Hot takes thread, safer edition

[Arceus0x]

Give me your best hot takes.
Rules:
-don't talk about specific people or groups of people
-don't talk about stuff that is outside the wiki (spacebattles, comicvine)
-you are not allowed to argue over something for long which means

you can only reply 3 times to argue against a point, this goes for each person arguing.

-don't insult verses, you can criticize them though.

I'll start.
In my opinion most of the intelligence sections, specifically the skills, are wanked.

 

[Shmooply]

Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries!

 

[Noneless21]

In my opinion most of the intelligence sections, specifically the skills, are wanked.

well, intelligence is usually used so that other people that's not knowledgable to the character can see how exactlyskilled said character is

tho, in my opinion, people just seems to like or hate a certain character just because they're OP, which is NOT good

 

[Funnimane]

the terms "wank" and "downplay" make me want to commit a federal offense

 

[Arceus0x]

the terms "wank" and "downplay" make me want to commit a federal offense

yeah wank is a weird word since it quite literally means to ********** something, however it is widely used and it is simply a term that we have to use so others can understand it.
Trying to prevent its usage is like an atheist trying to stop people from saying 'bless you' after you sneeze

 

[SuperStar]

Downgrade Threads > Upgrade Threads

 

[Arceus0x]

Downgrade Threads > Upgrade Threads

found the guy who's into sadism

 

[Arceus0x]

here's another hot take, victories via social influencing are baloney, if one character convinces another that they shouldn't fight then that would mean that the character who is convincing also doesn't want to fight which means that it should be inconclusive and not a loss for the guy being convinced

 

[FinePoint]

"Occam's razor" is almost completely useless on this platform which relies almost entirely on making assumptions. It's not a hard-and-fast logical rule, it's not even a fallacy, it's usually used incorrectly, and I do not care if I'm "making assumptions" on a character whose entire AP justification is based on six different mathematical assumptions in a battle where the win conditions are based on seven different assumptions.

Assumptions are the foundation of science, and aren't inherently bad. You can use your own logic to determine if a particular assumption is likely or not. Assuming that a typical 21 year old American can do basic algebra is a good assumption. Assuming that they can fly because their brother could fly is not. Assuming they can fly because they have wings and their brother who also has the same wings can fly is a good assumption. Occam's razor has become a mostly meaningless buzzword used to dismiss arguments without actually evaluating their logical merit.

And don't even get me started on the complete misinterpretation which is "The simple answer is usually the right one."

 

[Noneless21]

How about someone "convince" other people to just leave via social influencing? Does that count then?

 

[FinePoint]

here's another hot take, victories via social influencing are baloney, if one character convinces another that they shouldn't fight then that would mean that the character who is convincing also doesn't want to fight which means that it should be inconclusive and not a loss for the guy being convinced

Then you also have to discount victories by mind control.
The SBA was revised to make it clearer that not every battle has to be a battle to the death, and I think at one point even a chess match was accepted or something.

 

[Arceus0x]

Then you also have to discount victories by mind control.
The SBA was revised to make it clearer that not every battle has to be a battle to the death, and I think at one point even a chess match was accepted or something.

mind control is different. You force someone to do something, thus incapacitating them via your will, not their understanding. When influencing someone socially, if you were to, let's say, stab them after convincing them, they would turn around and beat the living heck out of you. On the other hand, if you mind hax someone and stab them, in most cases you can just keep stabbing them til they die or you can just force them into some situation from which they won't be able to get out of (unless, of course, your mind hax is garbage, in which case it's just weakness).

To simplify it, you need 2 people's will to stop fighting to social influence, you need 1 person to force another person to stop fighting for mind control.

 

[FinePoint]

mind control is different. You force someone to do something, thus incapacitating them via your will, not their understanding. When influencing someone socially, if you were to, let's say, stab them after convincing them, they would turn around and beat the living heck out of you. On the other hand, if you mind hax someone and stab them, in most cases you can just keep stabbing them til they die or you can just force them into some situation from which they won't be able to get out of (unless, of course, your mind hax is garbage, in which case it's just weakness).

To simplify it, you need 2 people's will to stop fighting to social influence, you need 1 person to force another person to stop fighting for mind control.

Well, technically there's a lot of mind manipulation which works this way too, only extending so far. I think it falls under victory in making them unable to fight, and socially influencing someone doesn't mean you don't want to win, it just means you think it's the best option to win.

 

[Arceus0x]

Well, technically there's a lot of mind manipulation which works this way too, only extending so far. I think it falls under victory in making them unable to fight, and socially influencing someone doesn't mean you don't want to win, it just means you think it's the best option to win.

i don't mean not wanting to win, i mean wanting to fight. Currently people consider that making someone not wish to fight via social influencing means its a victory for the guy doing the talking. Problem is that would mean that the person who is convincing also doesn't want to fight anymore and won't fight. This would mean that both will not want to fight and thus they both lose since both are mentally incapacitated.

How about someone "convince" other people to just leave via social influencing? Does that count then?

i mean if they convince them to give up and say that they lose then yeah sure, leaving...idk i think convincing someone to go home is more of the same as above since neither want to fight.

One instance of social influencing being effective is supernatural social influencing which tbh should be morality/empathic/mind manipulation and the other is, somehow using social influencing to traumatize your opponent to the point of a mental breakdown during which they will be incapacitated

 

[Noneless21]

i mean if they convince them to give up and say that they lose then yeah sure, leaving...idk i think convincing someone to go home is more of the same as above since neither want to fight.

One instance of social influencing being effective is supernatural social influencing which tbh should be morality/empathic/mind manipulation and the other is, somehow using social influencing to traumatize your opponent to the point of a mental breakdown during which they will be incapacitated

i heard someone from fallout that can do such things no? Beside, social influencing will be considered if it's combat applicable like makes your opponent become your ally just by your presence or by few words only

 

[Arceus0x]

makes your opponent become your ally just by your presence or by few words only

by just your prescence is probably just straight up empathic manipulation. I still think that using words is simply sharing the loss with the opponent since both aren't willing to fight.

Anyways i am out of replies. Argument over, though you can obviously reply.

 

[Noneless21]

by just your prescence is probably just straight up empathic manipulation. I still think that using words is simply sharing the loss with the opponent since both aren't willing to fight.

Anyways i am out of replies. Argument over, though you can obviously reply.

well, winning via social influencing is kinda bullshit so i'll also close this argument with my final reply

 

[FinePoint]

My final post about the subject will be that the character you're thinking of is Courier 6.
Using social influencing to convince people immediately to give up, run away, join their side, or even commit suicide are all in-character and easy to him, even if the enemy is a bloodthirsty psychopath or someone whose home he literally nuked (and who has been plotting revenge for years).

Also I feel like this wiki would be a lot more civil and well-constructed if we had this three response limit to EVERY argument

 

[Arceus0x]

My final post about the subject will be that the character you're thinking of is Courier 6.
Using social influencing to convince people immediately to give up, run away, join their side, or even commit suicide are all in-character and easy to him, even if the enemy is a bloodthirsty psychopath or someone whose home he literally nuked (and who has been plotting revenge for years).

Also I feel like this wiki would be a lot more civil and well-constructed if we had this three response limit to EVERY argument

Courier does seem like the perfect example of what I would accept as a wincon since convincing someone to suicide is indeed a victory in my eyes.
(i can make this reply since it is not an argument but rather just an agreement)

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Arceus being fodder low 1-C.
I don't even. i would prefer him not being changed at all than being fodder low 1-C like lol.

RVR thread are like Keemstar's news. Glad its staff only now

 

[FinePoint]

Arceus being fodder low 1-C.
I don't even. i would prefer him not being changed at all than being fodder low 1-C like lol.

RVR thread are like Keemstar's news. Glad its staff only now

Not as bad as Saitama tbf.
Every single time he gets upgraded, he just gets pushed into even more people with hax he has no protection against and will in-character let them hit him.

 

[Arceus0x]

Not as bad as Saitama tbf.
Every single time he gets upgraded, he just gets pushed into even more people with hax he has no protection against and will in-character let them hit him.

yeah tbh at least arceus is stomped by bs god tiers, Saitama on the other hand has his 9-B side abused and his 5-C key also keep losing and due to not being stomps he ends up just getting more and more losses

 

[Arcker123]

One Piece is very easily the worst in the Big 3/HST

 

[SuperStar]

Hunter Hunter > The Big 3

 

[Arcker123]

Hunter Hunter > The Big 3

False. Like this is objectively not true. Doesn’t even get past Naruto

 

[Quantu]

In terms of? Power ofc not U̶n̶i̶v̶e̶r̶s̶a̶l̶ ̶D̶a̶r̶k̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶t̶i̶n̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶l̶o̶a̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶n̶e̶x̶t̶ ̶c̶e̶n̶t̶u̶r̶y̶

 

[Arcker123]

Ichigo>>>>>>>>>Walter White
Uryu=<Jesse
Orihime>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Skyler
Aizen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>♾Gus Fring

Bleach wipes all of Breaking Bad in both strength and writing. Several individual characters from Bleach terrorize the BB cast.

 

[SuperStar]

Bro said strength like they ain't regular humans

 

[Newendigo]

I think we should see calculations as not the main source of info for a character statistics and mostly as just a secondary source of info to give an approximation of their capabilities via "realistic math".

Because at the end of the day calculations are just really fan speculations and are not in any way canon (Much less have more canocity) than what happens in a verse.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

here's another hot take, victories via social influencing are baloney, if one character convinces another that they shouldn't fight then that would mean that the character who is convincing also doesn't want to fight which means that it should be inconclusive and not a loss for the guy being convinced

I remember a match where someone's wincon was to Convince an alien to not destroy/kill all life on earth, when that Alien is a genocide that is directly programmed to absorb and conquer the universe and wants to destroy the earth.

 

[Funnimane]

having a bad sense of humor is good because you get to laugh more often

 

[Peppersalt43]

I remember a match where someone's wincon was to Convince an alien to not destroy/kill all life on earth, when that Alien is a genocide that is directly programmed to absorb and conquer the universe and wants to destroy the earth.

Hey, I was there! It's the Contessa vs Makino match!

Basically the reason that happened was because her power always forces her to do whatever will most likely leads her to victory and in this case, her only chance was social influencing

It works in that context

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Hmmm... I suppose I'll give this a whirl.

*Verse's where only one or two users can fully comprehend and evaluate should be deleted or not allowed on the Wiki (it's honestly worst than an echo chamber) can't really call ourselves a public indexing site if the vast majority of people can't understand what's been indexed.

*RVR should be even more stricter with the peanut gallery tbh. I only comment once on the subject and move on yet too often the subject gets dragged on while staff and regular users jump on the bandwagon causing a mountain to grow from a mole hill (causing more drama than necessary) honestly even after the staff discussion thread to make RVR more concise, I haven't noticed any difference tbh.

*High 2-A should be brought back imo. Between the asinine logistics of above baseline 2-A, the Low 1-C upgrade bandwagon over the past year and a half not to mention the confusion caused by people assuming being Low 1-C makes you 5D even tho various verses don't work like that (Being infinitely above 4D and being 5D aren't the same), it all just causes an unnecessary headache.

 

[Arceus0x]

people assuming being Low 1-C makes you 5D

it does make you 5D but only in potency and defense. Otherwise you need to encompass a 5D realm to be fully 5D

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Ichigo>>>>>>>>>Walter White
Uryu=<Jesse
Orihime>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Skyler
Aizen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>♾Gus Fring

Bleach wipes all of Breaking Bad in both strength and writing. Several individual characters from Bleach terrorize the BB cast.

Bro bleach fans are genuinely some of the funniest mfs on the anime community like what does bro even mean by that

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

I don´t like All Might

 

[Funnimane]

lovecraftian horror is usually boring and redundant, save for a few select cases that probably don't even count as it by most people's definitions

 

[Funnimane]

Postal 2 has the best morality system of any game

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

becoming smurf sucks
i want my characters back dominating Top 5 strongest non smurfs REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

[Arcker123]

Postal 2 has the best morality system of any game

False