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Honkai: Star Rail Discussion Thread

Mbpoops said:
why the hell would kalpas be H1C??????????????
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Because he destroyed the Elysian Realm which is a COMPLETE Imaginary Space and that literal Herrscher of Flamescion was capable of fighting against Otto Apocalypse explicitly which is actually High 1-C here? Not to mention Flamescion is also capable of destroying Theater of Domination, which we still have accepted as 11-D on her Lifting Strength 😭
 
Voidnether said:
Because he destroyed the Elysian Realm which is a COMPLETE Imaginary Space and that literal Herrscher of Flamescion was capable of fighting against Otto Apocalypse explicitly which is actually High 1-C here? Not to mention Flamescion is also capable of destroying Theater of Domination, which we still have accepted as 11-D on her Lifting Strength 😭
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please show my a scan of the elysian realm being infinite in size. please show me a scan of the elysian realm being higher dimensional.
 
Mbpoops said:
please show my a scan of the elysian realm being infinite in size. please show me a scan of the elysian realm being higher dimensional.
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How tf is this relevant when it's a COMPLETE Imaginary Space, not even Otto Apocalypse's Imaginary Space is complete bro and this is High 1-C still 💔
Mbpoops said:
you vs common sense. it can be higher dimensional but not 11D why should it default to 11D?? the whole star of eden justification can be removed because we know alien space isnt 11 dimensional
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Then make the CRT because Welt's gravity works under Supergravity which is 11-D, we go with what's currently accepted on the profiles not YOU larping about some common sense
 
like deadass most the hi3 profiles are extrapolating 11D like sure they can be higher dimensional but not all of them are 11D only the sea and tree
 
Mbpoops said:
you vs common sense. it can be higher dimensional but not 11D why should it default to 11D?? the whole star of eden justification can be removed because we know alien space isnt 11 dimensional
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SoE might keep 11D SR rating since gravity now affects all dimensions and we nuked compactified ones or its just a 11D dimension hax range idc rly
 
Voidnether said:
Because he destroyed the Elysian Realm which is a COMPLETE Imaginary Space and that literal Herrscher of Flamescion was capable of fighting against Otto Apocalypse explicitly which is actually High 1-C here? Not to mention Flamescion is also capable of destroying Theater of Domination, which we still have accepted as 11-D on her Lifting Strength 😭
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Elysian realm one is virtual space in CN and isnt infinite from what i know
Otto church is idk just weird since it doesnt have any statement for its size
only theather remains infinite trough one or two statements and thats it but its low 2-C at best anywya
 
Voidnether said:
How tf is this relevant when it's a COMPLETE Imaginary Space, not even Otto Apocalypse's Imaginary Space is complete bro and this is High 1-C still 💔
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what does being a complete imaginary space even mean? is it siginifcant for tiering past 4-A? we dont have a size statement for any complete imaginary space except for the tree itself all we know is the elysian realm has a day and night cycle and stars. otto's space isnt even high 1-C why do you think I DIDNT INCLUDE HIM IN MY CRT
Voidnether said:
Then make the CRT because Welt's gravity works under Supergravity which is 11-D, we go with what's currently accepted on the profiles not YOU larping about some common sense
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thats legit just how gravity works. it returns things to it's singularity aka the cocoon. its just hax potency and nothing more
 
Mbpoops said:
what does being a complete imaginary space even mean? is it siginifcant for tiering past 4-A? we dont have a size statement for any complete imaginary space except for the tree itself all we know is the elysian realm has a day and night cycle and stars. otto's space isnt even high 1-C why do you think I DIDNT INCLUDE HIM IN MY CRT

thats legit just how gravity works. it returns things to it's singularity aka the cocoon. its just hax potency and nothing more
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Genuinely what tf were you thinking not making Otto's imaginary space to NOT be High 1-C, where tf do you think the Imaginary Tree's membranes ARE if it's not THERE
 
Voidnether said:
Scoops vs reading profiles 😭
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Stigmata spaces are Imaginary spaces too. Do some research into those, you'll soon understand not all Imaginary Spaces are the same or are 11D. I also believe Path Space is an Imaginary Space like this, just tied to an Aeon. As for Otto, he couldn't output ALL of that power at once. He had a limit due to his body. This is why he needs to die to alter the timeline of the Tree and make Kallen's world. Also, when discussing Imaginary Spaces like the Theatre of Domination, we don't automatically assume they're 11D, currently we have a minimum of 5D (I believe) as it's higher dimensional and infinite.

I would be more than happy to speak to you, or ANYONE about the cosmology.

As for the Cocoon we have multiple arguments for 1-A or L1-A coming up. Yes, it should be higher than H1-C. No, nobody else scales to this, just CoF.

Personally I genuinely just care about the cosmology being correct and then character scaling below that.
 
Voidnether said:
HE WAS LITERALLY BATHED UNDER IMAGINARY TREE'S AUTHORITY, THE MEMBRANES
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Damn! It's almost like what Aeons do to Emanators, when literally letting them harness that power
That doesn't mean that Emanator is fully scaling to the Aeon it's getting it's power from
And what phainon did Scratch is a stupid reason if that's the thought as he only managed to make a tiny ahh scratch just for Nanook to heal it off...

Otto slaving himself to the imaginary tree, entering and ascending Godhood/the tree was meant to make that timeline specifically for kallen
Ok so L2C and argue it slightly higher, maybe 2C.

What Otto did was not significant enough to damage the whole tree.

Sure if you want to say he damaged it then I hope yk that'll nuke H1C and it'll be a Default 2A structure

Which is a dumb argument to make,
And we don't have anything saying that the Aeons are comparable or on some form of power compared to the Cocoon of finality which we have direct proof and statements saying that it exists in a higher dimension.

So how does that work?
What sort of leaping headcanon do we need to say that every Aeon that's not IX or HooH

Do we need to make to say Aeons or Otto scale to the full extent of the tree or whatever?
So where in thus spoke apocalypse did he significantly affect the whole tree? Cause from what we're Shown he's making a whole new timeline
An easy L2C or 2C feat (whatever I can't bother to remember)
 
Mbpoops said:
He got empowered by the tree..? Like how aeons empower their emanators? I guess phantylia scales to nanook now huh
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This is irrelevant because we know Nigh-Incomplete Irontomb that became Completed in a split second was empowered to the point it's able to self-coronate, heck even Sunday as an Emanator through Harmonious Choir was empowered by people's wishes to the point it became the Second Ena by inflicting the fear of Swarm Disaster which was explicitly stated Ena's influence is the strongest amongst this time which UNIRONICALLY proves Otto being empowered by the Tree in a way both were relative because again HoV had to turn him into finite else they can't defeat Otto lmfao.
 
Voidnether said:
This is irrelevant because we know Nigh-Incomplete Irontomb that became Completed in a split second was empowered to the point it's able to self-coronate, heck even Sunday as an Emanator through Harmonious Choir was empowered by people's wishes to the point it became the Second Ena by inflicting the fear of Swarm Disaster which was explicitly stated Ena's influence is the strongest amongst this time which UNIRONICALLY proves Otto being empowered by the Tree in a way both were relative because again HoV had to turn him into finite else they can't defeat Otto lmfao.
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nono you're missing my point. just because someone is empowered by something doesnt mean they automatically scale to it or else phantylia would scale to nanook
 
Voidnether said:
This is irrelevant because we know Nigh-Incomplete Irontomb that became Completed in a split second was empowered to the point it's able to self-coronate, heck even Sunday as an Emanator through Harmonious Choir was empowered by people's wishes to the point it became the Second Ena by inflicting the fear of Swarm Disaster which was explicitly stated Ena's influence is the strongest amongst this time which UNIRONICALLY proves Otto being empowered by the Tree in a way both were relative because again HoV had to turn him into finite else they can't defeat Otto lmfao.
Click to expand...
My personal stance on this is that Otto had every ounce of Imaginary Energy at his disposal and was truly infinite being intertwined with the Tree's authority. This is why Imaginary Normalisation works.
But saying FG Otto is this strong is wrong because he can't output all of that power. The infinite power was regenerating his body, not giving him infinite strength, AP, durability or anything like that.

When he dies he's no longer a slave to the Imaginary and no longer has the limits of his body. In that state, and only that state, should he be able to draw upon all of his infinite energy. He uses this to influence the tree and there's nothing to say he couldn't influence other parts of the tree. It's just that all he cares about is fixing his mistake and saving Kallen.

It is very, very important to differentiate HSR and Hi3 because the two games are framed very, very differently. Sure, from a HSR's player your argument makes sense, but within Hi3's framing and the way it deals with the universe, tree and the power of its characters, it doesn't. THIS is why it's important to play the game.
 
PlungingThroughTime said:
My personal stance on this is that Otto had every ounce of Imaginary Energy at his disposal and was truly infinite being intertwined with the Tree's authority. This is why Imaginary Normalisation works.
But saying FG Otto is this strong is wrong because he can't output all of that power. The infinite power was regenerating his body, not giving him infinite strength, AP, durability or anything like that.

When he dies he's no longer a slave to the Imaginary and no longer has the limits of his body. In that state, and only that state, should he be able to draw upon all of his infinite energy.

It is very, very important to differentiate HSR and Hi3 because the two games are framed very, very differently. Sure, from a HSR's player your argument makes sense, but within Hi3's framing and the way it deals with the universe, tree and the power of its characters, it doesn't.
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↑↑↑↑
 
If Empowered entity can be directly scale to the Origin of their power then there will be no such thing as different power level like a random Destruction Pathstrider will be equal to Nanook which is just ridiculous
 
Zanesucksatlife said:
Damn! It's almost like what Aeons do to Emanators, when literally letting them harness that power
That doesn't mean that Emanator is fully scaling to the Aeon it's getting it's power from
And what phainon did Scratch is a stupid reason if that's the thought as he only managed to make a tiny ahh scratch just for Nanook to heal it off...

Otto slaving himself to the imaginary tree, entering and ascending Godhood/the tree was meant to make that timeline specifically for kallen
Ok so L2C and argue it slightly higher, maybe 2C.

What Otto did was not significant enough to damage the whole tree.

Sure if you want to say he damaged it then I hope yk that'll nuke H1C and it'll be a Default 2A structure

Which is a dumb argument to make,
And we don't have anything saying that the Aeons are comparable or on some form of power compared to the Cocoon of finality which we have direct proof and statements saying that it exists in a higher dimension.

So how does that work?
What sort of leaping headcanon do we need to say that every Aeon that's not IX or HooH

Do we need to make to say Aeons or Otto scale to the full extent of the tree or whatever?
So where in thus spoke apocalypse did he significantly affect the whole tree? Cause from what we're Shown he's making a whole new timeline
An easy L2C or 2C feat (whatever I can't bother to remember)
Click to expand...
You do know CoF's evidence of being High 1-C is because it surpassed the Sea of Quanta and its overall nature and properties, correct?

CoF's realm transcending space-time, and itself transcending all dimensions whilst having space itself to be born from CoF which is somehow only treated as an insignificant 12-D.

Hell, let's compare their HE output instead; CoF's honkai energy levels is stated to be infinite in the sense of transfinite numbers and Otto's honkai energy levels is comparable to the Previous Era of Herrscher of Finality.

There are many more evidences that CoF scale far higher than High 1-C, it's ironic how only CoF, Current Era Kevin and above plus the trio cast (HoF, HoO, HoT) to be High 1-C but the rest aren't when High 1-C is legit the lowest possible tier in the verse cause we have more feats that prove it's above said rating such as infinite irrational numbers in Imaginary Space being comparable to infinite dimensions with their amount explicitly being infinite which was accepted in the Low 1-C downgrade.

You know what's funny however? That Low 1-C thread admitting it refers to their amount instead of their size, in which a compactified infinite dimension is still High 1-B and this is actually where CoF should scale at the lowest.
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
Always knew the Sirin who jobbed to a nuke is High 1-C since her Herrscher core stems from the Cocoon
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Also on this I'm pretty sure it's borderline canon that the Cocoon limits its Herrschers powers. That's why the Herrschers grow in power indefinitely as humanity develops. Not to mention Sirin being drained and snuck by the nuke. She even made a mistake teleporting it underground, which is explicit.
 
Voidnether said:
You know what's funny however? That Low 1-C thread admitting it refers to their amount instead of their size, in which a compactified infinite dimension is still High 1-B and this is actually where CoF should scale at the lowest.
Click to expand...
The goal of that thread was to fix the SoQ scaling, NOT the CoF. We're getting to that. The very lowest bar is 1-B from what I see, because it's blatantly 12D. L1-A and 1-A arguments exist though we're navigating those.

Even then getting the characters like HoO to H1-C is a bit of a reach, even I think that, especially since the coming CoF upgrades will only apply to the CoF, not the authority of Finality.

Minor corrections:
The Imaginary Tree's size is infinite in the sense of the transfinite. Not the CoF's energy, they were talking about FINDING the CoF. This was only possible through reverse-tracking the Cocoon with a piece of Kevin's Finality Authority.
 
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