How does Fire Manipulation work?

[DragonEmperor23]

So, I'm confused on how fire manipulation is treated on this wiki. There's a few things that I've heard that conflict each other and I just wanted it to be cleared up.

So, I heard that stuff like being in the sun can be ignored by being tier 8. So, that line of thinking is that you can have a certain amount of durability and then the fire/it's heat wouldn't really hurt you.

But then I also heard that the degrees are what matters, not the tier of the character. In the example I made as question and was explained to me, if a 5-B that could hurt other 5-B's with their fire tried using it on a 7-B character with resistance to fire of a certain number of degrees, then the fire wouldn't work on that 7-B. So this line of thinking implies that the strength of the characters that the fire has been shown to burn doesn't matter, it's based on how hot the fire is individually and if it's not said to be a certain amount of degrees then it is just considered a normal fire.

The third thing I heard was that being able to burn 5-Bs would mean your fire is higher than 5-B as the temperature required to burn someone with that level of durability would be higher into the tier system than 5-B. So this line of thinking says that the strength of the character does matter and being able to burn other characters on your level means your fire is insanely hot.

The first and the third ones are pretty similar but the second one is completely different. I've heard it both ways multiple times and I wasn't sure which one was right.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Bump.

 

[Antoniofer]

As several types of power in the wiki, people generally do not pay attention to its properties and rather consider most attacks to be the same, for example, electricity for a 9-A character is the same as fire from a 9-A character.

Everything change when the attack itself has a measure, like an electric attack is stated to have X amounts of volts, or fire/ice has temperature values.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

So when the attack is being given measurements, then does that mean it's naturally superior to those without numbers despite them being from higher tiers?

 

[Antoniofer]

In higher tiers (or any tier in general) is just considered a fire attack, like any other one except that it contains fire properties (it do not accounts for temperature). If a 7-C character attacks another one with fire then its just considered a 7-C attack (at least that is how the rasoning in the wiki goes).

However, if a character makes a fire attack with a temperature of 5000 K then its use an universal measure, if it affect someone with supposely 5-B durability, anyone that can produce equal or higher amounts of heat is capable to damage the 5-B character, independently of the tier of the character with fire manipulation.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

What if a character uses fire and that fire isn't stated to have a certain amount of degrees but it does have feats of vaporizing/melting things that would result in a high temperature? For example, vaporizing sand similar to how fulgurite is formed.

 

[Antoniofer]

Then it works to give it a temperature of at least the fusion point of the material melted (only apply for duing by raw heat, matter manipulation do not counts). However, independently of the amount of material it melted, lets say titanium, its fire manipulation will always have at least 1940 K, so someone that have survived in sun's surface wouldn't be affected by said attack, independently of the tiers.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

I see. So someone like a generic 5-B with no notable heat resistance feats would be burned by an attack from someone with fire that hot even if they were a lower tier, right?

 

[Antoniofer]

Neh, the generic rules of here wouldn't allow it, but since elevated temperatures ignore durability (similar way absolute zero does it), is factible. If a 5-B character is damaged by generic fire attack from a character of the same tier, it wouldn't be considered that way; however, if the 5-B character wouldn't survive being in the sun's surface (by the temperature), and other character can produce higher temperature than that, independently of its tier should be capable to damage or even kill the 5-B character.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

What if it's not outright stated that they wouldn't be able to survive in the Sun's surface?

 

[Antoniofer]

Then conventional fire manipulation (that is considered just another elemental attack and possesses its generic appearance) wouldn't work unless its coming from someone with similar tier; the fire manipulation from the opponent would need statements of working as real heat (such causing cellular damage or/and causing moleculates to accelerate).

 

[DragonEmperor23]

I see. So the degrees only matter in the scenario that the 5-B has been shown to be effected realisitically by temperature that they don't resist.

 

[The_Calaca]

Forgot about this thread. We should make something with it to make people notice about this since it's pretty important.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

How so?

Yeah, I agree. This was something I felt was really useful to know.

 

[The_Calaca]

You should contact more staff members, this way the discussion might change or not.

But this definitely needs to be added as a note in the page. This power is always controvertial when it comes to the discussion if heat is something notable or not.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Okay, I'll message some.

 

[Wokistan]

Our system is based off of energy, a category which heat includes. If someone gives a temperature there are some ways to derive AP from that, but if there's fire stated at some unrealistically low amount that damages like a tier 4 or something, just consider the AP of the character as tier 4.

As for the sun thing, this is due to the amount of heat the sun puts out per second. The total amount is somewhere around High 6-A but that's not gonna get focused on you, and I think a calc was done somewhere that showed that something with human size only deals with an 8-A amount of heat. It ignores the pressure aspect of the sun though.

I'd say the third thing is right.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

"The third thing I heard was that being able to burn 5-Bs would mean your fire is higher than 5-B as the temperature required to burn someone with that level of durability would be higher into the tier system than 5-B. So this line of thinking says that the strength of the character does matter and being able to burn other characters on your level means your fire is insanely hot."

This? For reference, the argument was that burning a 5-B would take 5-A levels of heat.

 

[Wokistan]

A 5-B is going to be harmed by a 5-B energy output, so I'm not sure why they're saying you'd need a 5-A amount. Mind linking to the argument?

 

[TriforcePower1]

It's just 1. Fire that can harm 5-Bs is 5-B fire, and so on.

 

[AguilaR101]

Fire doesn't ignore durability its temperature is irrelevant since it doesn't translate to joules by itself, you need to assume an object is being heated up to that degree to get energy.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

A 5-B is going to be harmed by a 5-B energy output, so I'm not sure why they're saying you'd need a 5-A amount. Mind linking to the argument?

I'm having trouble finding it. It was a Momoshiki thread.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Fire is technically just the result of a chemical reaction, and being burned alive should technically work the same regardless of durability going off of chemistry, as long as the material in question is flammable.

That said it's hardly how fiction treats it in most cases. Energy output is generally valued much like any other form of attack as feats often determine whether a character's fires will effect another character.

 

[Elizhaa]

It's just 1. Fire that can harm 5-Bs is 5-B fire, and so on.

I do agree. It should scaled the Tiering Energy.