Hunter vs Shalltear Bloodfallen

[Jugger47]

>Ainz's spell range
Do you mean their spell range for all spells? Or are you trying to use the range of teleportation to amp the distance of other spells?

No teleportation is possibly planetary.

 

[Jugger47]

Range: Varies with most of his spells. Up to tens of kilometers with high tier spells. Hundreds of kilometers, possibly planetary via teleportation.

Why is that different for Ainz?

 

[OpMasada]

>Ainz's spell range
Do you mean their spell range for all spells? Or are you trying to use the range of teleportation to amp the distance of other spells?

No teleportation is possibly planetary.

What's the reasoning for ainz's range again? Wasn't it super-tier magic? That obviously can't scale to the rest of his spells, and shalltear doesn't have super tier magic.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It seems to be fact that some people have voted on the basis that shalltear mindhaxes (which she doesn't), so their vote should get nulled.
Specifically - Akreious and Jugger

@Zoo

This is in character battle, she doesn't do that in-character, her Einherjar is a trump card and even in the battle with Ainz she used it very late in the battle, being more cautious shouldn't change that. Hunter's profile also states that she can fly, and is also capable of apparently propelling herself to shalltear.

Their profile also says they can fire blasts via weapon.

Hunter sorta flies. it is more that they use wind currents to make them go up. Not via wings or anything. Think of it like a reverse parachute. Though their grappling hook does allow them to get close. It is used in this way in-verse. And yes. Their weapons explode on impact for increased damage.

 

[Jugger47]

Hunter sorta flies. it is more that they use wind currents to make them go up. Not via wings or anything. Think of it like a reverse parachute. Though their grappling hook does allow them to get close. It is used in this way in-verse. And yes. Their weapons explode on impact for increased damage.

Doesn't really matter here really if shalltear doesn't want to be in range she doesn't have to be, she outranges Hunter already and can teleport far greater distances than she needs to.

I still vote Shalltear due to range and distinct mobility advantage.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

If Hunter hits her, teleportation does get nulled.

 

[Jugger47]

Teleportation is instantenous and at mere thoughts lol

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yes.

But unless she does it instantly within range, which is not incredibly likely if she plans on actually fighting Hunter, her powers are sealed off immediately. Casting time doesn't matter if you don't get a chance to cast.

 

[OpMasada]

Teleportation is instantenous and at mere thoughts lol

It also isn't a way of combat that shalltear has ever used within the series lol. Btw, clarifying ainz's range so nobody gets confused again.

 

[Jugger47]

Yes.
But unless she does it instantly within range, which is not incredibly likely if she plans on actually fighting Hunter, her powers are sealed off immediately. Casting time doesn't matter if you don't get a chance to cast.

She spams teleportation, just to engage, dodge and disengage. Ill go over speed of thought over speed of reaction any day.

 

[OpMasada]

Yes.
But unless she does it instantly within range, which is not incredibly likely if she plans on actually fighting Hunter, her powers are sealed off immediately. Casting time doesn't matter if you don't get a chance to cast.

She spams teleportation, just to engage, dodge and disengage. Ill go over speed of reaction over speed of thought any day.

No she doesn't, during her fight with ainz she has only ever used teleportation once, and that was to get close to ainz.

 

[Jugger47]

Teleportation is instantenous and at mere thoughts lol

It also isn't a way of combat that shalltear has ever used within the series lol.
Btw, clarifying ainz's range so nobody gets confused again.

Shalltear selected—

"—ÒÇîGreater TeleportationÒÇì."

The plan was to teleport into close range and begin melee combat.

Her field of vision distorted, but the scenery that should have instantly appeared before her eyes felt like it had been slowed down.

Cheh!

Shalltear guessed that this was the effect of the teleport-impeding spell, ÒÇîDelay TeleportationÒÇì."

She was only immpeded due to Ainz Delay Teleportation and dispite that.

She had not expected this magic barrier — upon which she had spent a significant amount of mana — to be broken in one move. Shalltear was unable to believe this as the attack on her continued.

"It's not over yet! ÒÇîMaximize Magic - Thousand Bone LanceÒÇì!"

"—ÒÇîGreater TeleportationÒÇì."

Her teleport destination was an open space in the air, outside of the ÒÇîDelay TeleportationÒÇì spell's area of effect.

She obviously still used it to dodge. She clearly uses it in battle as a normal strategy.

 

[OpMasada]

Teleportation is instantenous and at mere thoughts lol

It also isn't a way of combat that shalltear has ever used within the series lol.
Btw, clarifying ainz's range so nobody gets confused again.

Shalltear selected—
"—ÒÇîGreater TeleportationÒÇì."

The plan was to teleport into close range and begin melee combat.

Her field of vision distorted, but the scenery that should have instantly appeared before her eyes felt like it had been slowed down.

Cheh!

Shalltear guessed that this was the effect of the teleport-impeding spell, ÒÇîDelay TeleportationÒÇì."

She was only immpeded due to Ainz Delay Teleportation and dispite that.

She had not expected this magic barrier — upon which she had spent a significant amount of mana — to be broken in one move. Shalltear was unable to believe this as the attack on her continued.

"It's not over yet! ÒÇîMaximize Magic - Thousand Bone LanceÒÇì!"

"—ÒÇîGreater TeleportationÒÇì."

Her teleport destination was an open space in the air, outside of the ÒÇîDelay TeleportationÒÇì spell's area of effect.

She obviously still used it to dodge. She clearly uses it in battle as a normal strategy.

Guess I forgot that part, but that was clearly in anticipation of that spell, she had never used it during the melee part. You also just gave me something to talk about whenever someone tries to bring up "Lol Ainz delays teleport" to discard one's teleportation.

 

[Jugger47]

No she doesn't, during her fight with ainz she has only ever used teleportation once, and that was to get close to ainz.

My scan straight up just proved she uses it to dodge. Even though Ainz has disruption against teleportation she still did it.

 

[Jugger47]

Also ignore that crap about the range, there is some confusing wording with Ainz range description.

 

[OpMasada]

Also ignore that crap about the range, there is some confusing wording with Ainz range description.

I changed the description, does that change make more sense to you?

 

[Jugger47]

Guess I forgot that part, but that was clearly in anticipation of that spell, she had never used it during the melee part. You also just gave me something to talk about whenever someone tries to bring up "Lol Ainz delays teleport" to discard one's teleportation.

I'm not really saying that she'll use it in mele though, I'm talking about any of Hunters range projectiles, she is going to dodge.

 

[OpMasada]

Guess I forgot that part, but that was clearly in anticipation of that spell, she had never used it during the melee part. You also just gave me something to talk about whenever someone tries to bring up "Lol Ainz delays teleport" to discard one's teleportation.

I'm not really saying that she'll use it in mele though, I'm talking about any of Hunters range projectiles, she is going to dodge.

Well she'll just be wasting her mana, sooner or later she won't be able to do it anymore. Unlike the attitude shown by the Overlord verse to not dodge (I find dodging to be pretty scarce in the novel), I doubt hunter will just stand there and take the hit from whatever ranged spell shalltear would use (which would only further deplete her mana aswell).

 

[Jugger47]

I changed the description, does that change make more sense to you?

Yea thats better, I was geuninely under the impression that even spells like what Shalltear can use can reach that far.

 

[Jugger47]

Well she'll just be wasting her mana, sooner or later she won't be able to do it anymore.

Idk I mean I cannot see how she is going to die, she basically has 3 massive damage nullficiation in the shape of Time Reverse, and a single Implosion is going to kill Hunter.

With these fights I cannot say what exactly either will do.

So im stating why I think shalltear has the advantage.

Shalltear can survive 3 fatal blows.

Self Revive Once.

She is able to spam teleportation to dodge projectliles, engage, re-engage.

A single Implosion is going to kill the hunter.

I mean, I don't see Shalltear winning for certain but I think its more likely than Hunter winning thats for sure.

And I mean, if she dies and revives don't you think she is just going to want to kill the hunter right away with something like Implosion?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Shalltear's resurrection is also nulled. Hunter nulls both Res and Necromancy.

 

[OpMasada]

Hunter can nullify implosion from posts above

Hunter can nullify the revive

Teleportation will just drain her mana, and she's not going to use it for melee so it won't matter

 

[Jugger47]

Shalltear's resurrection is also nulled. Hunter nulls both Res and Necromancy.

How strong is the null?

Ainz would have nulled her ressurection since he knew ahead of time that she had it if he could have. With a spell like [True Death]

Regardless though she still has the distinct advantage in my mind. If she is really going to have to use Time Reverse 3 or even 1 time, she is going straight for the implosion and that is one instantly dead hunter.

 

[Jugger47]

Im honestly having a hard time finding the part about implosion being nulled.

Is it the Mid-Low tier regen, because if so, that is not enough for entire internal organs being destroyed.

 

[OpMasada]

Shalltear's resurrection is also nulled. Hunter nulls both Res and Necromancy.

How strong is the null?
Ainz would have nulled her ressurection since he knew ahead of time that she had it if he could have. With a spell like [True Death]

Regardless though she still has the distinct advantage in my mind. If she is really going to have to use Time Reverse 3 or even 1 time, she is going straight for the implosion and that is one instantly dead hunter.

"Ainz would have nulled her res with true death"

Lolno? Shalltear is resistant to instant death so true death wasn't doing shit, and don't try saying he was going to use it with TGOALID, that would be stupid for a guy with no res of his own as ainz would need 12 seconds for it to activate and he was busy dodging her Einherjar, alongside the fact you have no proof he would have.

 

[Jugger47]

Wait, you do know that Shalltear self revives because of an Item right and not a power she has?


...So I can't finish this cleanly, huh? Damn you, Peroroncino, did you build her specifically to counter me? To think you actually gave her a resurrection item! Dammit!

Power null here effects the items someone has too?

Also I sort of misunderstood it has just nullification of ressurection but I see now. If power null really effects her self res item I do think Hunter wins then.

If not Shalltear wins.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Dragon Element seals the powers of the players items if the dragons use it so I would say yes.

 

[Jugger47]

Dragon Element seals the powers of the players items if the dragons use it so I would say yes.

Its something that is used up on death, its basically a passive when its on her person, she didn't have to "use" it. She just had it.

 

[Jugger47]

Dragon Element seals the powers of the players items if the dragons use it so I would say yes.

In monster hunter are your passive items rendered useless too?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I suppose use is not a very good term. By use, I mean things like effects on their armor- so yes. Passive. Elderseal works on most things. "Dragon Element weapons have the Elderseal property. Repeatedly attacking an Elder Dragon with Elderseal weapons can temporarily disable their passive abilities"

 

[Jugger47]

I suppose use is not a very good term. By use, I mean things like effects on their armor- so yes. Passive. Elderseal works on most things.

"Taking Dragon damage can cause Dragonblight which can lower weapon affinity, competely remove a weapon's elemental damage, and even lower the special attack ratings on poison, paralysis, sleep, and slime/blast."

MHW Wiki.

I see nothing about that for dragon element.

You need to provide some sort of scan or something that proves it'll work on an item that works as a passive. Its not a weapon or armor but an accessory/item like Ainz little sticks he uses to summon his old guild mates weapons. But she doesn't need to actually use it, she just dies and she is revived if its on her person.

If you can prove that, Ill vote hunter, sealing all of that is just too much. However if Shalltear rezzes then she will no longer be under the effect and will kill with implosion.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Can't really do that, I'm afraid. We've proven it negs necromancy like on Vaal Hazak, and it works on items being held, but the two are never seen in conjunction. In my opinion it seems obvious it would work but if that isn't sufficient for you, that's your opinion.

 

[OpMasada]

In Monster Hunter: World, Dragon Element weapons have the Elderseal property. Repeatedly attacking an Elder Dragon with Elderseal weapons can temporarily disable their passive abilities, such as Kiri's lightning armor, Vaal Hazak's miasma veil, or Nergigante's Regenerationn.

From the monster hunter wiki.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Op is right though. Was not looking at what I'd assume was the Fextralife wiki? Was looking at the Monster Hunter one in general. More reliable. Still, don't think that'd change your mind.

 

[Jugger47]

Can't really do that, I'm afraid. We've proven it negs necromancy like on Vaal Hazak, and it works on items being held, but the two are never seen in conjunction. In my opinion it seems obvious it would work but if that isn't sufficient for you, that's your opinion.

In my opinion there is a difference between wielding and just having it. If nobody can prove that then I vote shalltear wins via implosion likely after her self-ressurection.

And I defiently wouldn't say that Hunter for certain nulls Shalltears Self-Ressurection item.

 

[Jugger47]

In Monster Hunter: World, Dragon Element weapons have the Elderseal property. Repeatedly attacking an Elder Dragon with Elderseal weapons can temporarily disable their passive abilities, such as Kiri's lightning armor, Vaal Hazak's miasma veil, or Nergigante's Regenerationn.
From the monster hunter wiki.

Thats not what im talking about.

Those are part of their powers.

Shalltear has an item that sacrifices itself to revive. She doesn't even need to use it. Its not part of her, or her powers, its just on her person.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yeah. So like we've said. We've seen it affect carried items like charms and armor and whatnot, and we've seen it neg necromancy/resurrection, but no carried item has necromancy so it is up to you to decide if you wanna split hairs there since I guess there's nothing saying you can't.

 

[Jugger47]

Yeah. So like we've said. We've seen it affect carried items like charms and armor and whatnot, and we've seen it neg necromancy/resurrection, but no carried item has necromancy so it is up to you to decide if you wanna split hairs there since I guess there's nothing saying you can't.

Yea, ill stick to voting shalltear. If there is no feat nulling it, then I'd rather not assume it will be able to.

 

[OpMasada]

If it was already shown to nullify carried items alongside showing res is within it's bound of nullification, why are you unwilling to accept it can nullify an item's res? Because it hasn't shown to explicity null res by an item?

That's very stupid and can be compared to me saying "Shalltear can't implode hunter because she hasn't explicity shown to affect someone with Hunter's tier", now regardless of the fact that what I said might have been a bad comparison, you get what I mean don't you?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

There is, but I'm just sorta done with the thread and you can technically split hairs in this way. Cheers man.