Huge Honkai Revisions PART 2

[Qawsedf234]

“inherits all of the 11 dimensions of the bathtub”, which means that the universes inherits the 11-dimensions of the Sea. Does that make sense?

Not really. Because you'd still have to prove that the leaves gained 7 additional infinite dimensional axis after coming off the tree, rather than just get displaced within an 11-Dimensional ocean.

“Low 1-C is fine” on Stocking.exe’s CRT.

Because I was working under a different assumption. If the Sea is 11-D then it could hold an uncountable infinite number of 4D universes without issue.

Also with this aside, the Sea containing the 11-D bubble worlds would make it 12-D at an submicroscopic scale nonetheless.

I don't see it, since the bubbles would at best be Low 1-C, which still means an 11-Dimensional space can hold an uncountable infinite number of them without issue.

 

[Phoenks]

I think what Garri is trying to say is that the individual universes are 11D, not 4D. And then applying the uncountable MWI to that to get up to 12D.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Not really. Because you'd still have to prove that the leaves gained 7 additional infinite dimensional axis after coming off the tree, rather than just get displaced within an 11-Dimensional ocean.

Well, it has been discussed and accepted that the Sea has infinite extension of its dimensional axes. And the universe with the “finitely curled up” dimensions only applied to one universe (and iirc, that Universe isn’t even in the Sea of Quanta). So meaning inheriting the 11-dimensions from the Sea of Quanta means having each bubble world’s property having infinitely extended 11-dimensions.

Here’s a statement that says when a bubble universe enter the Sea of Quanta, it must inherit 11-dimensions from it.

Because I was working under a different assumption. If the Sea is 11-D then it could hold an uncountable infinite number of 4D universes without issue.

I see.

I don't see it, since the bubbles would at best be Low 1-C, which still means an 11-Dimensional space can hold an uncountable infinite number of them without issue.

I was talking from the sense that the bubble worlds are already 11-D. But aight, I’d further explained how bubble worlds are indeed 11-D with no compacification.

 

[Qawsedf234]

So meaning inheriting the 11-dimensions from the Sea of Quanta means having each bubble world’s property having infinitely extended 11-dimensions.

You'd need a lot more evidence of that. Since they could just be 2-A/Low 1-C floating in an 11th Dimensional Space.

Here’s a statement that says when a bubble universe enter the Sea of Quanta, it must inherit 11-dimensions from it.

That's standard string theory of 4D + 7D. That doesn't make them High 1-C spaces. Especially since the super-membrane of the sea is 11-Dimensional in the first place.

 

[GarrixianXD]

You'd need a lot more evidence of that. Since they could just be 2-A/Low 1-C floating in an 11th Dimensional Space.

Hmmm… inheritance means directly deriving a quality or property from something else. Wouldn’t comprehending the universe as having 11-dimensions itself rather than floating through the 11-dimensions of the sea be a much more simple and accurate way of depicting it?

That's standard string theory of 4D + 7D. That doesn't make them High 1-C spaces. Especially since the super-membrane of the sea is 11-Dimensional in the first place.

The standard string theory applies for all universes. Those bubble universes in the Sea of Quanta are explicitly said to inherit the dimensions of the Sea of Quanta, which axes does infinitely extend.

Are you fine with a possibly 1-B rating? Or does these arguments still do not appeal to you? If it’s the latter then I’ll like this CRT closed, since a part of this has already been widely accepted and applied.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Wouldn’t comprehending the universe as having 11-dimensions itself rather than floating through the 11-dimensions of the sea be a much more simple and accurate way of depicting it?

In string cosmology is that the various string dimensions vibrate and angle themselves in finite distances in higher dimensional angles. So them inheriting additional dimensions in the Sea doesn't mean anything on its own.

Sea of Quanta, which axes does infinitely extend.

They get the other 7D stuff when going into the membrane, but that doesn't mean they each extended infinitely in those axis. It wouldn't even make sense as the Sea wouldn't be able to hold an infinite number of 11-Dimensional spaces while its also just 11-Dimensional.

Are you fine with a possibly 1-B rating?

No

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Honestly the trees tiering should be held off till tiering system revisions are through because there's a good chance it'll be at least low 1-A

Sea however I guess is fair game anyways

 

[Woomica]

The Sea is 11-D through Brane cosmology. Which wouldn't give it or the tree a 12D rating.

Disagree,tree already has bunch of scans showing its superiority to the sea,narratively,structure wise,dimensional wise and thats even explained in the op
Tree has its own way of scaling it should not be compared to the sea,otherwise tree would have been accesible easily like SoQ,but nope only god tiers could ever achieve that

 

[inkownn]

Honestly this whole discussion is a bit silly considering the Tree is actually stated to have 4 space proper dimensions and 7 finitely curled up ones.
“For example, what we well know as “that Universe”, is a brane class which merely has “4 infinitely extending dimensions, 7 finitely curled up dimensions, and all kinds of variables in line with daily life"”

CA1: “Prove ‘that universe’ is in reference to the Imaginary Tree and not just the main leaf universe”
Simple, using process of elimination we can actually rule out it referring to any structure other than the Sea of Quanta and Imaginary Tree as they are the only conventional higher dimensional structures in the verse. The leaf universes like the main one Honkai inhabits is actually only 4 dimensional on its own.
This is actually reiterated upon again in which it says that the leaf universe is only 3d space and 1d time, and that the extra dimensions only exist in the imaginary outside of the leaf’s bounds (The Tree).

CA2: “Well prove it’s not referring to the Sea of Quanta then.”
Simple again, in the scan prior it had already reiterated that the Sea of Quanta has 11 dimensions, so it would be redundant narratively to mention it again. Not only that, but the word the CN text uses is “宇宙" which is almost always used to describe the Imaginary Tree. It often uses 世界 for Universe as in leaf universes and 量子之海 for the Sea of Quanta.

Additional piece of evidence:
-Durandal can exist in the Imaginary Tree due to her fusion with higher dimensions, dimensions she inherited from the 11d Sea of Quanta. This seems to imply that the Sea of Quanta and the Tree have the same dimensionality.

And so;
1. Leaf Worlds aren't 11d
2. The Imginary Tree is explicitly not 12 dimensional, but 11 dimensional


Also why are we adding these changes to pages already? It hasn’t been accepted.

 

[Phoenks]

Honestly this whole discussion is a bit silly considering the Tree is actually stated to have 4 space proper dimensions and 7 finitely curled up ones.
“For example, what we well know as “that Universe”, is a brane class which merely has “4 infinitely extending dimensions, 7 finitely curled up dimensions, and all kinds of variables in line with daily life"”

Oh wow. With this scan I think the whole 11-Dness of the cosmology/universe should be called into question. If it explicitly says the additional 7 axes are finite/curled up then they don't qualify at all for Quantitative Superiority.

Or am I mistaken? I could've sworn such dimensions weren't valid for higher-dimensional scaling...

 

[Woomica]

Honestly this whole discussion is a bit silly considering the Tree is actually stated to have 4 space proper dimensions and 7 finitely curled up ones.
“For example, what we well know as “that Universe”, is a brane class which merely has “4 infinitely extending dimensions, 7 finitely curled up dimensions, and all kinds of variables in line with daily life"”

Actually, if I may backtrack a little bit: I looked at the scans again, and I realized that the one scan saying that the extra dimensions are compact is referring to one specific universe, and not the Quantum Sea as a whole. It's actually plausible for the Quantum Sea to be an actual 11-D structure, given that:

1. It explicitly does not belong to any one universe, but is a medium that can carry all possible worlds.
2. Its structure cannot be described within a 3-D or even 4-D mathematical framework.
3. It is described as an 11-dimensional "ether bathtub" that all "world bubbles" are embedded within.
4. The structure of the world bubble is described as a set of manifolds embedded into a high-dimensional space (the Quantum Sea).

So, at the very least, I am open to the idea of High 1-C now. Whether it is put as a solid tier or as a possible/likely rating remains to be discussed.
This is coming from this crt https://vsbattles.com/threads/honkai-impact-upgrade-to-high-1-b.109724/page-2
not only is this- a headcannon scan you posted,but its blatantly wrong

CA1: “Prove ‘that universe’ is in reference to the Imaginary Tree and not just the main leaf universe”
Simple, using process of elimination we can actually rule out it referring to any structure other than the Sea of Quanta and Imaginary Tree as they are the only conventional higher dimensional structures in the verse. The leaf universes like the main one Honkai inhabits is actually only 4 dimensional on its own.
This is actually reiterated upon again in which it says that the leaf universe is only 3d space and 1d time, and that the extra dimensions only exist in the imaginary outside of the leaf’s bounds (The Tree).

CA2: “Well prove it’s not referring to the Sea of Quanta then.”
Simple again, in the scan prior it had already reiterated that the Sea of Quanta has 11 dimensions, so it would be redundant narratively to mention it again. Not only that, but the word the CN text uses is “宇宙" which is almost always used to describe the Imaginary Tree. It often uses 世界 for Universe as in leaf universes and 量子之海 for the Sea of Quanta.

Additional piece of evidence:
-Durandal can exist in the Imaginary Tree due to her fusion with higher dimensions, dimensions she inherited from the 11d Sea of Quanta. This seems to imply that the Sea of Quanta and the Tree have the same dimensionality.

And so;
1. Leaf Worlds aren't 11d
2. The Imginary Tree is explicitly not 12 dimensional, but 11 dimensional


Also why are we adding these changes to pages already? It hasn’t been accepted.

the op said otherwise,none of this is connected to what op says
and the Tree scaling does not come from soq stop comparing them to each other

 

[inkownn]

Oh wow. With this scan I think the whole 11-Dness of the cosmology/universe should be called into question. If it explicitly says the additional 7 axes are finite/curled up then they don't qualify at all for Quantitative Superiority.

Or am I mistaken? I could've sworn such dimensions weren't valid for higher-dimensional scaling...

They should be called into question I agree. This was actually the consensus before, but was changed as of recent for upgrades.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Also why are we adding these changes to pages already? It hasn’t been accepted.

This thread has over 3 staff approvals so the IT stuff has been concluded.

You are blatantly lying about the Imaginary Tree being in the context and twisting the term “宇宙” to force it as it is the context of it being the Tree. Your interpretation upon the CN text is just horrendously wrong.

And that CRT you linked is not even approved nor concluded, and been heavily debated upon.

I have asked for this thread to be closed. I’d advise to you stop shamelessly circulating false information, unless you want this matter to be taken to the rules violations reports thread.

 

[inkownn]

Actually, if I may backtrack a little bit: I looked at the scans again, and I realized that the one scan saying that the extra dimensions are compact is referring to one specific universe, and not the Quantum Sea as a whole. It's actually plausible for the Quantum Sea to be an actual 11-D structure, given that:

1. It explicitly does not belong to any one universe, but is a medium that can carry all possible worlds.
2. Its structure cannot be described within a 3-D or even 4-D mathematical framework.
3. It is described as an 11-dimensional "ether bathtub" that all "world bubbles" are embedded within.
4. The structure of the world bubble is described as a set of manifolds embedded into a high-dimensional space (the Quantum Sea).

That’s a lot of words. Too bad none of them matter because my argument argues that “that universe” refers to the Imaginary Tree, not the Sea of Quanta. It does not refer to one specific universe, as I already have scans showing that wouldn’t be possible via Reductio ad Absurdism.

“not only is this- a headcannon scan you posted,but its blatantly wrong”
Headcanon scan? I must be going mad because I’ve never heard that phrase before. Let me know what’s wrong about it.

I compared the Sea and the Tree using the fact Durandal can enter the tree despite the fact her extra dimension come from the Sea.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Oh wow. With this scan I think the whole 11-Dness of the cosmology/universe should be called into question. If it explicitly says the additional 7 axes are finite/curled up then they don't qualify at all for Quantitative Superiority.

Or am I mistaken? I could've sworn such dimensions weren't valid for higher-dimensional scaling...

Actually universes vary in what they inherit so it's a deal where universes can fully work on brane cosmology but others can work differently.

Such as here

"We know that a three-dimensional soap bubble will form a nearly two-dimensional sphere;And these “Bubble Worlds”, for all 11 dimensions possessed by the “Ether Bathtub”, have their own “choice” in their inheritance.”

 

[inkownn]

This thread has over 3 staff approvals so the IT stuff has been concluded.

You are blatantly lying about the Imaginary Tree being in the context and twisting the term “宇宙” to force it as it is the context of it being the Tree. Your interpretation upon the CN text is just horrendously wrong.

And that CRT you linked is not even approved nor concluded, and been heavily debated upon.

I have asked for this thread to be closed. I’d advise to you stop shamelessly circulating false information, unless you want this matter to be taken to the rules violations reports thread.

The first part is whatever.

Why? Can you tell me how I am wrong here. I linked something already that showed 宇宙 referring to the tree and I have other evidence besides that.

What CRT? The one that happened last year? That was to show that the arguement has been brought up before.

 

[GarrixianXD]

The first part is whatever.

Why? Can you tell me how I am wrong here. I linked something already that showed 宇宙 referring to the tree and I have other evidence besides that.

What CRT? The one that happened last year? That was to show that the arguement has been brought up before.

宇宙 means universe and 世界 means world, both can like synonyms, end of the story.

 

[Phoenks]

Actually universes vary in what they inherit so it's a deal where universes can fully work on brane cosmology but others can work differently.

Such as here

According to that user it is referring to the Imaginary Tree, though. So idk, seems confusing.

Also, even if "others work differently" that doesn't mean you can assume there are those that have 11 infinite branes. I am confused by the sentiment.

Anyway I don't really care much for the verse but that's kinda sus.

 

[Woomica]

The first part is whatever.

Why? Can you tell me how I am wrong here. I linked something already that showed 宇宙 referring to the tree and I have other evidence besides that.

What CRT? The one that happened last year? That was to show that the arguement has been brought up before.

and it wasnt accepted and the scaling was still accepted as 11d so no

That’s a lot of words. Too bad none of them matter because my argument argues that “that universe” refers to the Imaginary Tree, not the Sea of Quanta. It does not refer to one specific universe, as I already have scans showing that wouldn’t be possible via Reductio ad Absurdism.

whatever that means

“not only is this- a headcannon scan you posted,but its blatantly wrong”
Headcanon scan? I must be going mad because I’ve never heard that phrase before. Let me know what’s wrong about it.

I compared the Sea and the Tree using the fact Durandal can enter the tree despite the fact her extra dimension come from the Sea.

one scan show durandal accesing the tree via extra dimensions,anothers shows her accesing ether anchor,how does that connect to the argument? why you use ggz feat to claim a hi3 feat,just because it comes from same verse doesnt mean a ggz feat will apply to hi3 feat,can you clarify argument better i did not understand it well

 

[inkownn]

宇宙 means universe and 世界 means world, both can like synonyms, end of the story.

This is looking from a direct perspective. Which would be a half truth fallacy. While yes 宇宙 means universe and 世界 means world, 宇宙 is often used to portray the Tree while 世界 is often used to portray the leaf worlds. This is further contextualized by how the statement physically cannot be referring to the leaf worlds as the leaf worlds are not 11d.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Also, even if "others work differently" that doesn't mean you can assume there are those that have 11 infinite branes. I am confused by the sentiment.

Yes you can assume there are those that have 11 infinite branes if there are infinite of these worlds and each have a choice in what they inherit. It's only logical that there ends up being full on 11-D stuff.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

According to that user it is referring to the Imaginary Tree, though. So idk, seems confusing.

Also it's referring to specific bubble worlds and not the actual tree itself.

"We know that a three-dimensional soap bubble will form a nearly two-dimensional sphere;And these “Bubble Worlds”, for all 11 dimensions possessed by the “Ether Bathtub”, have their own “choice” in their inheritance.”

“For example, what we well know as “that Universe”, is a brane class which merely has “4 infinitely extending dimensions, 7 finitely curled up dimensions, and all kinds of variables in line with daily life"”

It's basic reading comprehension when it says stuff about the bubble worlds in specific inheriting dimensions then you have a follow up example of inheritance which should also be another bubble world.

 

[inkownn]

one scan show durandal accesing the tree via extra dimensions,anothers shows her accesing ether anchor,how does that connect to the argument? why you use ggz feat to claim a hi3 feat,just because it comes from same verse doesnt mean a ggz feat will apply to hi3 feat,can you clarify argument better i did not understand it well

You need to be merged with extra dimensions to walk the Tree, likely referring to how the Tree is also extra-dimensional. However the extra dimensions that Durandal has is from the Sea. Making it supporting evidence to the Sea having equal dimensionality to the Tree. I don’t think it can be used standalone, but as supporting evidence I don’t see the logical problem.

I uh, didn’t use a GGZ feat I don’t know what you are referring to…

To clarify my argument, I am using the
process of elimination. There is a statement that says “that universe has 11 dimensions, 4 real and 7 curled”. Leaf Worlds have only 4 dimensions so this 11 dimension statement cannot be referring to it. Therefore the only reasonable option left is that it’s referring to the Imaginary Tree (as you yourself have already proven that it cannot be referring to the Sea of Quanta).

 

[GarrixianXD]

This is looking from a direct perspective. Which would be a half truth fallacy. While yes 宇宙 means universe and 世界 means world, 宇宙 is often used to portray the Tree while 世界 is often used to portray the leaf worlds. This is further contextualized by how the statement physically cannot be referring to the leaf worlds as the leaf worlds are not 11d.

And you provided no admissible evidences towards your claim.

Just quit m8, this thread is going to be closed and your responses against 12-D IT isn’t going to do jack due to revisions already accepted.

The fact that you’re defying the most basic official translations then giving your own wrong version of translations can be considered manipulating translations right? Don’t make yourself look worse.

 

[inkownn]

Also it's referring to specific bubble worlds and not the actual tree itself.


It's basic reading comprehension when it says stuff about the bubble worlds in specific inheriting dimensions then you have a follow up example of inheritance which should also be another bubble world.

I don’t think that would be possible. Bubble Worlds are literally never referred to as universes in every instance they appear. Not only that, but you could simply interpret it as a reference to higher dimensions. It doesn’t necessarily have to be pulling an example for the bubble universes.

 

[Woomica]

You need to be merged with extra dimensions to walk the Tree, likely referring to how the Tree is also extra-dimensional. However the extra dimensions that Durandal has is from the Sea. Making it supporting evidence to the Sea having equal dimensionality to the Tree. I don’t think it can be used standalone, but as supporting evidence I don’t see the logical problem.

thats the problem,later on the tree gets the transfinite scans,and then when using otto feat of making his img space using his authoirty after he ascends tto the imaginary tree,its called the sign of absolute infinity,whilee the power he got from tree is explicitly stated absolute infinite,and you cant argue it for flowery langauge as there is not any other definition for absolute infinity than this
the tree is definetly superior,and iirc some of scans from hsr and part 2 of hi3 retconned their rivarly

I uh, didn’t use a GGZ feat I don’t know what you are referring to…

To clarify my argument, I am using the
process of elimination. There is a statement that says “that universe has 11 dimensions, 4 real and 7 curled”. Leaf Worlds have only 4 dimensions so this 11 dimension statement cannot be referring to it. Therefore the only reasonable option left is that it’s referring to the Imaginary Tree (as you yourself have already proven that it cannot be referring to the Sea of Quanta).

 

[inkownn]

And you provided no admissible evidences towards your claim.

Just quit m8, this thread is going to be closed and your responses against 12-D IT isn’t going to do jack due to revisions already accepted.

The fact that you’re defying the most basic official translations then giving your own wrong version of translations can be considered manipulating translations right? Don’t make yourself look worse.

You of all people should know that the official translations are really bad(and if you want I can pull evidence) . Also it doesn’t look good on you when you claim my argument is wrong without any evidence for it. In fact this entire message of yours doesn’t prove me wrong in the slightest, it’s just a long way to say “no”.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Also it's referring to specific bubble worlds and not the actual tree itself.


It's basic reading comprehension when it says stuff about the bubble worlds in specific inheriting dimensions then you have a follow up example of inheritance which should also be another bubble world.

To clarify my argument, I am using the
process of elimination. There is a statement that says “that universe has 11 dimensions, 4 real and 7 curled”. Leaf Worlds have only 4 dimensions so this 11 dimension statement cannot be referring to it. Therefore the only reasonable option left is that it’s referring to the Imaginary Tree (as you yourself have already proven that it cannot be referring to the Sea of Quanta).

This argument is ignoring basic context. Specifically refers to bubble worlds only. Inheritance is described as being something the bubble worlds have. It lists an example of inheritance. This means that "that Universe" must be referring to a bubble world.

 

[inkownn]

thats the problem,later on the tree gets the transfinite scans,and then when using otto feat of making his img space using his authoirty after he ascends tto the imaginary tree,its called the sign of absolute infinity,whilee the power he got from tree is explicitly stated absolute infinite,and you cant argue it for flowery langauge as there is not any other definition for absolute infinity than this
the tree is definetly superior,and iirc some of scans from hsr and part 2 of hi3 retconned their rivarly

Oh the transfinite stuff doesn’t refer to the Tree over the Sea. It refers to the Tree over the Leaf. Which is fine, I agree it’s superior over the 4d leaf.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Or am I mistaken? I could've sworn such dimensions weren't valid for higher-dimensional scaling...

They're not. Its why string dimensions don't qualify for Tier 1 ratings, since they're insignificant size wise.