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Honkai: Star Rail Discussion Thread

PlungingThroughTime said:
Zephyro can't take Khaslana's blade head on. He wouldn't facetank an attack from Khaslana. He avoids, blocks and parries it. Does that mean Khaslana is relative? No. Of course it doesn't. Just because Zephyro has to react to Acheron's attacks does not mean she's instantly relative (or even comparable) to Zephyro.

Within the context of the joke, 'taking the blade head on' is shorthand for tanking it, like the traffic light head does.
Click to expand...
This example is nonsense because

1. Zephyro is astronomically stronger than Khaslana

2. Zephyro held back to match Khaslana’s level

It doesn’t even make sense to use this either because if someone cannot withstand a direct attack head on without dodging then by definition that person IS strong enough to heavily damage them and therefore scales. If you say it’s the opposite then that is textbook vibes because that’s not how scaling works. You cannot just magically be several tiers weaker and still be a threat with a head on attack.

Also how on earth are you even interpreting the statement as that is the joke. “Tanking it like the traffic cone does” The joke is quite literally the traffic cone being omnipotent and indestructible 😭
 
CastoriceTheFifth said:
It doesn’t even make sense to use this either because if someone cannot withstand a direct attack head on without dodging then by definition that person IS strong enough to heavily damage them and therefore scales. If you say it’s the opposite then that is textbook vibes because that’s not how scaling works. You cannot just magically be several tiers weaker and still be a threat with a head on attack.
Click to expand...
I really dislike the 'X can't damage Y' across tiers argument, but yeah, if Phainon scales to Nanook by scratching him then Acheron definitely scales to Zephyro as her attacks are significant enough to not be facetanked by Zephyro.

It's definitely not what I'd call relative or comparable, it just seems like I disagree with the wiki on this.

If a rat bites your foot and deals damage, it's still not as strong as a human. Etc.
 
PlungingThroughTime said:
I really dislike the 'X can't damage Y' across tiers argument, but yeah, if Phainon scales to Nanook by scratching him then Acheron definitely scales to Zephyro as her attacks are significant enough to not be facetanked by Zephyro.

It's definitely not what I'd call relative or comparable, it just seems like I disagree with the wiki on this.

If a rat bites your foot and deals damage, it's still not as strong as a human. Etc.
Click to expand...
Heres how I view it


SSJ2 Gohan is stronger or comparable to Super Perfect Cell. Gohan became crippled to the ground with a broken arm when taking an attack from him head on with no defending or dodging. The same would happen vice versa if roles were switched. Thats how I view that statement and that fight is. Neither of them can take an attack head on without serious injury or a threat or them.

Even if going with the lowest interpretation by giving Zephyro all the benefit of the doubt and sliming Acheron, the fact that Zephyro cannot take a head on attack from her and that it's a threat means she at least has to be downscaling his level in order for it to be possible in the first place.
 
CastoriceTheFifth said:
Heres how I view it


SSJ2 Gohan is stronger or comparable to Super Perfect Cell. Gohan became crippled to the ground with a broken arm when taking an attack from him head on with no defending or dodging. The same would happen vice versa if roles were switched. Thats how I view that statement and that fight is. Neither of them can take an attack head on without serious injury or a threat or them.

Even if going with the lowest interpretation by giving Zephyro all the benefit of the doubt and sliming Acheron, the fact that Zephyro cannot take a head on attack from her and that it's a threat means she at least has to be downscaling his level in order for it to be possible in the first place.
Click to expand...

Yeah, she's at least downscaling Zephyro and it's definitely the minimum possible interpretation here. I just disagree with that meaning equal tiering / relative. If the wiki's standards say that downscaling qualifies for something being the same tier / comparable, then I can't disagree with your judgement on this as it fits within the wiki's standards. I can only disagree with the wiki itself, y'know?
 
PlungingThroughTime said:
Yeah, she's at least downscaling Zephyro and it's definitely the minimum possible interpretation here. I just disagree with that meaning equal tiering / relative. If the wiki's standards say that downscaling qualifies for something being the same tier / comparable, then I can't disagree with your judgement on this as it fits within the wiki's standards. I can only disagree with the wiki itself, y'know?
Click to expand...
Downscaling on the wiki I'm pretty sure would be if a profile declares they downscale from a value in the statistic value
image.png


Extreme downscaling is if you give them an At most rating
 
vsbattles.com

Acheron does NOT have acausality type 2

Hello again! So i was looking over the profiles and noticed that currently Acheron has Acausality type 2 for these reasons Acausality (Type 2; Acheron does not show up in Elio's script even though he can see an infinite amount of possible futures and she has no past as the Nihility erased...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
I'm looking at the profiles and apparently Zephyro was 683 times stronger than Khaslana the whole time? 4.3 yottafoe vs 2.93626771 RonnaFoe. Jesus Christ I didn't know bro was holding back this much especially since isn't Khaslana supposed to be equal to Incomplete Irontomb?
 
KaizerCone said:
I'm looking at the profiles and apparently Zephyro was 683 times stronger than Khaslana the whole time? 4.3 yottafoe vs 2.93626771 RonnaFoe. Jesus Christ I didn't know bro was holding back this much especially since isn't Khaslana supposed to be equal to Incomplete Irontomb?
Click to expand...
If Khaslana was equal to Incomplete Irontomb Amphoreus as a storyline would just not make sense

Khaslana is significantly weaker than Zephyro since it's a Pathstrider vs one of the strongest Emanators in the verse
 
Like the only way you can even argue he's comparable to Incomplete Irontomb is after his body was blessed by the WCB he physically sealed the Lord Ravager between like 3.4 to 3.7 which would've been impossible for him prior to that

Even then it's kind of just speculating
 
Scrubforhire said:
Khaslana is significantly weaker than Zephyro since it's a Pathstrider vs one of the strongest Emanators in the verse
Click to expand...
Don't we explicitly have Phainon as an Emanator of Destruction as well?
"and after being gazed upon by Nanook,[1] the Aeon of Destruction, Phainon ascended to the status of a Lord Ravager,[67] an Emanator of Destruction,[18] making him capable of incinerating entire galaxies".
The reason I'm asking this is because Khaslanas own profile explicitly makes it sound as if he reached a roughly similar level to Zephyro himself after he received his rage amp by the end of there fight just before he used the 400 million core flame. One wouldn't think the gap was as ludicrously massive as there profile stats say. It genuinely makes me question why we even bothered keeping that fight in his profile when Zephyro was apparently holding back as much as he did.
"After being overpowered by the Lord Ravager Zephyro, he was ignited in sparks of red flames representing his rage, allowing him grow stronger and perform even better than previously against him"
"By being ignited in sparks of red flames representing his rage, he was briefly capable of keeping up with Zephyro who previously blitzed him".
My real issue is that his profile doesn't explain just how inferior he is relative to the strongest Lord Ravagers especially since the way it's worded makes him sound otherwise somewhat comparable to them to the point of possible downscaling.
Khaslana 14.3c vs Zephyro 63 sextillion (4 sextillion gap in Zephyro favor).
Khaslana being 683 times weaker AP wise.
Khaslana being 19 octillion times weaker in LS.
 
KaizerCone said:
Don't we explicitly have Phainon as an Emanator of Destruction as well?
"and after being gazed upon by Nanook,[1] the Aeon of Destruction, Phainon ascended to the status of a Lord Ravager,[67] an Emanator of Destruction,[18] making him capable of incinerating entire galaxies".
The reason I'm asking this is because Khaslanas own profile explicitly makes it sound as if he reached a roughly similar level to Zephyro himself after he received his rage amp by the end of there fight just before he used the 400 million core flame. One wouldn't think the gap was as ludicrously massive as there profile stats say. It genuinely makes me question why we even bothered keeping that fight in his profile when Zephyro was apparently holding back as much as he did.
"After being overpowered by the Lord Ravager Zephyro, he was ignited in sparks of red flames representing his rage, allowing him grow stronger and perform even better than previously against him"
"By being ignited in sparks of red flames representing his rage, he was briefly capable of keeping up with Zephyro who previously blitzed him".
My real issue is that his profile doesn't explain just how inferior he is relative to the strongest Lord Ravagers especially since the way it's worded makes him sound otherwise somewhat comparable to them to the point of possible downscaling.
Khaslana 14.3c vs Zephyro 63 sextillion (4 sextillion gap in Zephyro favor).
Khaslana being 683 times weaker AP wise.
Khaslana being 19 octillion times weaker in LS.
Click to expand...
Being gazed does NOT mean you become an Emanator, there is no confirmation that the gaze was what turned Khaslana into one. The World Cleansing Blood on the other hand is confirmed to be similar in nature to an Emanator of Destruction, which was melded into Phainon's body AFTER his assault on Nanook. Unless stated otherwise there is no reason to assume Phainon was an Emanator of Destruction during the animated short.

Khaslana using the 12 coreflames in his transformation perhaps give him "Emanator-level" power, but "Emanator-level" can range from people like Herta or Jing Yuan to people like Acheron or Zephyro, with the latter of the two being overwhelmingly more powerful than the former.
 
KaizerCone said:
The reason I'm asking this is because Khaslanas own profile explicitly makes it sound as if he reached a roughly similar level to Zephyro himself after he received his rage amp by the end of there fight just before he used the 400 million core flame.
Click to expand...
Hi, the person who wrote the justification here. It's not supposed to sound like that. It's just supposed to sound like he performed better than previously. (Which yes he did)

KaizerCone said:
One wouldn't think the gap was as ludicrously massive as there profile stats say. It genuinely makes me question why we even bothered keeping that fight in his profile when Zephyro was apparently holding back as much as he did.
Click to expand...
Why would we exclude it from the profiles. This is like excluding Goku Vs Beerus from Goku's profile because Beerus held back 3 entire infinities (Yes 3 infinities)

KaizerCone said:
My real issue is that his profile doesn't explain just how inferior he is relative to the strongest Lord Ravagers especially since the way it's worded makes him sound otherwise somewhat comparable to them to the point of possible downscaling.
Click to expand...
He doesn't scale to Zephyro because Zephyro held back to Khaslana's level in order to test him. He gave back Khaslana's sword just to give stab Khaslana with his own sword like 6 seconds later. The point of the justification is that he performed better than previously. This entire fight is a test. He already finished his job the moment Khaslana went TTGL form.

Picture this as Goku Vs Beerus. Goku kept growing several orders of magnitudes stronger. Doesn't mean he scales to Beerus.
 
Scrubforhire said:
Khaslana is significantly weaker than Zephyro since it's a Pathstrider
Click to expand...
We accept Chrysos Heirs as being special exceptions to the scaling due to their connections to the scepter, Irontomb, Nanook, golden blood, coreflames, yada yada.

This is why all Chrysos Heirs are scaled to Emanator value as shown with Coreflame allowing them to fight Theoros Lygus.
 
Scrubforhire said:
haslana using the 12 coreflames in his transformation perhaps give him "Emanator-level" power, but "Emanator-level" can range from people like Herta or Jing Yuan to people like Acheron or Zephyro, with the latter of the two being overwhelmingly more powerful than the former.
Click to expand...
Then you get the Ascended Heirs who scales to Acheron Zephyro Irontomb etc


Hyacine solos
 
Thanks for the explanation. The reasoning definitely makes more sense now. I still think Phainons profile should have some sort of note better explaining why he doesn't scale to Zephyros usual stats when he's not holding back especially with how we see Rage Amped Khaslana knocking Zephyro back and seemingly keeping up with him before he gets physically overpowered and has Dawnbreaker taken.
 
Scrubforhire said:
But it's still like 12 people jumping him so maybe it'll be fair
Click to expand...
Theres this match
vsbattles.com

Astral Express Vs Zephyro Rematch (Honkai: Star Rail)

Stelle, Dan Heng, March 7th, Welt Yang, Himeko, and Sunday Vs Zephyro Fight takes place in Amphoreus The Astral Express and Zephyro have prior knowledge as to what happened in Elio's alternate future Zephyro has prior knowledge that the express got stronger from Amphoreus' Coreflames...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
CastoriceTheFifth said:
Theres this match
vsbattles.com

Astral Express Vs Zephyro Rematch (Honkai: Star Rail)

Stelle, Dan Heng, March 7th, Welt Yang, Himeko, and Sunday Vs Zephyro Fight takes place in Amphoreus The Astral Express and Zephyro have prior knowledge as to what happened in Elio's alternate future Zephyro has prior knowledge that the express got stronger from Amphoreus' Coreflames...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Click to expand...
rematch again in 1 and a half month when himeko stops being dead weight and gets feats...
 
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