the series, so feel free to correct if I misremembered something.
 
I dont think even The Crimson King would be fair then, if this is a stomp like that.

Edit: Ninja'd
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
[clipped]
Click to expand...

I'll touch on these.

  • The Old Ones had moments of messing with the Tower because said moments did not involve them actively attempting to destroy it. They altered its structure and built new things, which was relatively fine with it for whatever ******* reaso, but the moment their intentions shifted towards actually bringing dow the Tower in order to rebuild it from scratch, it went Old Testament on their asses immediately.
  • It wouldn't defend itself against attacks on the Beams, no. It only retaliates against those who attempt to destroy the (physical) Tower itself. However, to my knowledge, the Emperor has no way of knowing what the Beams even are, let alone where to find them and how to destroy them. If he's tasked with "destroying the Tower", it seems more likely that he will go after the Dark Tower itself.
  • I'm not all the way sure how this would work if he weren't within the same high-hyperversal structure as the Tower. I'm doubtful he's capable of destroying the DT-verse as a whole with nothing but raw power, so if he's an entire body of creation away from the Tower's physical manifestation, how will he even attack it?
 
@MrKingofNegativity

  • Yes, that's what I'm referring to. Its moments of self defense are weirdly inconsistent within the series. It goes from defending itself when it's under the threat of being destroyed to not defending itself from something that will clearly result in its destruction.
  • I assume the sort of nigh-omnipresent acausal viewing of reality would help him learn something about it, but it all depends.
  • I assumed by the Tower we meant he was fighting the "true" form of the Tower (the physical multiverse, not Gan). Being inside the multiverse but just fighting the physical tower at the center of it is even more strange, as that fight is essentially "Man Attempts to Knock Over a Stationary Object and then the Multiverse Explodes: the Vs Thread".
 
I'm halfway tempted to make that my wallpaper.

But I've already got the Emperor on it, so it would probably be extreme heresy.

Quite the Predicament, you'll find.
 
@Azzy:

  • I think it has to do with how far one goes with their meddling with the Tower. It's a strange concept to think about (since, yeah, altering it in any fashion proves to be detrimental to its health), but there's a fairly clear line between the moments it stood idle and the moments it fought back. In the former cases, the perpetrators were merely trying to create things anew and push themselves forward in their pursuit of evolution, and the repercussions would not have surfaced until an uncountable number of years had passed. In the latter, their pursuits had changed to that of greed, of godhood and of mastery over more than they could ever hope to understand, and the consequences would have been immediate as well as unfathomably severe.
  • I dunno at this point. Maybe that could help him find the Beams and destroy them, but I still think that would just end in him being obliterated by the collapse of DT's reality if he did that.
  • The whole thing is strange tbh, but the odds seem dire as hell either way. Either he's fighting to destroy the Tower's physical form, in which case he also has to deal with possibly being trapped on a balcony and stripped of his powers, or he's fighting the true Tower, in which case he's being tasked with destroying an infinitely-layered reality by himself. And both cases, he has to worry about not dying from it.
 
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