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I say huge, but it’s gonna be a rather simple crt.
Everyone in dragon ball super manga should get type 1 acausality due to the fact that killing a character in the past does not actually affect their timeline, but rather creates a different timeline in which they don’t live.
And this idea is expanded on by even trunks in dbz, that even the SMALLEST changes in the timeline would just create an alternative world.

And this is of course consistent with the fact characters such as zamasu survive even though his past self was erased, with future trunks timeline staying the same despite changing events in the past, and there being multiple copies of people such as zamasu, Zeno, Goku, etc.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Acausality
If this does well I’ll probably do an anime version of this.

EDIT: I’m aware that this is how the verse works, that doesn’t contradict the fact the verse operates under what is described in type 1 acausality, and these characters exist as a part of the dragon ball verse. Besides applying verse equalization, they would still take it into vs battles, as characters would not lose or gain any abilities as a result of being dropped in a neutral verse.
 
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Not sure if that would work seeing as guys like Beerus can forcefully erase someone from the past and kill them in the future. Zamasu had the time ring protecting him
 
Not sure if that would work seeing as guys like Beerus can forcefully erase someone from the past and kill them in the future. Zamasu had the time ring protecting him
I don’t think that either was ever stated, and even if it was it could just be Beerus being dumb, seeing as it contradicts almost all of time travel within the show.
That's not Acausality. That's just how timelines work.
That being how the timelines work doesn’t contradict it being acausality as these characters/this verse works in a way identical to that which is defined in type 1. Unless you guys plan to revise the definition?
 
Because of how the timeline work, leading to the result of acausality, so the reason why time paradox is not happen is because of the cosmology/timeline mechanic, not characters inherent power
These characters exist as a part of this cosmology, therefore this is something they inherently have. Besides as I said in the OP, in a neutral verse they would lose this due to verse equalization.
 
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I don’t think that either was ever stated, and even if it was it could just be Beerus being dumb, seeing as it contradicts almost all of time travel within the show.
It was quite blatantly stated that he affects space-time with any of his actions with him being able to permanently kill black.
 

Darksmash

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Let's look at the definition

Type 1: Time Paradox Immunity: Characters with this type of Acausality are rendered immune to changes in the past and standard temporal paradoxes, but remain just as vulnerable in the present and can be affected by normal Causality Manipulation and similar abilities.

What travelling back in time and creating changes in DB cosmology does is create a new timeline where these changes take affect while not affecting the original timeline. In the original timeline there are no "changes" that would require acausality to resist. Meanwhile in the other timeline where the changes occur they take full effect. So there isn't any acausality here.

While this isn't Acausality, it might be some weird hax of its own for an entire timeline. I am not sure.
 
Let's look at the definition



What travelling back in time and creating changes in DB cosmology does is create a new timeline where these changes take affect while not affecting the original timeline.
Yeah, so they are immune to changes within the past, as a change in the past doesn’t change the history of the timeline these characters are a part of, rather it creates a branch in which these characters work.

Also I don’t think this is some aspect of like the macrocosms or anything, I think is just a fundamental aspect of how the verse works.
In the original timeline there are no "changes"
mhm because again rather than these changes erasing someone from existence, it would only allow for a separate timeline where the events of time travel happened.
So there isn't any acausality here.
What you described in the post is almost exactly what type one is. Original timeline cannot be affected by time travel, the best you can do is create an alternate timeline in which the changes take place, effectively making the verse immune to any attempts at past changes, which is type one.

For example if let’s say the reverse flash ran back in time and killed gohan, our original Gohan would be fine, but a parallel world Gohan would be dead.
 

Darksmash

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Yeah, so they are immune to changes within the past, as a change in the past doesn’t change the history of the timeline these characters are a part of, rather it creates a branch in which these characters work.
That's because the "change" never happened in the original timeline. It split into two timelines. One where the change didn't happen(where the characters are unaffected) and one where the change happens(where they are affected)

mhm because again rather than these changes erasing someone from existence, it would only allow for a separate timeline where the events of time travel happened.
And they would get nuked in the seperate timeline, while the original is unaffected because it didn't face any change in the first place.

What you described in the post is almost exactly what type one is. Original timeline cannot be affected by time travel, the best you can do is create an alternate timeline in which the changes take place, effectively making the verse immune to any attempts at past changes, which is type one.
The original is unaffected because it never faced any "change" in the first place. Acausality requires:
1) change to occur
2) characters to be unaffected by this change

In this scenario even the first step isn't satisfied. Hence there isn't any acausality here. Maybe something like resistance to time travel would be a better ability in this situation
 
That's because the "change" never happened in the original timeline. It split into two timelines. One where the change didn't happen(where the characters are unaffected) and one where the change happens(where they are affected
You already said that and I already addressed that, unless your argument changed in some manor didn't notice, thats just circular.
And they would get nuked in the seperate timeline, while the original is unaffected because it didn't face any change in the first place.
Exactly. Its almost as if the trying to change the past with these characters will not work.
The original is unaffected because it never faced any "change" in the first place.
You, again, already said that within your first reply and I already addressed it, thats just again circular unless you actually refute what I said.
Acausality requires:
1) change to occur
Someone travels to the past timeline and makes a change ✅
2) characters to be unaffected by this change
The characters in the original timeline are unaffected by this change ✅

The only people who experience the results of this change is the other timeline.
In this scenario even the first step isn't satisfied. Hence there isn't any acausality here.
Yeah this is where I think you may be misunderstanding. The change does happen in the original timeline, thats what the time machine does, take you to the desired timeline you are trying to go to right, you do whatever, lets say eat a bagel, and then the change happens in that timeline, resulting in a branching off timeline, just as trunks's teacher explained within the show. However what doesn't happen in the original timeline, is the change being reflected, only in the newly created one are the changes reflected.

In short, time travel -----> change -----> new timeline
as opposed to time travel -----> new timeline --------> change
 
Well, no. It’s quite literally just time traveling and making a change. What db does is more like going to an entirely new universe and killing someone from there. You don’t get a causality from that
Timelines are created by created by these changes, as said by trunks, not by the act of time travel itself. Time travel—-> the change——> new timeline created. And by the diagram shown by the lady teaching kid trunks, we know that time travel takes you to the desired timeline first, not immediately to an alternate timeline.
 

Vietthai96

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Lets make everyone have Acausality 1 lmao
No, like i said before, this is just how timeline work, no character ability in the first place, we don't give ability like that
 
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Timelines are created by created by these changes, as said by trunks, not by the act of time travel itself. Time travel—-> the change——> new timeline created. And by the diagram shown by the lady teaching kid trunks, we know that time travel takes you to the desired timeline first, not immediately to an alternate timeline.
Sort of? If you time travel, you aren't travelling through the same timeline. You're quite literally going to another version of your universe, or another universe. Now, let's say you killed a version of you in that other universe, it would be a little strange for you to die given the nature of the DB multiverse, as the past point in time would likely just be another timeline, meaning nothing happens to you. No acausality happens there cause there's no true paradoxing being done.
 
Lets make everyone have Acausality 1 lmao
No, like i said before, this is just how timeline work, no character ability in the first place, we don't give ability like that
I already replied to that message, see above. Also edited the OP and addressed
Sort of? If you time travel, you aren't travelling through the same timeline.
You are, unless the timeline is specifically set to travel to other timelines, for example future trunks’s timeline. In the diagram we are shown in the show, is blatantly shown that time travel originally moves you through the original timeline.
You're quite literally going to another version of your universe, or another universe.
You aren’t again, time travel moves you back on the timeline you are already on as mentioned shown in multiple diagrams within the show
Now, let's say you killed a version of you in that other universe,
So the rest of your analogy is extremely disanalogous as you are operating under the belief that time travel itself creates new timelines/takes you to other timelines all the time which is not only contradicted within the various scans and screenshots I provided, but not even implied during the entirety of the show. As stated by trunks and this other teacher, timelines are created by the changes themselves. That’s an objective truth. Changes in the original timeline aren’t reflected in the actual timeline, but in a branching off parallel world.

And this isn’t even me like aping out or anything, it’s like consistently shown that changes in the timeline create new timelines, even in the Goku black arc when Beerus erased zamasu, it just created a new timeline. Changes exist before the new timelines, not after.
 

Vietthai96

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Lol, Beerus stated that he use Hakai erase Zamasu will not create a new timeline and affect the entire timeline thus kill Black because Black is Zamasu future, and then Black said in the future that because of the Time Ring whatever happen in the past will not affecr him, if they all have acausality type 1 then Black doesn't need time ring
 
Lol, Beerus stated that he use Hakai erase Zamasu will not create a new timeline and affect the entire timeline thus kill Black because Black is Zamasu future, and then Black said in the future that because of the Time Ring whatever happen in the past will not affecr him, if they all have acausality type 1 then Black doesn't need time ring
1. He was wrong it literally did, plus that would completely contradict everything presented within the narrative of dragon ball, that past events can’t affected future ones making it completely inconsistent 2. Nowhere is it stated he survived because of the time ring 3. Show me where black said that the time ring protects him 4. Black was using the time ring to travel to other timelines 5. Show me the scan where Beerus said Hakai will kill zamasu and not create a new timeline
 
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I say huge, but it’s gonna be a rather simple crt.
Everyone in dragon ball super manga should get type 1 acausality due to the fact that killing a character in the past does not actually affect their timeline, but rather creates a different timeline in which they don’t live.
And this idea is expanded on by even trunks in dbz, that even the SMALLEST changes in the timeline would just create an alternative world.

And this is of course consistent with the fact characters such as zamasu survive even though his past self was erased, with future trunks timeline staying the same despite changing events in the past, and there being multiple copies of people such as zamasu, Zeno, Goku, etc.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Acausality
If this does well I’ll probably do an anime version of this.

EDIT: I’m aware that this is how the verse works, that doesn’t contradict the fact the verse operates under what is described in type 1 acausality, and these characters exist as a part of the dragon ball verse. Besides applying verse equalization, they would still take it into vs battles, as characters would not lose or gain any abilities as a result of being dropped in a neutral verse.
Wouldn’t this only be relevant if the char is from db, and also is fighting in the Db verse? It’s not like it’s an inherent power of the char. It’s a part of the battleground.
 
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You aren’t again, time travel moves you back on the timeline you are already on as mentioned shown in multiple diagrams within the show

Just using your own scan, it doesn't really promote any kind of acausality if they're still affected by changes in the past. Another timeline where they were erased still exists.

And this isn’t even me like aping out or anything, it’s like consistently shown that changes in the timeline create new timelines, even in the Goku black arc when Beerus erased zamasu, it just created a new timeline. Changes exist before the new timelines, not after.
Yes, and that isn't acausality, if the change still affects the targeted character. If I travelled back in time and killed the past version of goku, two timelines would form, one where he no longer exists, and one where he still does. We wouldn't give acausality to the one that still exists simply because of the fact that the other version was erased. That doesn't logically make sense. We even get the statements by Beerus that this has nothing to do with some passive hax that DB characters have, but just the very nature of reality in the verse itself, and a god can bypass that with their own power

 
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actually, let’s say trunks goes back in time and slays kid goku. That would not give adult goku acaus, becos the action didnt happen in his timeline. Obviously, you aren't gonna be affected by some guy getting sliced in another timeline
 
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1. He was wrong it literally did, plus that would completely contradict everything presented within the narrative of dragon ball, that past events can’t affected future ones making it completely inconsistent 2. Nowhere is it stated he survived because of the time ring 3. Show me where black said that the time ring protects him 4. Black was using the time ring to travel to other timelines 5. Show me the scan where Beerus said Hakai will kill zamasu and not create a new timeline
1. He was wrong specifically because of the time ring. No it wouldn't once we take into account that Beerus quite literally states that Gods of destruction aren't like mortals and can bypass the laws of nature to paradox people like that.
2. It quite clearly is. Black outright states this.
3. Black's own statement
4. Yeah, and it protected him from changes in time.
5. That isn't what was said. What was said was that Beerus was fully capable of erasing Zamasu in the present timeline and affecting the future as well, which failed because of the time ring
 
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Trunks can’t travel to the past of adultgokus timeline, so he’s killing Goku B, which would have no reason to affect goku A, regardless of acausality or not
 
Wouldn’t this only be relevant if the char is from db, and also is fighting in the Db verse? It’s not like it’s an inherent power of the char. It’s a part of the battleground.
These characters are a part of this verse, and would inherently have these qualities. Also verse equalization.
Just using your own scan, it doesn't really promote any kind of acausality if they're still affected by changes in the past. Another timeline where they were erased still exists.
Thats what my entire argument is about... the original timeline is unaffected by changes, the only place where the results are reflected is in the parallel timeline. Changes in the past cannot affect a timeline, rather it creates a new one.
Yes, and that isn't acausality, if the change still affects the targeted character.
It doesn't affect the target character. Again, the original timeline is immune from changes to the past and the only place where changes do actually happen is in a completely separate timeline. The change isn't reaching the targeted character, it reaches an alternate version of the character, effectively rendering the original timeline immune.
We wouldn't give acausality to the one that still exists simply because of the fact that the other version was erased. That doesn't logically make sense.
We aren't, we are giving acausality due to the fact that the original timeline was changed, but still retained intact. The only place the change is reflected in is in the alternate, completely separate, timeline.
We even get the statements by Beerus that this has nothing to do with some passive hax that DB characters have
He has NEVER said that, ever. Please show me a scan saying that from the manga, i've literally just reread the arc. The only reason Beerus killed present day Zamasu was because 1. if he lived the goku black arc would happen all over again and goku would get his body stolen, again and 2. because he was literally obligated to.
but just the very nature of reality in the verse itself,
which these characters have by virtue of being a part of this verse and operating under this verse's laws of reality.
and a god can bypass that with their own power
thats neither stated or shown.
i dont think i have to even address this, everyone knows using anime evidence for the manga is a huge no no
1. He was wrong specifically because of the time ring. No it wouldn't once we take into account that Beerus quite literally states that Gods of destruction aren't like mortals and can bypass the laws of nature to paradox people like that.
2. It quite clearly is. Black outright states this.
3. Black's own statement
4. Yeah, and it protected him from changes in time.
5. That isn't what was said. What was said was that Beerus was fully capable of erasing Zamasu in the present timeline and affecting the future as well, which failed because of the time ring
1. Send me the statement where it says the time ring saved goku black from dying. (not to mention this contradicts the evidence i shown, of people who are more reliable source than beerus?) And show me when these gods of destruction are able to temporally erase someone, despite the failing on screen.
2. You keep saying a character says this and that, but then when I ask for evidence, or where its from, you ignore it/refuse? If you aren't going to show any of these statements im just gonna apply hitchens razor and dismiss that
3. hitchens razor
4. hitchens razor
5. hitchens razor

actually, let’s say trunks goes back in time and slays kid goku. That would not give adult goku acaus, becos the action didnt happen in his timeline. Obviously, you aren't gonna be affected by some guy getting sliced in another timeline
Si, it did happen in his timeline. Character X time travels 17 years into the past of his own timeline. He alters this said timeline. As a result, a timeline where the changes are reflected exists, the original timeline remains unaffected by that change.
According to DBZ, you travel to the past of other timeline
Why is everyone saying this? I've already proved in this thread multiple times they travel to their own timeline's past first, and only when a change happens, does it become an alternate timeline.
 
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Thats what my entire argument is about... the original timeline is unaffected by changes, the only place where the results are reflected is in the parallel timeline. Changes in the past cannot affect a timeline, rather it creates a new one.
But the very fact that another timeline where they are affected outright contradicts this entire argument

It doesn't affect the target character. Again, the original timeline is immune from changes to the past and the only place where changes do actually happen is in a completely separate timeline. The change isn't reaching the targeted character, it reaches an alternate version of the character, effectively rendering the original timeline immune.
That isn't how acausality works, especially when characters can bypass this nature like Beerus and Whis, even clarifying that it isn't through some special negation ability.

thats neither stated or shown.
I did show it

i dont think i have to even address this, everyone knows using anime evidence for the manga is a huge no no
Oh, my mistake. i'll try finding the manga panels.

You keep saying a character says this and that, but then when I ask for evidence, or where its from, you ignore it/refuse? If you aren't going to show any of these statements im just gonna apply hitchens razor and dismiss that
When did I ignore it, tho? I'll try finding the scans...TRY. I may not even bother simply because I have more important things to do than start re-reading parts of a shit-manga just for powerscaling sakes.
 

Darksmash

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You already said that and I already addressed that, unless your argument changed in some manor didn't notice, thats just circular.
You didn't really address it though. I am saying that the changes were never enacted onto the original timeline in the first place. When you try to enact change the original one would be unaffected that is it wouldn't see any change. The one that is affected is the newly created timeline.


Exactly. Its almost as if the trying to change the past with these characters will not work.
It doesn't work because there is no change in the original timeline . That's not acausality if the change isn't being enacted in the first place. Which is why I said something like "resistance to time travel" is better in this situation.

You, again, already said that within your first reply and I already addressed it, thats just again circular unless you actually refute what I said.
Your refute:
mhm because again rather than these changes erasing someone from existence, it would only allow for a separate timeline where the events of time travel happened.
My argument: there are no changes in the first place

They are fundamentally on different pages.


Someone travels to the past timeline and makes a change ✅
Change that doesn't appear in the original timeline and only appears in the new one.

The characters in the original timeline are unaffected by this change ✅
Because these changes didn't even take place in their timeline.

The change does happen in the original timeline, thats what the time machine does, take you to the desired timeline you are trying to go to right, you do whatever, lets say eat a bagel, and then the change happens in that timeline, resulting in a branching off timeline, just as trunks's teacher explained within the show. However what doesn't happen in the original timeline, is the change being reflected, only in the newly created one are the changes reflected.
Unless I am forgetting the context it doesn't happen in the original timeline. That's literally the point. The change causes the timelines to split: the first one being completely unaffected by the change of time travel and the other one being fully affected because the changes appear in that one.
 
You didn't really address it though. I am saying that the changes were never enacted onto the original timeline in the first place. When you try to enact change the original one would be unaffected that is it wouldn't see any change. The one that is affected is the newly created timeline.



It doesn't work because there is no change in the original timeline . That's not acausality if the change isn't being enacted in the first place. Which is why I said something like "resistance to time travel" is better in this situation.


Your refute:

My argument: there are no changes in the first place

They are fundamentally on different pages.



Change that doesn't appear in the original timeline and only appears in the new one.


Because these changes didn't even take place in their timeline.


Unless I am forgetting the context it doesn't happen in the original timeline. That's literally the point. The change causes the timelines to split: the first one being completely unaffected by the change of time travel and the other one being fully affected because the changes appear in that one.
I’ll respond to this tommorow, but just skimming you contradicted yourself multiple times, and conceded to my argument on top of that. Its also clear to me you haven’t read the entire thread, which is the reason I’m kinda annoyed because I already proved/gave reasoning for why these changes happened in the original timeline earlier in the thread, and now I’m gonna have to repeat what I said.
 

Darksmash

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but just skimming you contradicted yourself multiple times, and conceded to my argument on top of that.
Would have been more productive to point out the actual issues, rather than these empty claims

Its also clear to me you haven’t read the entire thread, which is the reason I’m kinda annoyed because I already proved/gave reasoning for why these changes happened in the original timeline earlier in the thread, and now I’m gonna have to repeat what I said.
I did skim through it, and I am not sure what you are on about as even your own scans contradict your belief:

IMG_20211208_094410.jpg


As you can see, in the diagram representing the original timeline A's mom is still alive, meaning the change of her dying was never enacted in the first place
 
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I feel the problem here is it's more of mechanism in the verse and it will hardly apply to other verses with different system when we do vs matchup as most of the time they are in neutral grounds as again it's not their ability it's just the timeline doing "no lol" to every change that happens so think of it as more of protection you could say because if they were to be put in neutral battlefield then I don't think the rule will apply
 
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It seems limited acausality type 1 or some other wording would be more appropriate. If Goku went to a different verse without that verse mechanism and fought someone with Flash powers. The Flash like character could only time paradox him from the point he arrived and not when he was a baby.


Also when everyone is talking about Beerus' space time statement but it's not on the profile. That would be a good buff rip.
 
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Darksmash

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No there is no acausality here. Dragon ball timelines are just resistant to change via time travel as changes create a seperate timeline where the change happens. So at best it would be resistance to time travel
 
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Are you even allowed to give people abilities because the universe they live in has it? isnt that like giving me gravity manip because my universe has gravity?
 
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Disagree FRA. The way timelines work in Dragon Ball is that the act of time traveling creates a new timeline where the events gets changed, while the original timeline remains the same. This means that characters don't actually need Acausality Type 1 to remain alive even if their past self die, because the very act of time travel creates an alternate universe with an alternate version of the character

Example: Suppose Cell takes the time machine and time travels into the past to kill Bulma to prevent Trunks from being born (hey that sounds farmiliar). However, the mere act of Cell time-traveling creates a new alternate timeline, so when he kills Bulma, only her version in the alternate timeline is dead, as he doesn't return to the past of the original timeline, thus Trunks is still born in the original timeline as well, since the act of time travel only prevented Trunks from being born in the alternate timeline

Another example would be Goku taking the heart medicine from Trunks to survive the heart virus, but the original Goku is still dead because of the virus, since time traveling caused Trunks to come to the past of an alternate timeline instead of the past of his own timeline, meaning Trunks' actions only saved the alternate timeline's Goku rather than the original Goku in his timeline
 
I did skim through it, and I am not sure what you are on about as even your own scans contradict your belief:

IMG_20211208_094410.jpg


As you can see, in the diagram representing the original timeline A's mom is still alive, meaning the change of her dying was never enacted in the first place
Unironically in the scan right before this, she moves the picture of trunks under the label “past” when describing the time travel, not a completely separate timeline which means, like I said before, before the new timeline is created, time travel happens occurs in the desired timeline

And I did read the scan, and if you actually read the chapter, you would know the change was actually baby bulma being given the bun to eat. Dying was the result of that change, and as shown in the diagram, her dying is only reflected in the alternate timeline. The original timeline remains immune.

And then as stated by trunks and the teacher, changes happen in that timeline, which leads to a new timeline where the change is reflected, however in the original timeline remains unaffected by that alteration.
 
So to sum up the main two refutations
1. The change doesn’t happen in the original timeline, it happens in the alternate timeline

Is not the case, as we see from the diagram that time travel initially takes you to the desired timeline, not an alternate one, unless you purposefully travel to another timeline.
We know the alternate timelines are created by these changes itself, not by time travel, so logically these changes predate the alternate timelines, so where must these changes exist? In the original timeline. However, only the timeline created by this change will experience any affect of the change.

2. This is not an ability the characters have, it’s part of the cosmology.

These characters are aspects of this verse and a part of it. If these characters operate under these principles, taking them into a neutral verse doesn’t take this away due to verse equalization. This is the equivalent to arguing Flash won’t have super speed in vs battles because he only has it because of his cosmology (the speed force). This refutation also doesn’t work.

So yeah if you guys have any other problems with those other than the two I just listed, lmk, this thread is getting a bit circular
 
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I say huge, but it’s gonna be a rather simple crt.
Everyone in dragon ball super manga should get type 1 acausality due to the fact that killing a character in the past does not actually affect their timeline, but rather creates a different timeline in which they don’t live.
And this idea is expanded on by even trunks in dbz, that even the SMALLEST changes in the timeline would just create an alternative world.
Doesn't this mean that everyone in the MCU should have type 1 acausality according to Bruce Banner? Or at least following this logic.
 

Vietthai96

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Now it is time to wrap up this bullshit, time travel create new branch timeline, what does that mean, that mean time travel does not affect causality, it create a new branch of causality, thus nothing acausality here because the verse itself in order to fix causality paradox, it create another causality line not character's power to resist causality paradox or acausality. End of story, now we can probably close this

So now even if we treat this as some form of Limited power, it only effect if you put the fight in Dragon Ball verse, for example you put Goku vs a guy with battlefield is Earth of Universe 7, if Goku opponent time travel back to the past to kill Goki, present Goku will be alive because of the DB verse mechanic protect him, not because Goku resist the paradox himself. But at the same time you guys can also put character who not belong to DB verse in a battlefield of DB, and they still being protected from time travel because of the battlefield mechanic prevent the paradox by creating new timeline

Now Beerus or GoDs, is a very special case, as he negate the entire verse mechanic itself prevent it from creating a new timeline - a new causality line, our wiki right now hardly can list this kind of power lmao
 
Now it is time to wrap up this bullshit, time travel create new branch timeline, what does that mean, that mean time travel does not affect causality, it create a new branch of causality, thus nothing acausality here because the verse itself in order to fix causality paradox, it create another causality line not character's power to resist causality paradox or acausality. End of story, now we can probably close this
Incorrect, as I explained and prove using scans multime times in the thread, time travel itself doesn't create timelines, the changes do.
Furthermore the changes, as I addressed and proved before, exist in the original timeline.

So mainly this first part of the reply is argument from repetition.

So now even if we treat this as some form of Limited power, it only effect if you put the fight in Dragon Ball verse, for example you put Goku vs a guy with battlefield is Earth of Universe 7, if Goku opponent time travel back to the past to kill Goki, present Goku will be alive because of the DB verse mechanic protect him, not because Goku resist the paradox himself. But at the same time you guys can also put character who not belong to DB verse in a battlefield of DB, and they still being protected from time travel because of the battlefield mechanic prevent the paradox by creating new timeline
Again, this is a quality everyone in the verse has by virtue of operating under this concept. Like I also said before, if you drop goku in a neutral verse, this would not be taken away not only for the reason I just listed above, but because of verse equalization. Akin to the way the flash wouldn't lose his speed force powers despite the speed force only being something that dc's cosmology operates under. Literally mentioned in the OP. On top of that already being addressed multiple times by me TO YOU SPECIFICALLY in this thread, so its weird you are repeating this as opposed to addressing what I said.
Now Beerus or GoDs, is a very special case, as he negate the entire verse mechanic itself prevent it from creating a new timeline - a new causality line, our wiki right now hardly can list this kind of power lmao
This was never stated within the manga, thats a blatant lie. Contrary to that, he verbatim says that he knows erasing zamasu will create a new timeline, he just doesn't fucking care lmao.
 
My argument: there are no changes in the first place

They are fundamentally on different pages.



Change that doesn't appear in the original timeline and only appears in the new one.
one.
I already proved that to be the case within the thread, so unless you addressed my reasoning for that, then saying that doesn't really help..
 

Vietthai96

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1. The verse itself create a new causality line when the change happen, it is the verse mechanic itself

2. We don't equalize verse like that, as it give certain character from cetain verse have advantage, as this is special mechanic of one or two verses. And don't bring speed force here, it is still Flash own power that why it was equalize, we don't equalize thing that specific to one or two verses

3. The Beerus part is i'm talking about anime not manga though
 
1. The verse itself create a new causality line when the change happen, it is the verse mechanic itself
argument from repetition
2. We don't equalize verse like that, as it give certain character from cetain verse have advantage, as this is special mechanic of one or two verses. And don't bring speed force here, it is still Flash own power that why it was equalize, we don't equalize thing that specific to one or two verses
It doesn't give him an advantage or anything at all. Under sba, the verse is equalized in a way characters don't gain or lose any new abilities as a result of the neutral verse. And just as flash has powers due to operating under something in his cosmology, so do these characters within dragon ball. And where does it say things exclusive to a singular verse doesn't get equalized?
3. The Beerus part is i'm talking about anime not manga though
This is a manga CRT. hence the manga only scans.
 
He directly draws power form it, and in some cases is the source of it so it’s not the same. Goku just lives there.
He, and everyone in the verse, have speed because of operating under the speed force. Goku and everyone in the verse is acasual because he operates under this principle listed above. its directly analogous.
 

Vietthai96

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Speed force gave Flash direct power, it was their power sources, DB cosmology doesn't give anyone acausality, it just create a new timeline
 
Speed force gave Flash direct power, it was their power sources, DB cosmology doesn't give anyone acausality, it just create a new timeline
he has speed because he and the dc multiverse operates under the speed force. its literally kinetic energy. otherwise the entire verse wouldn't be able to move.
goku has acausality because he operates under this principle in the cosmology. otherwise time travel could affect the original timeline.
 

Vietthai96

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he has speed because he and the dc multiverse operates under the speed force. its literally kinetic energy. otherwise the entire verse wouldn't be able to move.
goku has acausality because he operates under this principle in the cosmology. otherwise time travel could affect the original timeline.
Again what the fuck, Speed Force gave Flash actual power. Dragon Ball cosmology gave nothing to Goku, at this point your argument fail flat on itself and clearly show you own bias nature and misunderstanding of the entire thing, trying to use other verse to give your point credit which fail entirely

At this point this thread should be close
 
Again what the fuck, Speed Force gave Flash actual power. Dragon Ball cosmology gave nothing to Goku, at this point your argument fail flat on itself and clearly show you own bias nature and misunderstanding of the entire thing, trying to use other verse to give your point credit which fail entirely

At this point this thread should be close
so because the speed force amps people and because dragon ball gives an ability, verse equalization doesn't apply? what? i'll just quote sba and we can move on
It is also important to note that characters won't lose or gain any abilities or resistances which they do or do not inherently possess.
and calling me bias and insulting me doesn't defeat my argument, as many people can disagree with it as they want, but unless their reasoning is valid or unaddressed by me, then it doesn't matter.
 
The speed force has actual feats of amping characters, we don’t give abilities to characters for being slaves to their cosmology
the only difference is literally the speed force gives speed whilst this db gives type 1.
and sba quite literally agrees with this idea
It is also important to note that characters won't lose or gain any abilities or resistances which they do or do not inherently possess.
speedsters doesn't lose his speed force powers, db doesn't lose acausality, etc etc.
 
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the only difference is literally the speed force gives speed whilst this db gives type 1.
and sba quite literally agrees with this idea
Actually, the difference is that while the speed force does affect everyone, there’s like, 5 people in the dc universe who actually gain anything from it Besides the ability to move. and don’t tell me movement is an ability. Meanwhile, the db universe nulls changes to timeline, but nobody in the db universe draws power from it. The speed force is a amping tool, while the db universe is a place to live. I don’t get Acausality type 1 if multiverse theory is true in the real world. U can’t give people powers because they are subject To the laws of physics.
 
But we can’t give abilities due to being slaves to the rules of reality. That isn’t an ability
we can and already do? I already listed multiple things from this wiki that directly conflict with your belief.
Actually, the difference is that while the speed force does affect everyone, there’s like, 5 people in the dc universe who actually gain anything from it Besides the ability to move. and don’t tell me movement is an ability.
speedforce grants the ability to movie, all speedsters do is draw more energy from it than regular people. and yes movement is something granted by the speedforce, don't ignore that.

so your main refutations to the analogy are mainly "oh well sf is different because the speed force amps whilst dbs gives an ability" which doesn't make it disanalogous as sba directly tells us that characters don't gain or lose abilities as a result of moving the verse. key word ABILITIES.

and by your logic we should remove all abilities the speed force grants characters except the amp portion of the ability which is really stupid and is NOT how verse equalization works.
 
unless some new argument or something pops up i probably won't be as active in this thread, from here the refutations i already addressed are going to keep repeating
 

Antvasima

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I was asked to close this thread, as it has been rejected by our staff and experienced members.
 
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