How is moving in a void Space-Time Resistance?

[Schnee_One]

Now before you go off, this isn't about infinite speed, just a question.

Looking at Mewtwo's page, he has resistance to space-Time for moving in and using powers in a void.

Question: How is this resistance to Space Time when neither exist in a void and 2, is this an outlier?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You answered your own question. A being who's bound to time and space is capable of willingly being able to travel into a void without it. He shouldn't even be able to exist as he is, let alone move. That's the definitio of that resistance.

Question two, no. Why would it be?

 

[Schnee_One]

Because a finite speed character is moving in a timeless void?

A finite speed character not being infinite in speed, moving in a void is a textbook outlier.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

By that logic, any case of someone who no-sold timestop would be an outlier, from Mega Man to Goku.

 

[Schnee_One]

Because stopped Time and a timeless void are the same thing.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Pretty much, yeah. They are.

 

[Schnee_One]

Well then.

This might need to be copypasted on Tamura vs Mewtwo then

 

[SomebodyData]

Then why doesn't someone like Zeno have a resistance to time-space? Or Goku as a matter of fact?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Same reason he's not acausal for destroying space-time, which would include his own.

Because Zen'ō didn't travel to a void as much as he created one. Yes, we do treat it as a difference. It's why Magolor isn't infinite/immeasurable in speed or doesn't have space or time resistance.

Plus, DBS is really bad when it comes to voids.

 

[Schnee_One]

Seems a bit more could be said here.

Bump.

Plus, if we go by this, anyone who's moved in a void gets space-time resistance, so who does that include?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I dunno, tbh, I've never heard of this before.

 

[SomebodyData]

Where was this decided for Mewtwo? Maybe the thread can tell us.

I can think of a lot actually, including a big portion of the PMMM cast and others, but I still have doubts.

 

[Schnee_One]

This might be the first time we've used this to justify space-time resistance

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

All I know that was accepted was that those with Infinite or higher speed are basically immune to Time Hax unless there are feats present that show a character time haxing an infinite or immeasurable. Like Alphamon, Dialga or Ren.

 

[Schnee_One]

Where was this decided for Mewtwo? Maybe the thread can tell us.
I can think of a lot actually, including a big portion of the PMMM cast and others, but I still have doubts.

I remember Cal told me he had it on my wall, and there were no Pokemon threads at the time involving this.

 

[Schnee_One]

All I know that was accepted was that those with Infinite or higher speed are basically immune to Time Hax unless there are feats present that show a character time haxing an infinite or immeasurable. Like Alphamon, Dialga or Ren.

Problem, someone with finite speed moved in a void, normally we just say "Outlier" and moved on.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

It's evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

 

[Schnee_One]

Right, should've elaborated more.

But have we ever given someone with finite speed space time resistance for moving in a void?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Not that I know of.

 

[Schnee_One]

Perhaps more input is needed.

 

[AguilaR101]

As far as I can tell it just seems arbitrary. if the showing is not good enough to warrant a infinite speed rating then surely it isn't good enough to warrant the resistances associated with said rating.

the only honest way I can see it being considered a resistance to space time manipulation is because you can remove yourself from it as to not get affected by said manipulation, not the same as assuming the character has the innate ability to ignore it.

 

[Schnee_One]

Right.

Definitely need more input for this.

 

[Schnee_One]

Bump

 

[AKM sama]

I agree with Aguila

 

[Imaginym]

I also agree with Aguila.

Besides, IMHO being able to enter or leave a void doesn't seem like you're resisting time/space, or at least, not the manipulation of either or both of them.

I'm not entirely sure about what our Wiki's stance on this -I'd like to think we have a page officially detailing it- but, this is how I'd view it:

You're existing in a void. IMHO, the absence of time is a confusing thing, as it is a "human concept", or, personally attempting to describe what time generally encompasses: The rate at which events occur. Ex: "The clock just now changed to a new hour.", "1 second later, second hand moved 1 notch.", "Years into the future, the world was destroyed."

Things happen within time, whether you travel forwards, backwards, or make a new timeline & travel out the "side" of the time stream. I'm not sure if what I'm saying is or isn't in line with our wiki's stance -if there is an established one- but I'd like to think it makes sense.

If time is treated as something innate to existence, the absence of time seems like, to me.... The absence of any sequence to events which occur, which arguably, includes processes necessary for the function of the universe. Atoms wouldn't move, because the sequence of events that includes them coming to exist & beginning to move never happened. Even if they did exist, they wouldn't be moving, because events cannot progress without "time", if it's something innate to exist.

But this seems redundant without space, because with no space, which presumably, is a part of everything that exists within a... setting, there isn't anything.

With no space, there aren't galaxies, or things containing galaxies, nor stars, nor planets, nor comets, nor the things that make up those, & so on & so forth. As I see it, if a reality exists without space, it arguably doesn't exist at all. At best, it's empty & has borders.

But if it has borders, like a giant empty bubble, then why is this a location that can be gone to, when one travels from another reality? And if it has borders, then aren't those arguably part of this reality? Or outside of the spaceless, timeless existence, do they exist & remain in an unprogressing state? But then, what composes them, if they somehow border a lack of anything whatsoever & themselves, aren't part of another reality?

If something is truly empty, without even space to define its contents, should there even be any distances to travel, in any direction? I suppose, even in real life, there is, supposedly, actually empty space.


I'd say, arguably, if one is thus, able to act inside of a void, it would seem like they are simply able to support themselves. There isn't anything, but them even being there moving assumes there's enough... room to contain them, & enough room to move.

Do the laws of physics apply in a place with no sources of gravity, movement, energy/heat, & so on & so forth?

If you move inside a void, it would seem like you are facilitating the functioning of yourself in a reality without such things. You are able to make the atoms that compose you move, &/or make them keep moving.

But if there isn't time, then the events you cause, in order to move your atoms do not have a sequence to progress, & presumably, would not occur.

But if there is no time to define the sequence of what occurs, then shouldn't that mean that nothing defines their sequence except what is able? Therefore, if you can move your atoms, nothing stops you from doing so, & hence, an absence of time is irrelevant to you.

Or is time something innate to things from realities that have time that carries over with them into a void?


Thus, a question comes up: If a void is the absence of space & time, where, presumably, the laws of physics do not apply or occur, because they do not exist, then isn't being there & acting at all different from a resistance to manipulation of them?

You are facilitating yourself & things you can do by being inside of & acting within a void.

Of course, this presumes that you facilitate the functioning of things you brought in with you, which didn't exist before in a void. Like a rock. Or your clothes. Or your weapons. Or your ship.

However, it's not like there are any laws of physics, in a void, right? No gravity, no entropy, no heat, nor energy.

You might freeze to death &/or suffocate from a lack of air, among other horrible events. Maybe your molecules might cease to be bonded. But other than that, what's literally STOPPING your function? There isn't any matter, I don't know if there's laws of physics, & does an absence of a sequence for events to occur in prevent them from being performed?

If you're in a void, that just seems like you can function without the need for physics holding you together, so that you can act, creating a sequence of order for events.

In the absence of space & time, there is no space & time to manipulate, nor being manipulated. So should being able to act in a void really mean you resist the manipulation of them?

Heck, arguably it could just be chalked up to writers ignoring physics, especially ones that may not be well understood -not to say I'm a physics expert.- or maybe just not properly understanding physics to begin with.

Sorry for all the words. On the topic of Mewtwo, how many times HAS it moved in a void?

 

[Schnee_One]

Only once in guardian signs

 

[Schnee_One]

Should this be moved to a CRT or stay here?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

All I know that was accepted was that those with Infinite or higher speed are basically immune to Time Hax unless there are feats present that show a character time haxing an infinite or immeasurable. Like Alphamon, Dialga or Ren.

This. A time stop won't work on someone with Infinite speed unless they have feats shown it. 3D timehax will also not work on an Immeasurable because they are beyond that level of time

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I also think that Imaginyn is grossly overthinking this,though I currently am using my phone and can't type a lengthy respon to him.

 

[Schnee_One]

I agree with that, wholeheartedly.

But as for a character with finite speed moving in a void.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Matt uh we're talking about a character with finite speed tho

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I personally consider it a break from logic taken for the sake of the story, like when characters in Time Travel movies don't get instantly erased when they change the past, but instead gradually fade away.

I dunno how Mewtwo's feat is. It could be legit, if Cal were to explain it in depth.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Quick summary:

Mewtwo nukes some guys, and makes it look like he killed 'me. Turns out it was a void bomb that teleported them there, and Mewtwo later went back to the void to retrieve them.

 

[SomebodyData]

Ah, and so they should have not been able to do anything in the void right? Like no memories of it or anything?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The guy (Rand) described it as hopeless and endless amounts of nothingness and darkness until Mewtwo tp'd them back.

 

[SomebodyData]

Well RIP Cal, it's not even a real void, they shouldn't even be able to think much less describe it.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Okay, so it does seem that Mewtwo did more than your typical character when dealing with a void.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Being put in a void not on your own volition doesn't qualify for anything. Azzy said this a long time ago when I tried to upgrade Magolor's speed.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Well RIP Cal, it's not even a real void, they shouldn't even be able to think much less describe it.

The Dark Area, Distortion World, and Darkness Beyond Time say hi ovo

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Well RIP Cal, it's not even a real void, they shouldn't even be able to think much less describe it.

The Dark Area, Distortion World, and Darkness Beyond Time say hi ovo

Please don't bring up the Distortion World Again....