Hulk: an Immortal CRT

[Antvasima]

I definitely wouldn't call him more intelligent than Banner just because he has superhuman intuition.

 

[The_Impress]

I think it is more easily described as Extrasensory Perception, no?

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, that is correct. Thanks.

 

[DanielIH15]

@Ant I call him more intelligent than Banner because Banner himself said so. He literally said "He's smarter than me now" and "He's smarter than I am". I accept that I'm not the best person to measure intelligence in fiction, so I'm not sure how to interpret those two statements. But definetely Devil Hulk has at least above average intelligence I think.
@Zark2099 The magical thinking iself could be, yes. But the clairvoyance page says "The term clairvoyance is generally defined as the ability to gain information about an object, person, location or physical event through extrasensory Perception." Seeing what Hulk have done, I think it would be the best, don't you think? We could say that Hulk is able to get information through extransensory perception. (I think it's the most appropriate because he knew about Euphoria, a planet that, until that moment, only Silver Surfer should know about it.)

 

[Antvasima]

I think that it seems like and exaggeration, but maybe we could list him with "Unknown, at least Above Average" intelligence, as that is all that he has demonstrated in practice.

 

[The_Impress]

Anyhow, save for scan 8 and 9, rest is definitely not anything but basic logical outcomes, and even 8 and 9 are somewhat doubtful and probably out of context. I'd disagree with adding these abilities

Also the intelligence thing could might as well be an exaggeration by Banner. It's the same as calling Iron Man smarter than Strange, both are completely different worlds with no way to measure except for biased opinion

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Zark.

 

[DanielIH15]

@Ant It could be, yes. Okay, no problem with that. It's safest thing for now.

@Zark2099 In fact, 8 and 9 aren't out of context, those scans are like the only context. About 8, those scans are really the only thing that the comic shows about Hulk getting Nyx power, the same about 9, Hulk just knew about Euphoria, without any explanation. We could say that Hulk knew that the last night shard was in Euphoria because, having already one fragment within hmself, he could feel the other one there (Nyx, after getting one, says "it restores my senses! Binds me to the other fragments") but that doesn't explain how he knew the name of the planet or that it was sentient, or that it makes dreams come true (After getting the fragment, Nyx could feel that the other one was in Euphoria, but she didn't know anything about the planet, so the fragment didn't give that info to Hulk)

The issues in question are Avengers: No Road Home #6 and #7, if you're interested.

 

[The_Impress]

Well, that's likely poor writing if anything, ngl

 

[DanielIH15]

I don't think so if you ask me, I think it is related to his magical thinking, which works irrationally (it was irrational that he knew about Euphoria.). But okay, no problem, I could be wrong. I got the idea from Yobo Blue, who also thought it was some kind of clairvoyance (He thought it was, as he said to me in his message wall "He's converted his intellectual capacity into the magical ability to sense thing and clairvoyant hunches") but I see it might not be. Anyway, which would be the best way to add the magical thinking stuff to the profile? Or is not necessary?

 

[The_Impress]

Perhaps we can add a suitable description to the Intelligence section

 

[Antvasima]

Feel free to write a suggestion for his intelligence section here.

Also, we still need to separate the Devil Hulk's statistics and abilities to a separate key.

 

[The_Impress]

The description would likely go as this:

As the Devil Hulk, he holds the ability to analyze situations and reach conclusions and solutions successfully using "unreason and magical thinking"

I can't think of any other way to describe it due to total lack of feats.

 

[DanielIH15]

It would be the best, originally I thought about putting the magical thinking stuff in the intelligence section as you can see in point 10 of the original post. In addition, I propose to change the name of the Green Hulk key to Savage Hulk key (it would be better, because Green Hulk could be Professor Hulk too, for say an example. Even Green Scar, better known as World War Hulk, is green). Grey hulk can stay with that name, or we can chage it to Joe Fixit, .

Also, looking in Avengers: No Road Home for Hulk feats and stuff, I reminded this . Banner/Hulk couldn't get close to the House of Ideas because it was a "Holy Ground", so he has now somekind of weakness against what? Holy things or...? What do you think? EditZark2099 The desciption looks fine to me. Also, we should put in the Grey Hulk intelligence section that he can access to Banner's knowledge, as you can see here

 

[Antvasima]

That description seems fine to me.

 

[HAKKAIDER]

venon and absolute carnage fused with hulk is new persona or absolute carnage ?

 

[Antvasima]

Symbiote Hulk is not relevant enough for a new statistics key.

 

[DanielIH15]

Ant is right about Symbiote Hulk

 

[Cropfist]

what about Venom with the Madness?

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

doesn't hulk have 2-C to 2-A feats in immortal hulk

 

[DanielIH15]

Yes, but it have been already discussed and not accepted because they're outliers or they need a better context. Anyway, there's still the need to see what I posted earlier today (the thing about the "holy ground" and that, as Grey Hulk, the Hulk can access to Banner knowledge)

 

[Antvasima]

Let's focus on getting things done here, specifically an extra statistics key for the Devil Hulk/Immortal Hulk.

 

[DanielIH15]

Correct. If you ask me, personally I think the Devil / Immortal Hulk's exclusive things are as follows:
1) The ability to drain people's radiation.
2) Smelling lies and seeing the souls of the people.
3) Body control.
4) The magical thinking
5) Resistance to illusions and fear manipulation.
6) Weakness againts sunlight and UV radiation. Although he could overcame this weakness, because the cover of Immortal Hulk #27 shows Hulk in the day, but I think we'll know this when the issue is released.
7) He can't get too much angry because, as a safety mechanism, he changes to Savage Hulk, so he can't get stronger. Although, I have the impression that he overcame this problem in his fight against Fortean because he said that the Big Guy (Savage Hulk) was still inside, despite he was very, very angry, and he also said "And the angrier I get.. You know the rest" so that would imply he can get angry now.

8) That thing that he can't get near things related to TOAA because those things are "holy"

9) All the Hulks should have Immortality type 1, 3 and 4, but there's the possibility that Devil Hulk is the only one that have type 2. Savage Hulk was decapitated once and I think he died, but resurrected afterward (No Surrender put that alongside the moments Banner/Hulk has died, but not sure, maybe he didn't die, the scan in question doesn't show the green door open).

 

[Antvasima]

That mostly seems fine to me, although I do not remember him having an aversion to holy things.

 

[DanielIH15]

Thanks for cheking it.
Here is the sca What do you think? He said he can't be there because the House of Ideas is "holy ground". But that's not exactly holy in a normal sense, so I'm not sure how to interpret it, specially because Hulk looks like he doesn't have any weakness against other holy things, like Mjolnir.

Maybe Hulk is just repelled by the One Above all because he's related to the One Below All?

 

[Antvasima]

You seem to be correct. That is a legitimate weakness for the Devil Hulk then.

 

[DanielIH15]

Good. Now, if we're making a Devil Hulk key, will be needed a picture, right? So I ask, besides putting a a picture of him as Hulk, would be needed a picture of how he looks inside of Banner mind? Because, as we can see originally in that Paul Jenkins run, in Immortal Hulk #15 and in Absolute Carnage: Immortal Hulk, he looks diferent inside of Banner's mind, and that's like his real form.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not think that it is necessary, as he looks like the green Hulk on the outside.

 

[DanielIH15]

Okay. I'll look for some pictures to choose the most suitable one. Also, I'll look for a good quote.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[DanielIH15]

I found this quoute, from Immortal Hulk #15 when he explains to Samson why he wants to end the world:

You wonder why I'm angry? You want to know why I want to end the human world, Samson? Because if I do it, some of 'em will live.

What do you think about this picture, is it good?

 

[Antvasima]

The quote is fine, but we preferably need a rendered picture where he is standing if we are going to use it.

 

[The_Impress]

Why do we even need it in the first place? It's no different a look than Green Hulk.

 

[DanielIH15]

In that case, we could use how Devil Hulk looks inside of Banner mind, there he looks like a reptile... Anyway, Zark2099 has a point, maybe another picture is not needed.

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that a picture is unnecessary.

 

[The_Impress]

Using the Devil Hulk as he appears in Banner's mind is pointless as well IMO, as that form isn't visually seen by other characters or a form used by him in the physical space.

Getting a new image tab for this is cluttering IMO, and we should instead focus at getting the key first off

 

[Antvasima]

Agreed.

 

[DanielIH15]

I proposed the picture because I thought that way the distinction could be more noticeable, but I see is not necessary. So, in regards to the quote I posted, it just has to be put under the one of the Savage Hulk?

And about the statistics of Devil Hulk, we all agree that things like speed, lifting and striking strength, durability and range stays equal, it's just necessary to add changes in the intelligence, abilities and weaknesses sections, right?. But what do we do with the AP section? We put something like "Comparable to Savage Hulk" or "Stronger than Savage Hulk"?

 

[Antvasima]

We can also scale him from being more powerful than Thor.

 

[DanielIH15]

That's a better option, I think, yes.

I'm making a draft of the Hulk profile with the changes and the Devil Hulk key done, and I'll post it here to see if it good.