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About Mind Manipulation

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YungManzi

YungManzi

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So in This thread, we came across an issue which has been brought up in many different battles involving mind manipulation.

The issue is, How Do We Rank/Tier Mind Manipulation?

In the link above, we have two characters battling. One has resistance to mind manipulation via PMMM's Witch's Kiss which has been shown to effect many bystanders at once and lead entire groups of people to commit suicide.

The other character has mind manipulation which can be used to control their oppenents 5 senses along with their sense of energy and their sense of time. This character has also been shown to bypass very strong resistance to mind manipulation on multiple occasions by using stronger mind manipulation; however, this character cannot use their strongest mind manipulation on more than one person at a time.

A good question to start with is this: For a Franchise Such as Naruto Who Has a Hierarchial System When it Comes to Mind Manipulation/Illusion Creation How Do We Compare It to Other Verses?

I don't believe we can use how many people it affects, because there are quiet a few examples of genjutsu which are far less potent than other genjutsu such as Tsukuyomi, but can affect many people at one time (Kabuto and Oboro). Even Genjutsu from someone such as Obito Uchiha (Someone who is below Itachi in Genjutsu) could control a Kage level ninja for years turning the victim into a completly different person.

I've been cooking this up for a while, hope it goes smooth and stirs discussion.
 
I stand by what I said.

Mind haxing someone with resistance means that your mind hax is > their resistance.

If the guy can take mind hax that affects 10000 people, he would still be mind haxed by someone who can mind hax a trillion.

Saying that overpowering someone's resistance is more impressive than overpowering a much stronger mind hax is the equivalent of saying that said resistance was immunity (because it doesn't matter how potent the mind hax is, following that line of reasoning)

Which is a NLF, because immunity is a NLF except specific cases like immunity to soul manipulation for soulless beings
 
@Yung

Not quite. Think about subduing someone via mind manipulation like overpowering them.

If you can overpower a trillion of people at once, you would be stronger compared to someone who can do the same with a hundred of people.

So, you would be able to overpower the guy who overpowered 100 others.
 
I'd think someone who is mentally haxxing a bunch of people is kind of dividing their full potential into a bunch of minds at once, so I'd assume = Haxxed trillions, will have mindhax on the caliber of one personxtrillions when focused in a single individual.

Just another reason as for why it makes sense that the higher the numbers, the stronger the hax would be.
 
Ok,here we have a guy who mind haxed 100 people with 0 resistance to mind manipulation and we also have a guy that mind haxed 5 guys with strong resistance(or mid).

How do you know that 1st guy's mind hax is stronger than the second ones if he never haxed someone with resistance to it?
 
@Dzh Usually at this point people compare by debating in threads.

Myself, I'd say it depends on the scale and resistance feats of the 5 guys who got haxxed and the one who did the hax.
 
Dzhindzholia said:
Ok,here we have a guy who mind haxed 100 people with 0 resistance to mind manipulation and we also have a guy that mind haxed 5 guys with strong resistance(or mid).

How do you know that 1st guy's mind hax is stronger than the second ones if he never haxed someone with resistance to it?
Click to expand...
Depends on how potent the five guys resistance is. If they ever shrugs off a mind manip that works on 100 people at once, they yeah the second guy mind manip is stronger.

But if they didn't, the first guy is stronger.
 
@Dzhin

It all comes down to the best mind hax that the other guys resisted. If they resisted mind hax that affect, say, 30 people, 30x5=150 > 100.

If they resisted mind hax that affects two people, that's weaker than haxing 100 people.

Comparing it to AP, only because Saiyan Saga Goku never one shot a 7-C doesn't mean that he can't do it, because his feats say that he obviously can
 
@Kal

I don't think it can be looked at like that.

If one character has mind manipulation which can effect thousands of people, but can only make them fall in love with him, yet another charcter can control every aspect of a single person's mind.

Can resisting the first mind hax equate to resisting the second?

Edit: Mind Manipulation doesn't really work like AP because it's hax and subjective to the media which is portraying it.
 
@Homu

"Depends on how potent the five guys resistance is. If they ever shrugs off a mind manip that works on 100 people at once they yeah the second guy mind manip is stronger"

No,they have never shown to resist mind manipulation that affects 100 people(simple people without superpowers or resistance to mind manip),but they were able to easily resist for example mid lvl mind manipulation from a guy that can affect only 5 people,the fact that he affected only 5 people doesnt make his mind hax weaker,he was able to affect someone with resistance to it and thats why his mind hax should be rated higher.I want to say that quality>quantity.
 
The former is more emphatic manipulation.

In cases like those where one is stronger but another is more versatile it's a bit case by case, but in general potency beats proficiency.

Think about it this way. You have two swordsman, A is immensely more proficient than the other, but B is so strong that he can't be harmed, A can't block because he'd be one shot if he tries, and they fight to the death.

Who is more likely to win?
 
@Kal

Only, does mind haxing more people= higher potency or more range?

In terms of hax doesn't proficiency = more potency? This is the case for pretty much any hax.
 
Both.

And Mindhaxing someone with resistance to 100 people means you need to Mind Hax 200 to bypass a resistance like that, so I can't see how it's impressive
 
Mind haxing more people is both range and potency.

Proficiency is different from potency. I know quite a few characters who are more proficient than Methuselah with mind manipulation, but that doesn't mean that resisting mind hax from them means that you would resist it from Meth
 
It depends on the degree of Mind Hax, for example Mind hax of the Shaka level that destroys the senses will be very difficult to reside from the Mind Control resistant person.
 
@Dzhin

Again, it is depends on the resistance itself. I have resistance to mind manip that works on 100 at once, but I cannot say I can shrugs of a mind Manip that works on 10 Trillions of people from across the universe since I have never faced something like that before (even to said mind manip works on normal human). That would enter the NLF territory right there.
 
@Kal

So what about situations where we have genjutsu like infinite Tsukuyomi which can place the entire world under genjutsu not working against edo tensei, but Koto can effect edo tensei?
 
YungManzi said:
@Kal

So what about situations where we have genjutsu like infinite Tsukuyomi which can place the entire world under genjutsu not working against edo tensei, but Koto can effect edo tensei?
Click to expand...
Then Koto is stronger
 
YungManzi said:
@Kal

So what about situations where we have genjutsu like infinite Tsukuyomi which can place the entire world under genjutsu not working against edo tensei, but Koto can effect edo tensei?
Click to expand...
It means that Koto's mind hax > Infinite Tsukuyomi
 
YungManzi said:
@Kal

So what about situations where we have genjutsu like infinite Tsukuyomi which can place the entire world under genjutsu not working against edo tensei, but Koto can effect edo tensei?
Click to expand...
Don't you mean Izanami? Also, isn't the reason why edo tensei were not affected by IT was because the fact they were basically a walking zombie?
 
By that type of scaling Sasuke should be able resist any mind hax that is weaker than Infinity Tsukuyomi only because it mind haxed every human on the planet.
 
I mean, if he resisted planetary mind hax, he can resist mind hax below planetary
 
immunity is NLF with telepathy for example Emma Frost is immune to all telepathy in Diamond form, but Jean, who is stronger defeated her easily.
 
IT is regarded as the "Ultimate Genjutsu" in Narutoverse, but it somehow cannot affect Edo-tensei. If Koto and Izanami, which should be regarded as the weaker Genjutsu than IT, can affects them. Then it could be:

1) The mechanic of the jutsu is different.

2 ) Again, the inconsistency on Naruto part.
 
Quick question, if you have to apply your mindscrew to an individual person but still manage to completely control all 10,000 people that you've mind screwed and still keep your influence on all of them, is that a mindscrew of 10,000 people?
 
@Gar

If you can control all of them at once, yes.

If you can influence only a portion or something no
 
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