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Hxh vs JJK - Yuji vs Killua
- Thread starter Arkenis
- Start date
Arkenis
They/Them- 16,838
- 7,737
- Thread starter
- #3
I've been told that isn't something most characters do in fights and I've also watched the anime and I don't remember Killua doing that in his fights.
Yuji also resist mind manip, fear manip, madness manip and empathic manip, so Yuji should be completely fine.
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no they are. prolly from a novel or something
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I'm in the 50/50, on the fence range, but I'm more likely to give it to Killua. I find he has better martial art skills than Yuji and way more likely to go for the kill.
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Who's been saying that? What did they say?
Nen
Nen (念ネン or ネン, Nen, "Sense"; "Mind Force" in the Viz translation) is the manipulation of the life energy within every living being and is the overarching term for many techniques regarding the manipulation of life energy in the world of Hunter x Hunter. It can also be called Aura. A person...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Ren - Fear Manipulation, Limited Paralysis Inducement, Madness Manipulation (Type 3) and Limited Death Manipulation (It has been stated that without Ten, a Nen User is capable of inducing crippling fear, paralyzing people, causing insanity and even outright killing them with Nen alone, this is through malicious aura attacks), Statistics Amplification (Ren also enhances physical characteristics)
Ren (練レン, Ren; "Refine"/"Enhance") focuses on outputting a larger amount of aura than Ten and projecting it outwards violently. The user emanates a large amount of aura which enhances all of their physical capabilities such as strength and durability. By projecting malice into Ren, also called "bloodlust" by Nen Users. A prolonged experience of this can cause paralysis, intense fear, in some cases madness and without a Ten as a defence, death. It's used to intimidate other Nen Users allowing them to see the difference in power. Without malice, the pressure of Ren cannot be felt by non-users and only by extremely attentive living beings with high potential in regards to Nen.
I could believe it's somewhat OoC for Killua to show his "bloodlust" in combat, as, despite being trained as an assassin since early childhood by his family, he opposes their lifestyle -Or was it their intentions for him?- a bit, even if he does incorporate their training & lifestyle, & can be a bit tempermental/vicious in combat, in contrast to his usual collected demeanour, IIRC.
I'd also say the Nen page could use a bit of work.
But yes, Nen Crush is quite potent, especially to those without a UES with mechanics that can provide protection similar to Ten.
Ten (纏テン, Ten; "Envelop"/"Shroud") is the ability to prevent aura from leaking away from the body once the aura nodes are opened and rather, contains it within and around the body. When one masters Ten they feel a viscous, lukewarm sensation which is their emanation of aura around the body, like "wearing weightless clothes". Every living thing emanates a little aura overtime however Ten prevents aura from leaving the body which allows one to maintain a youthful vigour and age at a much slower rate. It also acts as a defence to physical attacks and emotional Nen attacks filled with malice.
Ten is a learned technique; Most people in HxH don't know Nen is a thing, as it's considered too dangerous for the general populace to know of. Thus, Ten is a basic technique that does protect from Nen attacks more than a typical organism would be by default, as well as protect against other attacks, but it's basic; Far from the best for the purpose, as there are general purpose advanced Nen techniques that can generally do that better, & defense against Nen not even Ten's primary purpose. Ten is used for things like slowing one's aging by preventing natural loss of Aura/Nen.
Without something from a Nen-like UES providing something like Ten or better, I'd dare risk saying someone's hardly any better protected from Nen "bloodlust" (The stuff that may cause 1 or more of Paralysis, Fear, Madness or Death from exposure.) than a regular, untrained person or animal.
& since Killua was trained to be an assassin, & Ren is a basic use of aura meant mostly for combat, I could see him putting "Bloodlust" into his here.
But again, I can understand if there's arguments that he doesn't or wouldn't IC, so I'd like to know who's been saying what on the matter, please.
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IF it's in-character. (& if that's the case, it might be a stomp unless Yuji has win conditions independent of that. Although, it's not like Killua'll have Ren/"bloodlust" active the moment the match starts.)
Heck, I haven't kept up with the manga for years, & IDK the status on any verse updates, if there are any.
Arkenis
They/Them- 16,838
- 7,737
- Thread starter
- #10
Yuji already resist the stuff the nen aura has.Who's been saying that? What did they say?
Nen
Nen (念ネン or ネン, Nen, "Sense"; "Mind Force" in the Viz translation) is the manipulation of the life energy within every living being and is the overarching term for many techniques regarding the manipulation of life energy in the world of Hunter x Hunter. It can also be called Aura. A person...
Ren - Fear Manipulation, Limited Paralysis Inducement, Madness Manipulation (Type 3) and Limited Death Manipulation (It has been stated that without Ten, a Nen User is capable of inducing crippling fear, paralyzing people, causing insanity and even outright killing them with Nen alone, this is through malicious aura attacks), Statistics Amplification (Ren also enhances physical characteristics)
Ren (練レン, Ren; "Refine"/"Enhance") focuses on outputting a larger amount of aura than Ten and projecting it outwards violently. The user emanates a large amount of aura which enhances all of their physical capabilities such as strength and durability. By projecting malice into Ren, also called "bloodlust" by Nen Users. A prolonged experience of this can cause paralysis, intense fear, in some cases madness and without a Ten as a defence, death. It's used to intimidate other Nen Users allowing them to see the difference in power. Without malice, the pressure of Ren cannot be felt by non-users and only by extremely attentive living beings with high potential in regards to Nen.
I could believe it's somewhat OoC for Killua to show his "bloodlust" in combat, as, despite being trained as an assassin since early childhood by his family, he opposes their lifestyle -Or was it their intentions for him?- a bit, even if he does incorporate their training & lifestyle, & can be a bit tempermental/vicious in combat, in contrast to his usual collected demeanour, IIRC.
I'd also say the Nen page could use a bit of work.
But yes, Nen Crush is quite potent, especially to those without a UES with mechanics that can provide protection similar to Ten.
Ten (纏テン, Ten; "Envelop"/"Shroud") is the ability to prevent aura from leaking away from the body once the aura nodes are opened and rather, contains it within and around the body. When one masters Ten they feel a viscous, lukewarm sensation which is their emanation of aura around the body, like "wearing weightless clothes". Every living thing emanates a little aura overtime however Ten prevents aura from leaving the body which allows one to maintain a youthful vigour and age at a much slower rate. It also acts as a defence to physical attacks and emotional Nen attacks filled with malice.
Ten is a learned technique; Most people in HxH don't know Nen is a thing, as it's considered too dangerous for the general populace to know of. Thus, Ten is a basic technique that does protect from Nen attacks more than a typical organism would be by default, as well as protect against other attacks, but it's basic; Far from the best for the purpose, as there are general purpose advanced Nen techniques that can generally do that better, & defense against Nen not even Ten's primary purpose. Ten is used for things like slowing one's aging by preventing natural loss of Aura/Nen.
Without something from a Nen-like UES providing something like Ten or better, I'd dare risk saying someone's hardly any better protected from Nen "bloodlust" (The stuff that may cause 1 or more of Paralysis, Fear, Madness or Death from exposure.) than a regular, untrained person or animal.
& since Killua was trained to be an assassin, & Ren is a basic use of aura meant mostly for combat, I could see him putting "Bloodlust" into his here.
But again, I can understand if there's arguments that he doesn't or wouldn't IC, so I'd like to know who's been saying what on the matter, please.
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Good Point; not sure which 8-A calc Yuji scales too so the AP advantage could go either way, he does have better lifting strength feats than Killua. Then there's the black flash too take into account. Also, while Yuji is tough and has some pretty good regen, how much of Killua's electricity/lightning attacks can he take?
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I wouldn't say it's OP, but Killua can paralyze those stronger than him. It wouldn't take Yuji out of the game, but I can see it lasting a few seconds, maybe around 5. Enough time for Killua to break out the claws and get an artery wound of some kind. Also, there was that one time where he lightning-palmed a chimera ant in the same place multiple times and weakened that spot's durability enough for Killua to pierce through when he couldn't before.
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Apologies, but I cannot find those Resistances listed on his profile.
Despite checking all his tabbers, all I found was:
- Resistance to Possession, Poison Manipulation, Corrosion Inducement, Pain Manipulation & Soul Manipulation (Could resist Sukuna's possession.[9] Since Yuji is the host to Sukuna, he has a resistance to all kinds of poison.[1][2] Yuji will feel the pain from the poison, but he is mostly unaffected. It was demonstrated when Yuji resisted the effects of Eso and Kechizu's Decay.[10] During his fight with Junpei when he could resist Moon Dregs' poison.[11] Yuji often disregarding his body's well being in order to continue fighting.[12]. Sukuna can protect him from soul attacks[12][13])
So what do you mean, saying he resists Paralysis Inducement, & Fear, Madness, & Death Manipulation? (As well as Aura, among other things.)
Do you have any excerpts regarding the resistances you're advocating for him?
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Yuji can match and damage Hanami, who is casually above 115 tons, and as a Special Grade Curse, they should also be above the likes of Chojuro Zenin, a Grade 1 Sorcerer, who is 260 tons
Killua normally scales to 41 tons, and can amplify his attacks with Ryu and Ko by up to 10 times, which is 410 tons
In normal hand to hand fighting, Yuji claps without much effort due to his over x6 AP advantage. Any attack he deals with Divergent Fist (which is every attack) will hit twice, so Killua doesn't have much of a choice besides dodging. If his attacks end up triggering Black Flash, he straight up one shots since Black Flash more than doubles the potency of his attacks, which is all Yuji needs to surpass the x7 AP difference needed to 1 shot. Any Black Flash he lands will permanently boost his abilities by 20%, making the power difference even more polarizing.
Killua on the other hand is much more skilled in all matters of martial arts and assassination techniques, has high range and Thunderbolt which hits faster than Yuji can react, and has Paralysis with all of his lightning attacks, although his other means of incapacitation won't work due to Yuji's Indomidable Will.
basically if Yuji hits Killua a single time he's gonna be crippled for the rest of the battle, or just straight up dead if he lands Black Flash.
anything Killua throws at him will just get regenerated from since Sukuna wouldn't let Itadori just die from a random stranger. Even though Sukuna certainly isn't Yuji's ally, he has plans for him in the future, so I don't see why Sukuna wouldn't heal him when things get too bad
at the end of the day Killua has no wincons, and the most he can really do is range camp Yuji with paralysis, but he doesn't do that in character, so he just gets 2 shot
voting Yuji
Killua normally scales to 41 tons, and can amplify his attacks with Ryu and Ko by up to 10 times, which is 410 tons
In normal hand to hand fighting, Yuji claps without much effort due to his over x6 AP advantage. Any attack he deals with Divergent Fist (which is every attack) will hit twice, so Killua doesn't have much of a choice besides dodging. If his attacks end up triggering Black Flash, he straight up one shots since Black Flash more than doubles the potency of his attacks, which is all Yuji needs to surpass the x7 AP difference needed to 1 shot. Any Black Flash he lands will permanently boost his abilities by 20%, making the power difference even more polarizing.
Killua on the other hand is much more skilled in all matters of martial arts and assassination techniques, has high range and Thunderbolt which hits faster than Yuji can react, and has Paralysis with all of his lightning attacks, although his other means of incapacitation won't work due to Yuji's Indomidable Will.
basically if Yuji hits Killua a single time he's gonna be crippled for the rest of the battle, or just straight up dead if he lands Black Flash.
anything Killua throws at him will just get regenerated from since Sukuna wouldn't let Itadori just die from a random stranger. Even though Sukuna certainly isn't Yuji's ally, he has plans for him in the future, so I don't see why Sukuna wouldn't heal him when things get too bad
at the end of the day Killua has no wincons, and the most he can really do is range camp Yuji with paralysis, but he doesn't do that in character, so he just gets 2 shot
voting Yuji
speedster352
He/Him- 17,542
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Wouldn’t beheading Yuji work? Killua does that too.
koopa3144
He/Him- 7,183
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Killua has never used Nen Crush in any of his fights. Being raised by a family of assassins, he often uses assassin's techniques to kill his opponent quickly.
One example is his fight against Johness.
I have no doubt that Killua could have overwhelmed him with Nen Crush, but he didn't. We don't have enough reason to assume that he would against Yuji.
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He didn't have Nen here.Killua has never used Nen Crush in any of his fights. Being raised by a family of assassins, he often uses assassin's techniques to kill his opponent quickly.
One example is his fight against Johness.
I have no doubt that Killua could have overwhelmed him with Nen Crush, but he didn't. We don't have enough reason to assume that he would against Yuji.
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That's not the point, I'm talking about the fighting characteristic.
He always opted for killer techniques, even after Nen.
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This is a big assumption to be making considering Sukuna has left him dead for at least a day, didn't bother healing him when Choso was whooping his ass in shibuya.
Nen crush isn't happening here as it's seriously out of character, even when up against opponents superior to him who didn't have nen kilua never once used it
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It can't amp AP and dura at the same time. Killua needs to constantly transfer his aura from one part of his body to another to keep up with Yuji's vastly superior raw stats
Not to mention, Divergent Fist will screw with that as well. Let's say that Killua blocks a punch from Yuji and prepares to counterattack with Ko. The second blow from Divergent Fist will pop Killua like a balloon since the arm he blocked his hit with is no longer protected by Killua's aura
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Except in this case, Killua's just some random who doesn't have any part of Sukuna's plans, nor can Sukuna sense him and know what he's about. It's unrealistic to assume Sukuna will just let him die, especially since at this point Yuji has 15 fingers, which is the vast majority of Sukuna's powers.
Arkenis
They/Them- 16,838
- 7,737
- Thread starter
- #29
Is Early Chimera Ants arc Killua slow at this or something? If not I don't see how this is a problem.
This would be a problem if Killua wasn't a good fighter, but Killua has Rhythm Echo and can tell Yuji's strength from a glance, he'd be wary of Yuji and do Rhythm Echo to throw Yuji off like Gojo did to Sukuna. Another thing is that Divergent Fist isn't used a lot by Yuji after Shibuya and I believe only used twice in Shibuya so Yuji even using this is rare.
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The point is Sukuna has never actively healed Yuji in combat. He could still let Kilua kill him then revive Yuji later like he did before which is enough for Kilua to win under SBA.
Divergent fist isn't a problem at all considering this version of Yuji no longer uses it, the lag time isn't sufficient enough to actually take advantage of Kilua gathering his nen in a specific place.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,835
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He mastered DF after Choso's fight. Yuji does uses that. It's just not that evey time he lands a punch Gege should make a statement "Yuji is using the DF".
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Nah, I'd see it
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Fair enough, I can't argue against that
1. This is Post Shibuya Yuji, who does use it. He essentially relearns it and can utilize it in all of his attacks
2. In JJK the lag time is enough for enemies to mentally deliberate, which is more than enough time for Killua to transfer his aura for offense
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He's not. That's exactly why it's easy for him to get caught off guard. Being able to easily switch means he CAN successfully switch from offense to defense masterfully, meaning he's gonna get cooked by Divergent Fist's second attack, especially if he doesn't see it coming. Killua has no reason to assume that all of Yuji's attacks will hit literally twice, but he NEEDS 100% of his aura to tank both hits well, so if he switches after the first hit, he's gonna get folded by the second
I brought this up earlier but Killua can't use his Power Reading since he can't sense cursed energy. He'll realize that Yuji is pretty strong naturally but he's not stronger than Killua without Cursed Energy, or at least not strong enough for Killua to warrant just range camping
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what exactly is nen crush
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doesn't Supernatural Willpower counter this
like the best I can probably argue for is paralysis but this seems like the mental anguish kind of paralysis instead of the physical bodily electrochemical paralysis, which Yuji should resist the former but not the latter
