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I actually want to know how this character would look like
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Huge rainbow colored hair on a generic face ovo
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An abomination
Well you can do this with 2 copies of a monster, so I don't want to imagine what a composite monster would be.
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Or resurrection
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Not that all of them are so great.
Ido the Supreme Magical Force stops its controller Summoning or Setting any monsters, period, & if destroyed by a card effect, comes back during your next Standby Phase. And if it does resurrect that way, it destroys all your other monsters.
Spell Canceller stops any Spell Cards being activated, & Negates the effects of all Spell Cards, too!
Heck, Jinzo is the same thing, but for traps, too! No idea if there's any monster to Negate all other monsters, too. Probably, but close.
Oh, and there's Giant Kozaky, a Machine which destroys itself if Kozaky isn't out. More importantly, it damages you for damage equal to its Original ATK if it gets destroyed by ANY means while face-up. (But a composite of everything would also be Kozaky, so itself being present would stop it self-destructing.)
We can combine this with something like Nuvia the Wicked, which, besides losing 200 ATK for each Monster your opponent controls, destroys itself when Normal Summoned.
Earthbound Immortals also self-destruct if there's no Field Spell.
Mystical Beast of Serket will blow up without Temple of the Kings.
Ally of Justice Reverse Break will self-destruct if there's a LIGHT Monster out, which, there is, since our composite monster is all Attributes at once, LIGHT included!
And Burning Abyss monsters destroy themselves if you control any monster that's not a Burning Abyss Monster, which our composite monster is, by way of being EVERY monster, Burning Abyss or otherwise!
I mean, there's probably oodles of other monsters that prevent this thing being destroyed, but there's probably other ways this thing will probably be trying to hinder itself. There's also things that'll stop its self-targeting automatic "burn" damage, like Prime Material Drago.
But still, if we were to CHERRY PICK the components, we would have a monster that:
1. Stops us from summoning or setting any other monster.
2. Stops any Spells or Traps from being activated, & Negates all the effects of Spells & Traps.
3. Automatically tries to self-destruct immediately for several reasons, & then self-damages for however much its "Original ATK" is.
4. Revives itself shortly after, assuming some of its other abilities don't stop its self-destruction. (How soon depends on which monster's resurrection effect we use.)
Yay, card effects!
I almost pity the thing. Almost.
Ido the Supreme Magical Force stops its controller Summoning or Setting any monsters, period, & if destroyed by a card effect, comes back during your next Standby Phase. And if it does resurrect that way, it destroys all your other monsters.
Spell Canceller stops any Spell Cards being activated, & Negates the effects of all Spell Cards, too!
Heck, Jinzo is the same thing, but for traps, too! No idea if there's any monster to Negate all other monsters, too. Probably, but close.
Oh, and there's Giant Kozaky, a Machine which destroys itself if Kozaky isn't out. More importantly, it damages you for damage equal to its Original ATK if it gets destroyed by ANY means while face-up. (But a composite of everything would also be Kozaky, so itself being present would stop it self-destructing.)
We can combine this with something like Nuvia the Wicked, which, besides losing 200 ATK for each Monster your opponent controls, destroys itself when Normal Summoned.
Earthbound Immortals also self-destruct if there's no Field Spell.
Mystical Beast of Serket will blow up without Temple of the Kings.
Ally of Justice Reverse Break will self-destruct if there's a LIGHT Monster out, which, there is, since our composite monster is all Attributes at once, LIGHT included!
And Burning Abyss monsters destroy themselves if you control any monster that's not a Burning Abyss Monster, which our composite monster is, by way of being EVERY monster, Burning Abyss or otherwise!
I mean, there's probably oodles of other monsters that prevent this thing being destroyed, but there's probably other ways this thing will probably be trying to hinder itself. There's also things that'll stop its self-targeting automatic "burn" damage, like Prime Material Drago.
But still, if we were to CHERRY PICK the components, we would have a monster that:
1. Stops us from summoning or setting any other monster.
2. Stops any Spells or Traps from being activated, & Negates all the effects of Spells & Traps.
3. Automatically tries to self-destruct immediately for several reasons, & then self-damages for however much its "Original ATK" is.
4. Revives itself shortly after, assuming some of its other abilities don't stop its self-destruction. (How soon depends on which monster's resurrection effect we use.)
Yay, card effects!
I almost pity the thing. Almost.
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@Yobobojojo: Well, yes. I did acknowledge that. Quoting myself:
"I mean, there's probably oodles of other monsters that prevent this thing being destroyed, but there's probably other ways this thing will probably be trying to hinder itself. There's also things that'll stop its self-targeting automatic "burn" damage, like Prime Material Drago."
It definitely has ways of stopping self-destruction & self-damaging effects. I already acknowledged that.
What abilities it has depends on what it's a composite of. "All monsters" is quite varied. Adding all Spells/Traps to the mix just gets confusing.
There's at least one monster that's unaffected by Trap Cards, for example.
So this composite would be unaffected by Traps, but also be a Trap, for example. So it'd be unaffected by itself if it has Spell or Trap parts to it. Similarly, several parts of it would Negate itself.
But even so, I'm not sure about abilities that do stuff like overwrite "you cannot summon/set".
IIRC, going by the game's rules as written, "cannot" takes priority over "can". So even if it has effects that let one summon extra monsters, it'll also have several effects that will disable summoning.
And it's the "you cannot" that takes priority. Likewise, "cannot" for using Spells or Traps would overwrite most instances of "can".
And most such "cannot" effects are Continuous, rather than Activated or Triggered, so they can't be individually responded to & negated.
If you know ways around that, I'm interested in discussing it, but I'm not confident it could thwart ALL its drawbacks....
"I mean, there's probably oodles of other monsters that prevent this thing being destroyed, but there's probably other ways this thing will probably be trying to hinder itself. There's also things that'll stop its self-targeting automatic "burn" damage, like Prime Material Drago."
It definitely has ways of stopping self-destruction & self-damaging effects. I already acknowledged that.
What abilities it has depends on what it's a composite of. "All monsters" is quite varied. Adding all Spells/Traps to the mix just gets confusing.
There's at least one monster that's unaffected by Trap Cards, for example.
So this composite would be unaffected by Traps, but also be a Trap, for example. So it'd be unaffected by itself if it has Spell or Trap parts to it. Similarly, several parts of it would Negate itself.
But even so, I'm not sure about abilities that do stuff like overwrite "you cannot summon/set".
IIRC, going by the game's rules as written, "cannot" takes priority over "can". So even if it has effects that let one summon extra monsters, it'll also have several effects that will disable summoning.
And it's the "you cannot" that takes priority. Likewise, "cannot" for using Spells or Traps would overwrite most instances of "can".
And most such "cannot" effects are Continuous, rather than Activated or Triggered, so they can't be individually responded to & negated.
If you know ways around that, I'm interested in discussing it, but I'm not confident it could thwart ALL its drawbacks....
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Well, actually, there's STILL a couple things getting in the way of using it.
1. Summoning conditions. Some are outright paradoxical/incompatible, like Spirits & several others being unable to be Special Summoned, & several monsters that cannot be Normal Summoned or Set, or all the monsters that want you to have no monsters or fewer than your opponent or specific monsters.
Pretty sure there's one that demands monsters of multiple extra deck types.
This thing would REQUIRE Ignoring the Summoning Conditions to be summoned, which isn't easy. Doable, via a few cards (More if we include anime cards.), but not easy.
2. Maintenance costs .
"Maintenance costs cannot be negated and they do not activate or start a Chain Link.
Even if a card like "Skill Drai" or "Jinzo" is on the field and negating the card's effects, you still need to pay its maintenance cost. Also, cards such as "Card Guard" and "Field Barrier" cannot protect these cards from destroying themselves due to not paying their maintenance cost."
I doubt it'd be easy to keep around.
Come the Standby Phase, it would be asking for Life Points (Archfiends, Mind Protector), Tributes (Amorphages as Pendulum Zone cards, & The Unfriendly Amazon, among probably other things.), discarding your entire hand (Rocket Arrow Express), XYZ Material detaching (Number 41), Spell Counter detachments (Armor Exe), Banishing of Rock Monsters from one's own Graveyard (Gaia Plate the Earth Giant), & possibly other stuff.
During the End Phase, it would be asking for Life Points (Grapple Blocker), & one's choice of reveals of several kinds of monsters from the hand (Most Koa'ki Meiru) or giving up an Iron Core of Koa'ki Meiru. And for Valafar & Maximus, both of them won't accept anything BUT a core!
Which is kinda tough, since it'd need one to discard their hand earlier per Rocket Arrow Express, & if it's negating all its effects that might help one get a hand to reveal back....
Also, depending on how the multiple Amorphage, Archfiend & Koa'ki Meiru abilities are handled, it could very well want multiple Tributes, & tons of LP & Reveals/Cores.
And that just includes the Monster maintenance costs!
1. Summoning conditions. Some are outright paradoxical/incompatible, like Spirits & several others being unable to be Special Summoned, & several monsters that cannot be Normal Summoned or Set, or all the monsters that want you to have no monsters or fewer than your opponent or specific monsters.
Pretty sure there's one that demands monsters of multiple extra deck types.
This thing would REQUIRE Ignoring the Summoning Conditions to be summoned, which isn't easy. Doable, via a few cards (More if we include anime cards.), but not easy.
2. Maintenance costs .
"Maintenance costs cannot be negated and they do not activate or start a Chain Link.
Even if a card like "Skill Drai" or "Jinzo" is on the field and negating the card's effects, you still need to pay its maintenance cost. Also, cards such as "Card Guard" and "Field Barrier" cannot protect these cards from destroying themselves due to not paying their maintenance cost."
I doubt it'd be easy to keep around.
Come the Standby Phase, it would be asking for Life Points (Archfiends, Mind Protector), Tributes (Amorphages as Pendulum Zone cards, & The Unfriendly Amazon, among probably other things.), discarding your entire hand (Rocket Arrow Express), XYZ Material detaching (Number 41), Spell Counter detachments (Armor Exe), Banishing of Rock Monsters from one's own Graveyard (Gaia Plate the Earth Giant), & possibly other stuff.
During the End Phase, it would be asking for Life Points (Grapple Blocker), & one's choice of reveals of several kinds of monsters from the hand (Most Koa'ki Meiru) or giving up an Iron Core of Koa'ki Meiru. And for Valafar & Maximus, both of them won't accept anything BUT a core!
Which is kinda tough, since it'd need one to discard their hand earlier per Rocket Arrow Express, & if it's negating all its effects that might help one get a hand to reveal back....
Also, depending on how the multiple Amorphage, Archfiend & Koa'ki Meiru abilities are handled, it could very well want multiple Tributes, & tons of LP & Reveals/Cores.
And that just includes the Monster maintenance costs!
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Well yeah. We go by lore, & a lot of what I said is arguably game mechanics.
But you did say "I think assuming card effects are legit, power null to hell and back". So I went by rules as written.
That said, not that I disagree with you about that it's not how composites work, I'd still like to be sure: How should the details of this Composite be determined?
(Sorry if I'm being unpleasant. At the very least, I'm enjoying this discussion. I'm sorry if you aren't, or dislike that I'm enjoying it. No offense meant.)
But you did say "I think assuming card effects are legit, power null to hell and back". So I went by rules as written.
That said, not that I disagree with you about that it's not how composites work, I'd still like to be sure: How should the details of this Composite be determined?
(Sorry if I'm being unpleasant. At the very least, I'm enjoying this discussion. I'm sorry if you aren't, or dislike that I'm enjoying it. No offense meant.)
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That's fair. Although, I'd question how global disabling like Jinzo's would be treated, as it Negates Traps & prevents their Activation for both the opponent & Jinzo's controller. Upsides & downsides, & several abilities could be viewed similarly.
Plus, on a meta note, several Amorphage cards actually make use of their "Tribute or destroy this" maintenance costs.
Still, if we did afflict it with all its disadvantages, it'd be a little entertaining, IMHO.
Just on card effects alone, if we accepted them -A debate I don't want to get into neither here nor now- it would give quite a range of abilities....
Plus, on a meta note, several Amorphage cards actually make use of their "Tribute or destroy this" maintenance costs.
Still, if we did afflict it with all its disadvantages, it'd be a little entertaining, IMHO.
Just on card effects alone, if we accepted them -A debate I don't want to get into neither here nor now- it would give quite a range of abilities....
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You mean Infinite attack beatstick.Yobobojojo said:
https://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Divine_Serpent_Geh_(anime)
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