Hunter x Hunter Overhaul (Scaling)

[Mr.Cinos15]

@ShadowWhoWalks I wish people gave love to Dragon Quest on this site.

 

[Nierre]

Following

 

[Elizhaa]

I will try to reply later or at least by Monday since I am busy IRL this weekend.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem. Thank you for helping out.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Thinking now, we could use this method. The result will change to 8-B probably

Looking at the calc, I think there was a mix-up in the formula used, which exaggerated the result. What is used is:

(Surface area of explosion * Yield of explosion) / Surface area of human

But it should be:

(Surface area of human * Yield of explosion) / Surface area of explosion

or

Intensity of explosion * Surface area of human

Where the Intensity of explosion [or energy density of explosion] is Yield/Surface area of explosion

But using a similar method:

Yield = 0.34909 Tons of TNT

(0.34909 x 0.68) / (2π(10.1870769231)^2) = 0.00036406 Tons of TNT = 1523227.04 Joules
Which is Wall level. Taking human surface area into account is expected to reduce the final result a lot compared to the full yield of the explosion (Uvogin took the explosion directly head-on, so no need for that).

---

Ok, so the previous 8-A rating was based on a Bonolenov's Jupiter calc that was posted on Naruto Forums/Fanverse.

Damage made another calc on the same feat and got High 8-C+, and the calc is already approved.

Damage calc is more accurate since the depth of the crater is actually measured, while the older calc got the volume of a sphere from the diameter and then assumed that the crater has 1/3th of the volume of that sphere.

So to review the calcs we have:

1. Youpi's Rage Blast Crater: 8-A or 8-B (Armor approved the 8-A pulverization end in the thread, but there is no evaluation in the blog itself)
2. Hisoka surviving puppets bombs: 8-B (mentioned reasons why the calc might be inaccurate)
3. Benelov's Jupiter crater: High 8-C+
4. Killua tanking the Bombardier Beetle explosion: High 8-C+
5. Silva punching Cheetu into a crater: 8-C or 8-C+ (depending on frag/v.frag/pulv ratio)
6. Uvogin tanking the bazooka: 8-C

A High 8-C/8-B downgrade for most of the high-tier humans is indeed looking very likely with our current set of calcs.
The Jupiter calc is only 1.04068x from 8-B, and the Bombardier Beetle calc is only 1.1666x from 8-B. So there is a good chance we'll be able to upscale from Killua.

---

So Greed Island Gon managed to cause a gigantic tree to oscillate with Jajanken while holding back. Is this something we can calc?

---

A couple of things that might be useful later when it is time for scaling:

Nen contracts (such as Kurapika slowly reducing his lifespan when he activates ihs Scarlet Eyes) multiplies the power of Aura and causes it to skyrocket, meaning that Emperor Time Kurapika can get a 2x from his base (Kurapika's Enhancement potency goes from 60% to 100% as well, so it might be a 3.3333x multiplier for him):

Uvogin says that only Enhancers are able to successfully block his 20% punch:

The thing is that the only other Enhancers in the Phantom Troupe are Phinks and Nobunaga. This implies that most members of the Phantom Troupe and those who scale have at most 1/5th of Uvogin's durability. If we upscale to 8-B, maybe Uvogin and a select number of characters/abilities can get 8-B+.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

But it should be:

This method is used to define the durability and energy of an explosion at X distance. If it is explicit that the energy is 9-A at a radius of 5 meters for example, the formula will be different and obviously the result will be much higher

At least this is what I understood

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions here so far, in summary?

 

[Armorchompy]

We're very far from actual conclusions of any kind so I wouldn't worry

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

This method is used to define the durability and energy of an explosion at X distance. If it is explicit that the energy is 9-A at a radius of 5 meters for example, the formula will be different and obviously the result will be much higher

At least this is what I understood

Gotcha. So when away from the epicenter the explosion does X amount of damage to a human body, so we use this to find the power of the explosion at the epicenter.

(0.058137456 x 2π(10.1870769231)^2) / (0.68) = 55.748 Tons of TNT [8-B+, 2.3325E+11 Joules]

Which is a big deal. Highest non-Netero human feat so far, and as a bonus surprisingly consistent with the scaling I am thinking of.
Can publish a blog later if there is no issue.

So the new list of calcs is:

1. Youpi's Rage Blast Crater: 8-A or 8-B (Armor approved the 8-A pulverization end in the thread, but there is no evaluation in the blog itself)
2. Uvogin tanking the bazooka: 8-B+
3. Hisoka surviving puppets bombs: 8-B (mentioned reasons why the calc might be inaccurate)
4. Benelov's Jupiter crater: High 8-C+
5. Killua tanking the Bombardier Beetle explosion: High 8-C+
6. Silva punching Cheetu into a crater: 8-C or 8-C+ (depending on frag/v.frag/pulv ratio)

There is a potentially calcable feat of Gon making the gigantic tree oscilate with a punch. If you think of more feats that can bring good result let us know.
Will think of other ways to recalc the Hisoka vs bomb puppet feat.

 

[Theendzero13]

I think the 10× multiplier from ko is fine to use, jajanken is just ko with extra steps and there is a statement saying it has a 10× multiplier as well (couldn't link the scan because mobile sucks, but is in gon's fight against one of yunju's officers right at the begining of chimera ants )
I would not put much emphasis on uvogin's statements as he likely never fought all out against most members of the troupe and is just guessing ( phinks and nobu's feats suck so saying that they can tank uvogin's punches but non-enhancers troupe members with far better feats can't is kinda silly )

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm actually not sure if using square cube law like that is allowed- personally I find it very iffy

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I don't see why it wouldn't be usable. It's a circular area explosion that can evaporate human beings even at a long distance from the epicentre. By the same logic we couldn't use the square cube law to calculate Killua's durability

 

[Armorchompy]

Issue is that one's done to find the amount that the character survived, which lowers the result, the other does the opposite which I am not sure is allowed. I at least remember it being denied for some OPM calc.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Issue is that one's done to find the amount that the character survived, which lowers the result, the other does the opposite which I am not sure is allowed

I mean, it's literally accepted in a Jojo's calculation

 

[Armorchompy]

I saw, thank you. Just because it was approved doesn't mean that approval was correct. I'm just voicing my doubts on the subject.

 

[Theendzero13]

Just one question are we just talking about calcs and multipliers or are we gonna go in depth on in-verse scale here as well?

 

[Elizhaa]

I guess these options here could work for tier 8.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Yep, for most high-tier humans we are looking at High 8-C+ (which might upscale by 1.16x to the next tier due to Killua being more annoyed than hurt), or 8-B. And it looks like a number of characters can get 10x for their strongest attack.

Just one question are we just talking about calcs and multipliers or are we gonna go in depth on in-verse scale here as well?

The main topic is calcs which is the priority; we need to agree on them for in-depth discussion on other subjects. There is some side-discussion about scaling, though it is light and focused on introducing ideas to be discussed more thoroughly after we settle on the calcs.

Issue is that one's done to find the amount that the character survived, which lowers the result, the other does the opposite which I am not sure is allowed. I at least remember it being denied for some OPM calc.

Definitely has been allowed, though traditionally it has been used on a much larger scale. It is basically the same as a method for calculating the potency of explosions capable of destroying solar systems and galaxies.

Attack Potency - Solar System to Multi-Galaxy level with variables

vsbattles.fandom.com

Energy to destroy solar system = (Area explosion has to cover x GBE of reference planet) / (Frontal area of reference planet)

Energy to tank bazooka = (Area explosion is measured to cover x Energy to char human) / (Cross sectional area of human)

I think the 10× multiplier from ko is fine to use, jajanken is just ko with extra steps and there is a statement saying it has a 10× multiplier as well (couldn't link the scan because mobile sucks, but is in gon's fight against one of yunju's officers right at the begining of chimera ants )
I would not put much emphasis on uvogin's statements as he likely never fought all out against most members of the troupe and is just guessing ( phinks and nobu's feats suck so saying that they can tank uvogin's punches but non-enhancers troupe members with far better feats can't is kinda silly )

Good catch.
Hard to argue against 10x multplier for Ko.

If we don't use Uvogin's statement, I guess we can use the arm wrestling chart.

It is not specified if it was arm wrestling with Nen or not, but the arm wrestling match Nobunaga had with Gon was with Nen and he directly referenced the chart prior (The match Gon had with Shizuku used Nen as well), Kurapika's master suggested that normal physical strength is very important even with Nen, and Emperor Time Kurapika was not sure his Nen enchanced punches can harm Nen-less Uvogin's body.
Shizuku knocked out Nobunaga with a one hit from her vacuum cleaner from behind after he readied his Nen for battle, though Conjurers can add more Nen to the objects they create than directly to their body.

All in all, I am now leaning on Uvogin's statement being unreliable.

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah that method is probably fine, although I still think it's a little weird

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you to everybody who are helping out here.

 

[Theendzero13]

Ok so those are the calcs we have right now:

• 8-A from youpi
• 8-B + from uvo
• 8-B from hisoka
• high 8-C + from bonolenove
• high 8-C + from a random chimera ant

8-B hunter hunter via upscaling from bono and random chimera ants or downscaling from uvo seens like the way to go , some characters like
Gon , netero , uvo and possibly phinks are likely getting 10× multipliers with their strongest attacks

Now we need some speed feats
( think some guy named godlycharmander has a lot of those in his blog )

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

If Uvo's 8-B+ calculation is accepted he will be 8-A with multipliers

 

[Theendzero13]

If Uvo's 8-B+ calculation is accepted he will be 8-A with multipliers

Big bang impact is gonna be i guess

 

[Antvasima]

Can you link to the calculation(s) that you need evaluated please? I can ask a few calc group members in that case.

 

[Theendzero13]

Bump

 

[Theendzero13]

Can someone link the currently accepted speed calculations?

 

[Antvasima]

Can you link to the calculation(s) that you need evaluated please? I can ask a few calc group members in that case.

This still needs to be done as well.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Now we need some speed feats
( think some guy named godlycharmander has a lot of those in his blog )

Gathered a list for speed feats in my first comment which we can use as a reference. But as Armor said, it is better to focus our effort on the AP scaling first before moving to speed.

But here is GodlyCharmander's collection of speed calcs, though I have criticisms for some of them.
Couple of calculations about Uvogin catching the bullet with his teeth.

---

Can you link to the calculation(s) that you need evaluated please? I can ask a few calc group members in that case.

Published a blog for the bazooka feat:

Hunter x Hunter: Uvogin Tanks an Anti-Tank Super Bazooka

vsbattles.fandom.com

Also made a calculation for the manga version of Uvogin's Big Bang Impact, which has 8-B and 8-B+ ends:

Hunter x Hunter: Uvogin's Big Bang Impact

vsbattles.fandom.com

Damage's Youpi calc blog is unevaluated, though Pulverization which has 8-A+ yield should be used:

Youpi Crater Calc

vsbattles.fandom.com

If all is accepted, we will have:

1. Youpi's Rage Blast Crater: 8-A+
2. Uvogin tanking the bazooka: 8-B+
3. Uvogin's Big Bang Impact: 8-B+ or 8-B
4. Hisoka surviving puppets bombs: 8-B
5. Benelov's Jupiter crater: High 8-C+
6. Killua tanking the Bombardier Beetle explosion: High 8-C+
7. Silva punching Cheetu into a crater: 8-C or 8-C+ (depending on frag/v.frag/pulv ratio)

---

For the feat where Gon punches the giant tree, I'll try to find the speed the tree was swaying, and find the energy required through the kinetic energy formula. Got 8-C+ or 8-C, though if someone can find a method to calculate much higher movement for the tree wobbling around, and therefore much higher velocity, we can get a much higher result.

Spoiler: Gon Punch Tree calc

We use Gon's height to get the diameter of the tree trunk.

Diameter of tree: (1.54 x 586) / (77) = 11.72 m
Radius: 11.72 / 2 = 5.86 m

The interesting part.

Height of tree trunk: (11.72 x 188) / (43) = 51.241 m
Height of tree branching: (11.72 x 202) / (43) = 55.057 m
Diameter of tree branching: (11.72 x 343) / (43) = 93.487 m
Radius of tree branching: 93.487 / 2 = 46.7435 m

I'll assume that the tree branching is 80% and 90% hollow as ends, and get the volume as a spherical cap. This step is important since the majority of the volume comes from the branches.

Volume of tree trunk: π x (5.86)^2 x 50.432 = 5440.7 m^3
Volume of branches 1: 0.2 x 276347 = 55269.4 m^3
Volume of branches 2: 0.1 x 276347 = 27634.7 m^3

Using 1330 kg/m^3 for density of wood we can get the mass of the tree. The density is in the upper range for wood, but it is an extraordinarily tough tree that is meant to be hit.

Weight of tree trunk: 5440.7 x 1330 =7236131 kg
Weight of tree branching 1: 55269.4 x 1330 = 73508302 kg
Weight of tree branching 2: 27634.7 x 1330 = 36754151 kg
Total weight 1: 7236131 + 73508302 = 80744433 kg
Total weight 2: 7236131 + 36754151 = 43990282 kg

Next I'll calculate the movement. I'll assume the tree moved right, and then swayed all the way to the left.

Horizontal movement right: (11.72 x 18) / (33) = 6.3927 m
Horizontal movement left: (11.72 x 9) / (33) + 11.72 + 6.3927 = 21.309 m
Full movement: 6.3927 + 21.309 = 27.702 m

I've used trigonometry and arc length calculators, but the arc length is only slightly longer than the horizontal movement, so I'll skip it to simplify the calc.

Next we get the timeframe so we can calculate the average velocity. So at minimum the tree finished oscillating right and left before bugs and branches fell half the length of the tree trunk. I'll calculate distance travelled in the panel, and then use the free fall formula or an online calculator to get the timeframe.

Debris distance: (11.72 x 60) / (33) = 21.309 m

Timeframe: 2.0847 s

Average velocity: 27.702 / 2.0847 = 13.288 m/s

Finally we get the kinetic energy for both ends.

Kinetic energy 1: 0.5 x 80744433 x 13.288^2 = 7128560378.78 Joules [8-C+, 1.7037 Tons of TNT]
Kinetic energy 2: 0.5 x 43990282 x 13.288^2 = 3883702809.78 Joules [8-C, 0.9282 Tons of TNT]

Not sure if we can get better than High 8-C with the puppet bomb destruction with fragmentation. We know that Hisoka was swamped by 200 puppets, and that he died suffocating from the explosion and the mass of flesh while receiving mutilating injuries.

 

[Antvasima]

@DMUA @Therefir @Mr._Bambu @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Damage3245

Would any of you be willing to evaluate the calculation blogs listed in the above post, and then tell us here please?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/hunter-x-hunter-overhaul-scaling.116433/reply?quote=4273330

 

[Damage3245]

I've added in the Pulverization end for Youpi's calc.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

 

[Hk1488]

Someone here wanted to know the size of the hunter x hunter planet. I just calced it (though I don't have pictures of the references I used only the math)

 

[Hk1488]

Also got mass and gravitational acceleration if we are safe to assume the planet has an equalish density to ours

 

[Theendzero13]

Someone here wanted to know the size of the hunter x hunter planet. I just calced it (though I don't have pictures of the references I used only the math)

We would need an direct statement for the planet size to get its size and even most evidency for anything related to gravity and mass
Planet sizes are a very contentious topic on the wiki and we should put that apart from now

 

[Hk1488]

Well I scaled off of greed Island if that works. I know we should put that apart for now but the results were really cool. I Just did it for fun anyway.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Interestingly enough, there is a calculation for that:

Hunter X Hunter planet Parameters

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hype for Ging punching a powerful Dark Continent monster to the atmosphere after the Hiatus is over!

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Still awaiting evaluation on these three feats:

Hunter x Hunter: Uvogin Tanks an Anti-Tank Super Bazooka

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hunter x Hunter: Uvogin's Big Bang Impact

vsbattles.fandom.com

Youpi Crater Calc

vsbattles.fandom.com

Afterwards we can discuss scaling, and then properly the top-tiers to wrap up AP and then speed.

 

[Hk1488]

I got way more accurate results(higher too) if you wanna know I can explain the entire math behind my calc

 

[Theendzero13]

Well I scaled off of greed Island if that works. I know we should put that apart for now but the results were really cool. I Just did it for fun anyway.

That is alright, but the same got rejected for one piece and FT so don't get your hopes to high

 

[Theendzero13]

Interestingly enough, there is a calculation for that:

Hunter X Hunter planet Parameters

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hype for Ging punching a powerful Dark Continent monster to the atmosphere after the Hiatus is over!

---

Still awaiting evaluation on these three feats:

Hunter x Hunter: Uvogin Tanks an Anti-Tank Super Bazooka

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hunter x Hunter: Uvogin's Big Bang Impact

vsbattles.fandom.com

Youpi Crater Calc

vsbattles.fandom.com

Afterwards we can discuss scaling, and then properly the top-tiers to wrap up AP and then speed.

Try sending the calcs to dragongamerz369 or demongodmitch, they aren't hxh supporters , but normally respond to evaluation requests very fast