How far into low 2-C is DBS?

[Iisdude1]

We have to use zamasu as a cap because if not he would be infinitely above jiren which makes literally no sense.

 

[PFM18]

Nobody said that makes them Multiversal. . it doesn't matter if they themselves can't become 4d they still have that power for being obviously stronger. zamasu fused with u7 space time, jiren is stronger Than him. They don't have to be able fuse with the universe to be 4d they just have to have the power to do it.

again, this still comes down to a comparison of ki from jiren to infinite zamasu, but his ki has nothing to do with becoming the universe; so the comparison has no actual weight. This "fusion" is simply a function of his immortality.

 

[PFM18]

We have to use zamasu as a cap because if not he would be infinitely above jiren which makes literally no sense.

huh?

 

[Iisdude1]

His ki would be 4d since it is tied to his existence.

 

[Iisdude1]

I meant using zamasu to make jiren low 2-C

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

You could argue that bonding with a timeline would, itself, involve 4d levels of power.

 

[Iisdude1]

That's my point.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

You explained it poorly.

 

[Iisdude1]

His ki would be 4d since it is tied to his existence.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

"Can tie itself to existence" would be in line with what I was trying to argue.

 

[PFM18]

His ki would be 4d since it is tied to his existence.

So then his ki received a massive increase upon merging with existence?

 

[Dragomer]

By the standard of this site, his everything received a massive increase due to his new nature.

 

[PFM18]

By the standard of this site, his everything received a massive increase due to his new nature.

Okay, that's not how ki works. You're using his ki as a frame of reference, for this argument to work, his ki must have received a colossal increase upon merging with the universe, which is not indicated in any way whatsoever in the story.

 

[Iisdude1]

If zamasu were to absorb the multiverse he would become stronger obviously, it's the nature of his existence. Zamasu attacks with 4D power, the same has to be said for jiren.

 

[Dragomer]

By the standard of this site, his everything received a massive increase due to his new nature.

Okay, that's not how ki works. You're using his ki as a frame of reference, for this argument to work, his ki must have received a colossal increase upon merging with the universe, which is not indicated in any way whatsoever in the story.

Doesn't matter, no one ever said 'Jiren has a superior ki !', they said he was the strongest, it doesn't matter what you consider as the source of Zamasu's power, only the fact he is weaker matter.

Also you realise the universe is litteraly full of ki, even the sun, right ?

 

[PFM18]

Okay, that's not how ki works. You're using his ki as a frame of reference, for this argument to work, his ki must have received a colossal increase upon merging with the universe, which is not indicated in any way whatsoever in the story.
Doesn't matter, no one ever said 'Jiren has a superior ki !', they said he was the strongest, it doesn't matter what you consider as the source of Zamasu's power, only the fact he is weaker matter.

Also you realise the universe is litteraly full of ki, even the sun, right ?

Ki is always the reference for anything in this series. "Power" and "ki" are essentially interchangeable terms. How the hell could a comparison possibly be made in this context without ki being used as a reference?

It isnt. Otherwise Goku would be able to sense the sun for instantaneous movement. Not that he ever would, but there's no evidence that entities like the Sun have ki. Genki is a separate issue, and if you're going tongo down that route then Goku should be able to use literally anybody's genki to teleport.

 

[Iisdude1]

They didn't point out it was ki, they just said Jiren was the strongest foe in history , this includes every single threat that has appeared including infinite zamasu.im not talking about ki, becoming 4D = 4D power, infinite zamasu< jiren is the strongest foe meaning jiren has 4D power.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

There were different power levels prior to Ki's introduction, this is just its triumphant return.

 

[Dragomer]

Okay, that's not how ki works. You're using his ki as a frame of reference, for this argument to work, his ki must have received a colossal increase upon merging with the universe, which is not indicated in any way whatsoever in the story.

Doesn't matter, no one ever said 'Jiren has a superior ki !', they said he was the strongest, it doesn't matter what you consider as the source of Zamasu's power, only the fact he is weaker matter.
Also you realise the universe is litteraly full of ki, even the sun, right ?

Ki is always the reference for anything in this series. "Power" and "ki" are essentially interchangeable terms. How the hell could a comparison possibly be made in this context without ki being used as a reference?
It isnt. Otherwise Goku would be able to sense the sun for instantaneous movement. Not that he ever would, but there's no evidence that entities like the Sun have ki. Genki is a separate issue, and if you're going tongo down that route then Goku should be able to use literally anybody's genki to teleport.

Doesn't matter, that's not an argument in your favor at all.

Yes, it is and nothing ever said Goku couldn't sense the sun, the opposite statement was even made as Goku ask for it's energy for the spirit bomb.

No, Genki isn't seperated at all, that Ki and Genki aren't the same thing is just fanmade bulshit and as you said, in this serie 'ki' and 'power' are the same thing and what does Goku ask of the sun and the planets ? their power, why are you changing your tune in a single comment ?

Goku can use anybody to teleport, that's a proven fact.

 

[Badrimoine2019]

They didn't point out it was ki, they just said Jiren was the strongest foe in history , this includes every single threat that has appeared including infinite zamasu.im not talking about ki, becoming 4D = 4D power, infinite zamasu< jiren is the strongest foe meaning jiren has 4D power.

infinite Zamasu begin 4D was only due to hax and abilityes or due to his soul but not in power, Infinit Zamasu in power is 3-A or low 2-C and since jiren is stronger than him than jiren is also low 2-C but stronger than Infinit Zamasu that's all, nothing change full power jiren and MUI goku would still be only low 2-C (universal +) not 2-C

 

[Iisdude1]

His existence was still becoming the universe and its space time, you DO need 4D power to accomplish it, if infinite zamasu was only 3-A he would have only become one with the physical contents of the universe.

 

[Badrimoine2019]

His existence was still becoming the universe and its space time, you DO need 4D power to accomplish it, if infinite zamasu was only 3-A he would have only become one with the physical contents of the universe.

hhhhh like I've saied zamsu fused with the space and time of the multiverse only due to his soul/hax and abilityes not in power there is a planetry of characters who are able to affect or destroy time lines and dimensions only due to hax and abilityes not even in power

 

[Iisdude1]

It's not sol hax lol. His souls was becoming the universe. Those characters that use spatial aren't always affecting the entire space time continuum. Characters that destroy timelines via hax are low 2-C just not always physically, and dimensions vary in size.

 

[Iisdude1]

But zamasu was literally becoming the entire thing. He was stared to become one with the universe and was affecting the present, that's why he is low 2-C.

 

[Badrimoine2019]

«"Those characters that use spatial aren't always affecting the entire space time"» Okey and? Some of them can lol, what zamsu did was clearly a hax, and infinit Zamasu with his Hax is 2-C (Low multiversal) since he fused with the entire DB verse time line which is a 2-C verse and in power he is low 2-C (Universal +) and since a surpressed jiren is stronger than Infinit Zamasu than jiren is also low 2-C it simple as that

 

[Iisdude1]

Some can and some can't. It wasn't really hax, it was zamasu himself doing the merging. It's only hax because of higher dimensional it's. He would have only become 2-C eventually, normally he's just universe+. scales just to the low 2-C because. It's bend dub United to hell and back that a single dB timeline is 2-C.

 

[Badrimoine2019]

Some can and some can't. It wasn't really hax, it was zamasu himself doing the merging. It's only hax because of higher dimensional it's. He would have only become 2-C eventually, normally he's just universe+. scales just to the low 2-C because. It's bend dub United to hell and back that a single dB timeline is 2-C.

okey infinit zamsu is low 2-C (universal +) and jiren is stronger than him so he is universal + nothing would change, there is no a valid reason to upgrade UI goku and jiren to 2-C

 

[Iisdude1]

Actually gods are half 2-C now due to Beerus and Champa destroying two universes by clashing. Though I'm still not sure you can be half the power to cross a 5d axis.

 

[Badrimoine2019]

WHAT THE HELL, HELL NO à fight between 2 gods of destruction can destroy 2 universes (which its a low 2-C feat not 2-C) so à god of destruction alone is universal + only

 

[Iisdude1]

Multiverses are structured on a 5 dimensional axis They are half baseline 2-C which is two universes, and in order to destroy two you have to affect and destroy both at the same time. And in order to do that you have to cross the 5D boundary the univeres exist on, Which means crossing a 5D axis. Beerus and champs were using pure power to do this.

 

[Badrimoine2019]

Destroying 2 universes in dragon ball is only low 2-C ƒÿæ not 2-C, and the entire DB verse is 2-C (a verse that contains 18 universes) so 2 universes in dragon ball is still only low 2-C

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Destroying 2 universes in dragon ball is only low 2-C ƒÿæ not 2-C, and the entire DB verse is 2-C (a verse that contains 18 universes) so 2 universes in dragon ball is still only low 2-C

What?

 

[Iisdude1]

The universes are represented by their own bubble, shown when Whis shows goku the map of the multiverse, so yes destroying them is 2-C.

Low 2-C | Universe level+: Characters who are capable of significantly affecting, creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely sized 3-dimensional expanse.

2-C | Low Multiverse level: Characters who can create and/or destroy small multiverses which can be comprised of a number of isolated space-time continua ranging anywhere from two to a thousand, or equivalents.

 

[Badrimoine2019]

The universes are represented by their own bubble, shown when Whis shows goku the map of the multiverse, so yes destroying them is 2-C.

Low 2-C | Universe level+: Characters who are capable of significantly affecting, creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely sized 3-dimensional expanse.

2-C | Low Multiverse level: Characters who can create and/or destroy small multiverses which can be comprised of a number of isolated space-time continua ranging anywhere from two to a thousand, or equivalents.

hmmm that's true, I think I should do some research about this,but still a single god of destruction is universal + also saying that a god of destruction is 50% low multiversal its like you are saying that beerus =50% zeno power since zeno is also at least low multiversal

 

[AwkguyDB]

The universes are represented by their own bubble, shown when Whis shows goku the map of the multiverse, so yes destroying them is 2-C.

Low 2-C | Universe level+: Characters who are capable of significantly affecting, creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely sized 3-dimensional expanse.

2-C | Low Multiverse level: Characters who can create and/or destroy small multiverses which can be comprised of a number of isolated space-time continua ranging anywhere from two to a thousand, or equivalents.

hmmm that's true, I think I should do some research about this,but still a single god of destruction is universal + also saying that a god of destruction is 50% low multiversal its like you are saying that beerus =50% zeno power since zeno is also at least low multiversal

Zeno is stated to be able to wipe 12 in one go

12>2

 

[Iisdude1]

Being one universe superior to a 2-C is not infinite, since the 5D axis has already been crossed one extra space time is not much to a 2-C. It's sort of like a huge solar system with hundreds of planets, you can only destroy two at the moment and in order to destroy more planets you have to increase your power and range, but it doesn't have to be an infinite increase in power.

 

[PridedWaif]

Lol at people saying there isn't any promo material outside of the Beerus/UI promo statements.

It's actually like 3 promo guides for Jiren > All Gods at his strongest which was then supported by episode 130 and 131. Not to mention the arm wrestle probably wasn't about Vermoud, but rather assumed it was about Quitela, and that mortal was even stronger than him. The original lines never stated explicitly that it was his god. It was open to 3 different interpretations. Seeing as even in the Toei profiles, it asserts it. The statement is just open and loose by whis, but he does reaffirm the rumor to be true, which was that there is a mortal whose power does rival or is above that of the GoDs.

Also, in manga Vermoud didn't do any damage to Quitela with his attack if you go back and read that chapter he was the only Hakaishin not damaged by Vermoud's attack.

Also, Gogeta blue used his full power against Broly. Hence the full power kamehameha to end it after Broly had gotten stronger and had built up Ki that was compacted within him that Gogeta detonated. Honestly, they all should be above Beerus, but seeing as how much toriyama loves his cat. He'll probably be able to tango due to experience over hundreds of millions of years and some plot boost saying he been training or something.

2-C= Blue Gogeta, LB Jiren, UI Goku, with Broly FPSSJ Possibly.

 

[Omegas03]

^Mind giving the scans?

Anyways I made a CRT/question about the 2-C scaling and the range upgrade for anyone above UIO1 Goku.

 

[PridedWaif]

I do have them, doesn't allow me from my phone for some reason. If someone can tell me how, that'd be good if you can do so.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Lol at people saying there isn't any promo material outside of the Beerus/UI promo statements.
It's actually like 3 promo guides for Jiren > All Gods at his strongest which was then supported by episode 130 and 131. Not to mention the arm wrestle probably wasn't about Vermoud, but rather assumed it was about Quitela, and that mortal was even stronger than him. The original lines never stated explicitly that it was his god. It was open to 3 different interpretations. Seeing as even in the Toei profiles, it asserts it. The statement is just open and loose by whis, but he does reaffirm the rumor to be true, which was that there is a mortal whose power does rival or is above that of the GoDs.

Also, in manga Vermoud didn't do any damage to Quitela with his attack if you go back and read that chapter he was the only Hakaishin not damaged by Vermoud's attack.

Also, Gogeta blue used his full power against Broly. Hence the full power kamehameha to end it after Broly had gotten stronger and had built up Ki that was compacted within him that Gogeta detonated. Honestly, they all should be above Beerus, but seeing as how much toriyama loves his cat. He'll probably be able to tango due to experience over hundreds of millions of years and some plot boost saying he been training or something.

2-C= Blue Gogeta, LB Jiren, UI Goku, with Broly FPSSJ Possibly.

This ain't who I think it is ................creator of one of my favorite power scaling videos to date.

you that PridedWaif?