How does this mind manip compare to other mind manip?

[Agnaa]

I usually see Mind Manipulation compared by how many people it effects, but SCP-3043's mind manip seems weird to compare in this way.

It doesn't use any psionic energy, require any active mental focus, have any defined AoE, or any defined constraint to the number of people affected. This isn't to say that how it functions is unknown, it's perfectly understood, but I'm not sure how to compare it to other types.

3043's mind manipulation comes from it being able to rewrite the stories inside people's minds. Once someone learns about 3043, that makes 3043 part of their "mental story", and allows 3043 to rewrite their minds, not requiring active effort after their mind's been rewritten.

Back to the question in the title, how would something like this be compared to more conventional mind manip, for the purpose of resistances and the like?

 

[Lancer45Man]

So like if someone learns about 3043, it'd make it as if the person knows about 3043 for a long time and by doing so it can rewrite their minds because it's been part of their lives as per the person???

 

[Agnaa]

By "that makes 3043 part of their mental story" I mean that, 3043 can only rewrite stories that it is a part of, and so by learning about 3043 that mind is now open to being altered by 3043, in whichever way it wills.

 

[Lancer45Man]

Hmmm seems like a form of Plot Manipulation IMO

I'd say being Acausal or having resistance to plain mind control might work against it but not sure

 

[Agnaa]

Sure but Plot Manip is essentially Reality Warping, and here it's being applied as Mind Manip.

But the thing is, resistance to mind manip is usually compared by the potency of the mind manip. i.e. If you resist mind manip from someone who's mind manipped 2 people at one time, you still won't resist mind manip from someone who's mind manipped 50 people at one time. But I'm having some hesitation placing 3043 into this sort of system; 3043 doesn't use any kind of psionic/electrical energy, focus, nor does 3043 have any constrained AoE for its ability, so where should it fit into this scale?

 

[Endless_Astrograph_Sorcerer]

To me, that sounds like mindhax+unconventional possession, I'd think characters with feats resisting both would likely be unaffected

 

[Agnaa]

From what I've heard in other threads that's not how mindhax resistance works here. If you resist mindhax from someone who's only used it on two people at a time, you'll automatically get mindhaxed by someone who's affected 50 people at one time, none of which had mind manip resistance.

I'm questioning how 3043 would fit into this numbers scale.

 

[Endless_Astrograph_Sorcerer]

If that's the consensus as to how mindhax should be evaluated in terms of potency, then I strongly disagree with it. That standard rigidly ignores almost all other properties of the ability that any given character might have.

 

[Lancer45Man]

Plot Manipulation isn't always Reality Warping tho

Plot Manipulation can have a wide variety of Abilities under itself which makes it very versatile as top tiers can essentially do whatever they want via plot manip.

 

[Agnaa]

That's the consensus that was argued here, citing this thread for where it was accepted.

I mean, Reality Warping can have a variety of abilities under itself which makes it versatile, and lets people do whatever they want. Sure they're not exactly the same, but the plot manip page makes the comparison.

 

[Lancer45Man]

Well from what I understand is that 3043 infects the mind of the person and controls their mind as if it was a plot. So like (Plot Manipulation + Mind Manipulation) imo

 

[Agnaa]

I'm not so interested in what the ability is (I've already got plot manip + mind manip on the profile), but how to compare its potency to other mind manip.

 

[Lancer45Man]

Might as well add Memory Manipulation because it can prolly rewrite memories too

It's pretty potent imo but likely works in a similar manner as normal mind Hax. I think someone with a good enough resistance to both memory and mind manip can stop it.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Agnaa]

Buuump.

 

[Agnaa]

Another bump.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump again.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

If I'm honest, it feels more like memory manip specifically more than anything else. Pretty potent too

 

[Agnaa]

It does involve memory manip, but it also allowed the typewriter to mind control people.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Didn't i t simly change their memories to make them do that? I mean, it is mind manip, just done through memory manipulation.

 

[Agnaa]

He actively was mind manipping a researcher to have her shoot SCP-3143.

But still, even if we say it's mind manip through memory manip, is mind manip resistance treated differently to memory manip resistance? In that it's tiered based on how many people it can affect at once?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

There was a discussion, and it was decided that manipulation of memory, emozions and some forms of perception manipulation can be resisted with mind manip resistance.

It mostly depends if its biological or just a metaphysical mind unrelated to the brain.

 

[Agnaa]

So then we'd still need to address what level of mind manip resistance would be needed to overcome this.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Well, the amount only isn't the only factor in resistance.

For exemple, babidi from dragon ball can affect multiple people, but he doesn't brainwash them per-se, just amplify what is already there.

Stuff like this tends to be case by case because dominating the mind of someone completly is quiet a bit more impressive then making a dozen of people hallucinate.

 

[Agnaa]

I guess so, but would it be ranked similarly to something that does the same manip but requires active focus or some psionic energy to perform?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

As far as I understand, yes. I'm not the biggest expert, but it is more the effect then the metod.

 

[Agnaa]

Even with methods that don't use energy, AoE, or focus? Wow.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I do have my disagreements, yes, but I don't think there is a proper way to tell their potency otherwise unless it scales above something that does have aoe.

 

[Agnaa]

Nope, but it does provide the basis for the resistances of at least one, possibly three other characters.