Honkai: Star Rail Ability Removals (Part 1)

[IStar0thh]

After reviewing some Honkai: Star Rail profiles, I noticed a number of abilities that appear to lack sufficient justification and should be removed.

1. Resistance to Status Effect Inducement

A large number of characters (nearly all of them) are listed as having Resistance to Status Effect Inducement, despite there being NO JUSTIFICATION provided on their profiles.
The main counterargument will likely be that characters possess the Effect RES stat, which is described as reducing the chance of being afflicted by debuffs. However, I do not believe this is sufficient justification.

The Effect RES page simply defines it as a combat stat used in the game's probability formula for applying debuffs. It explains how the gameplay system calculates the success rate of status effects, but it does not establish that characters are canonically resistant to those effects.

In fact, most Honkai: Star Rail characters appear to have 0% base Effect RES, only gaining it through, Talents, Relics, Light Cones, and other progression systems. These are gameplay mechanics that modify combat statistics and, by themselves, do not constitute evidence of canonical resistance.

-
—Now let's move on to relics, as they're one of the primary arguments used by the supporters.

The problem is that relics are an RNG-based system with completely random stats. Furthermore, even if we only consider the fixed set effects of relics to be canonical, it's still a huge assumption to claim that characters canonically carry specific relic sets for specific situations. As far as I'm aware, the story never even implies that. In most gacha games, relics are simply an RNG progression system with little to no narrative relevance.

Unlike games such as God of War, where you directly control Kratos throughout the story and obtain equipment as part of the narrative progression, gacha games don't work that way. In most cases, you have no way of knowing which specific relics a character has, as this is almost never addressed or acknowledged in the story.

—Since there is neither supporting evidence nor an explanation for this resistance, it should be removed from ALL affected profiles.

【Now, let's assume for the sake of argument that all of this is canon. I'm perfectly fine with that.

However, why should a character be granted a specific stat boost or ability from a relic if they've never been shown to possess that relic in the first place?

Are we just supposed to assume they somehow have it?

I'm perfectly fine with a character receiving the stat boosts or abilities provided by a relic if there is evidence that they actually possess that relic. Otherwise, it seems like an unsupported assumption】

-

2. Trailblazer (Herta Space Station Key)

Some of the Trailblazer's listed abilities also appear to be unsupported.

I. Stat Amplification
The Trailblazer is listed as having Stat Amplification, but no scan or lore statement has been provided to support this ability.
Additionally, the cited effect merely increases stats such as Critical Damage, HP, and Attack, which appears to be a gameplay mechanic rather than a canonical ability. As such, this ability should either be removed or supported with an appropriate scan.

II. Jarilo-VI to Mid-Penacony Arc Trailblazer
This Trailblazer Key is also listed as having Enhanced Statistics Amplification, with the supporting scan coming from an EIDOLON.
However, Eidolons are additional character upgrades obtained through the gacha system (the fact that the Trailblazer receives them for free is irrelevant). Eidolon abilities are not part of a character's BASE KIT, so they should not be used to justify abilities on the base profile unless the game's lore explicitly states otherwise.

The only thing I could find in the lore is a loading screen that says:

"The possibility of the existence of observers. As people embark on a set path, those possibilities eventually collapse into a single entity."

How are we supposed to conclude something as specific as that from this? Bruh.

And even if we assume Eidolons are canon—which, in my opinion, still lacks sufficient evidence—what does that actually mean for the characters? During the story, do they have their Eidolons? If so, how many? E1? E2? E4? E6? This is never stated anywhere. The profiles are effectively choosing arbitrary values without any supporting evidence.

Furthermore, if ANY other character profiles include abilities that are granted exclusively through Eidolons, those abilities should likewise be removed from their profiles.

-

So, for the staff, my current proposal is this(page 2)

Agree: Vietthai96(Staff): Agree with everything
LordGriffin1000(Staff): Agrees only with the removal of the Eidolons and the Trailblazer's Statistics Amplification (pending the supporters providing a proper scan). Has not commented on the relics yet.
AyOgUyS: agree with everything
AlipheeseXIV: Agree about the Eidolons
Mbpoops: Agree about the Eidolons

Disagree: AlipheeseXIV(the rest)
Mbpoops(the rest)
Nighting4l33yes: Disagree with everything
SSGDanny: Disagree with everything

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Why is this even in parts

 

[IStar0thh]

Why is this even in parts

The next topic I was planning to cover is quite controversial imo, and I think it would take much longer to resolve. That's why I decided to tackle the easier part first.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

The next topic I was planning to cover is quite controversial imo, and I think it would take much longer to resolve. That's why I decided to tackle the easier part first.

You should tell me what the next topic is fr

 

[AyOgUyS]

This seems straightforward and uncontroversial, agreed.

 

[Xdsagecat]

"(Part 1)"

The next topic I was planning to cover is quite controversial imo

 

[SSGDanny]

Eidolons are additional character upgrades obtained through the gacha system (the fact that the Trailblazer receives them for free is irrelevant). Eidolon abilities are not part of a character's BASE KIT, so they should not be used to justify abilities on the base profile unless the game's lore explicitly states otherwise.

Why?

Additionally, the cited effect merely increases stats such as Critical Damage, HP, and Attack, which appears to be a gameplay mechanic rather than a canonical ability. As such, this ability should either be removed or supported with an appropriate lore scan.

Light cone abilities are canon in-game, and those abilities often contain stuff like Attack, Crit, HP, Energy Regen, Action Advance and so on. Why should we assume then that the same stats gained via traces or talents don't count? IIRC the Trailblazer canonically equips a light cone that increases his skill and basic damage by 20% in the space station

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Only thing I agree with here is the eidolon shit, other than that everything else seems to just be a misunderstanding of standards regarding how the wiki handles game mechanics. Literally every game profile has stuff like this, so if you're going to change it here, might as well walk the walk and change the standards across the entire site atp. Some examples include the following

• The Queenslayer
• 2B
• Mega Man
• Mario
• Sonic
• Kratos
• Dante

And many, many more

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Also, you forgot to put an agree, disagree and neutral section in the OP

 

[Mbpoops]

I remember an eidolon ability being removed from hu tao in a thread a while back so im not too against eidolons being removed, however, the statistics amplificstion for herta space station should stay. Gameplay mechanics are usually accepted for profiles and trailblazer with their ult can increase their statistics thats how the ability works.

The effect res thing or wtv idrc much about so neutral

 

[Mbpoops]

Also i might as well mention this but people may have forgotten that things such as light cones and stellar jades are canon in lore, of course i can send the scans once i reach my pc but they actually achknowledge these things in the story.

For eidolons you could just argue they are memories (rememberance) since they kinda resemble them. Of course idk the description for eidolons so take jt with a grain of salt but yea

 

[SSGDanny]

I will mention that relics and their effects are part of the game and it is possible to build every single character in the game with 100% effect res

 

[Mbpoops]

for #1 we could prolly compromise for limited resistance but eh ill see how the argument goes

 

[Mbpoops]

I will mention that relics and their effects are part of the game and it is possible to build every single character in the game with 100% effect res

Oh yea planar relics are deadass canon in the lore aswell

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Disagree. Gameplay mechanics are canon.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Gameplay mechanics are usually accepted for profiles and trailblazer with their ult can increase their statistics thats how the ability works.

Quite literally, we have entire abilities that primarily come from video game mechanics and the wiki even blatantly states this on the pages

Stats Amp
This ability is very common in video games, but is still prevalent within other works.

Stats Red
Statistics Reduction is most frequently in video game series.

ffs man, the stats inducement page literally has the image of a pokemon battle and has pokemon as users of the ability

 

[IStar0thh]

Light cone abilities are canon in-game, and those abilities often contain stuff like Attack, Crit, HP, Energy Regen, Action Advance and so on. Why should we assume then that the same stats gained via traces or talents don't count? IIRC the Trailblazer canonically equips a light cone that increases his skill and basic damage by 20% in the space station

Light Cones being canonical has nothing to do with gameplay mechanics like Traces, talents, or Eidolons being canonical.

Furthermore, that still doesn't change the fact that almost every character in HSR appears to have 0% base Effect RES, which is literally the first point being discussed.

As for the Trailblazer's stat amplification (Herta Space Station), my point is that there isn't a single scan saying they actually amplify their stats. Are people just supposed to accept that based on random words?

Only thing I agree with here is the eidolon shit, other than that everything else seems to just be a misunderstanding of standards regarding how the wiki handles game mechanics. Literally every game profile has stuff like this, so if you're going to change it here, might as well walk the walk and change the standards across the entire site atp. Some examples include the following

• The Queenslayer
• 2B
• Mega Man
• Mario
• Sonic
• Kratos
• Dante

And many, many more

Game mechanics aren't universally accepted on the wiki. Aside from one of the examples you mentioned, Kratos, the gameplay mechanics—such as items—have explicit descriptions explaining what they do, rather than relying solely on their stat values. That's completely different from what's happening here.

And again, I'm not talking about Light Cones. If the Trailblazer's stat amplification is actually supported by a Light Cone, then just provide the scan.
One of my main issues is precisely the lack of any supporting scan.

Quite literally, we have entire abilities that primarily come from video game mechanics and the wiki even blatantly states this on the pages

And?

ffs man, the stats inducement page literally has the image of a pokemon battle and has pokemon as users of the ability

Phew, I thought it was something about the HSR verse, but it was about Pokemon.

Disagree. Gameplay mechanics are canon.

Send the scan.

 

[SuperNova55555]

I guess it just usually depends on a case-by-case scenario. Stuff like Relics are canonically fragmented information shat out by Fragmentums, whereas Light Cones are memories in the past screenshot by Remembrance.

A package of solidified phenomena.
Its power is sealed in slices of light.

So it is literally power attained by a solidified moment in the past.

But there’s also stuff like, say, Combat Paths. Which for obvious reasons are non-canon. Or something like an Aha Instant; it’s not as if Aha themselves literally attacks in-canon with any Elation character. So yeah.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Send the scan.

It's been sent. It's that equipment is used by characters and that it has actual effects on their stats.

Besides, gameplay mechanics overall are not as controversial as you think. Marvel Rivals characters have resistances to in-game abilities and mechanics. Traveler has elemental resistances from fighting the in-game boss Signora. LoL characters have duraneg and shit because of true damage (we should get this too btw). DnD characters, and even BG3 ones have abilities and resistances transfered from in-game stats.

It's just not consistent to remove stuff like this when all verses index them. If you feel like they need hard in-game lore reasons, start a staff thread

 

[Mbpoops]

It's been sent. It's that equipment is used by characters and that it has actual effects on their stats.

Besides, gameplay mechanics overall are not as controversial as you think. Marvel Rivals characters have resistances to in-game abilities and mechanics. Traveler has elemental resistances from fighting the in-game boss Signora. LoL characters have duraneg and shit because of true damage (we should get this too btw). DnD characters, and even BG3 ones have abilities and resistances transfered from in-game stats.

It's just not consistent to remove stuff like this when all verses index them. If you feel like they need hard in-game lore reasons, start a staff thread

lowkey forgot true damage existed

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

lowkey forgot true damage existed

same

 

[Xdsagecat]

Disagree. Gameplay mechanics are canon.

Wait this is confirmed from the higher ups? I see wuwa upscale sometime soon.

 

[Mbpoops]

Wait this is confirmed from the higher ups? I see wuwa upscale sometime soon.

its case by case. some visuals may be considered inconsistant and not canon but things like status inflictions and stat amps are considered canon and what not just depends on how the verse treats them

 

[Mbpoops]

its case by case. some visuals may be considered inconsistant and not canon but things like status inflictions and stat amps are considered canon and what not just depends on how the verse treats them

like we wouldnt say this = flame reaver destroys amphoreus' star system

 

[IStar0thh]

Up to this point, the only argument the supporters have provided any evidence for is the Trailblazer's Statistics Amplification, and even then, only in the context of Herta Space Station. Even in that case, no direct scans have been provided, which was one of my original concerns with the profiles.

The point regarding Effect Inducement still hasn't been addressed. As I've already mentioned, playable Honkai: Star Rail characters appear to have 0% base Effect RES, with only a handful gaining additional Effect RES through their Traces or other explicit sources. I've also already explained my issues with using relics in the OP.

The problem is fairly simple: everyone seems to assume that every character possesses every relic, allowing resistances to be granted universally. That doesn't seem logical to me.

Keep in mind that some characters do have Traces that explicitly grant Effect RES, and I have no issue with those. My argument is specifically against extending those resistances to characters without any supporting evidence.

The point about Light Cones is fine. However, everything else seems to be accepted primarily for the sake of maintaining the current standards, while the underlying issues are left unaddressed.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I think the resistance to status effects can stay. Yes the system is a game mechanic but it's not a mechanic like a difficulty system. A mechanic that wouldn't work would be something like in games where you take a hit but you have a brief moment of invincibility so you don't get double tapped. This has an actual system that can be increased with outside help from things, which is usually why characters have tablets for abilities that come from items. Overall, I think it's usable, just needs to be explained what it's from. Like another example is Final Fantasy, you can equip various weapons that grant effects, which is usable but lore wise the characters aren't using them (at least in certain games).

I can agree with removing the stat amp for trailblazer since it doesn't have a scan. I think Eidolons should be better explained if they want to be used, I can agree with that removal as well.

 

[Mbpoops]

ok serious question, do we assume character profiles are applied with maxed out traces? if so then the whole effect res thing should just be limited resistence

 

[Mbpoops]

I think the resistance to status effects can stay. Yes the system is a game mechanic but it's not a mechanic like a difficulty system. A mechanic that wouldn't work would be something like in games where you take a hit but you have a brief moment of invincibility so you don't get double tapped. This has an actual system that can be increased with outside help from things, which is usually why characters have tablets for abilities that come from items. Overall, I think it's usable, just needs to be explained what it's from. Like another example is Final Fantasy, you can equip various weapons that grant effects, which is usable but lore wise the characters aren't using them (at least in certain games).

I can agree with removing the stat amp for trailblazer since it doesn't have a scan. I think Eidolons should be better explained if they want to be used, I can agree with that removal as well.

i mean i can just add a scan for it rq if thats the only issue with it

 

[LordGriffin1000]

ok serious question, do we assume character profiles are applied with maxed out traces? if so then the whole effect res thing should just be limited resistence

If you can find the max value, it would be that. So long as it's not from an exploit or something like that.

i mean i can just add a scan for it rq if thats the only issue with it

A scan for statistics amp would keep it from getting removed, yes.

 

[Mbpoops]

hmmmmm ok im seeing the issue with stats amp.

so im pretty sure this key was made when the game dropped and they assumed that traces counted for stats up. normally the trailblazer only increases their ATK% and crit% in that key so if the justification needs to be changed to just those to then thats fine i have the scans for it

If you can find the max value, it would be that. So long as it's not from an exploit or something like that.

yea no one hits 100% from traces alone, you'd need relic sets so im not entirely sure if we should include that in the profile as full resistance or just limited

 

[IStar0thh]

I think the resistance to status effects can stay. Yes the system is a game mechanic but it's not a mechanic like a difficulty system. A mechanic that wouldn't work would be something like in games where you take a hit but you have a brief moment of invincibility so you don't get double tapped. This has an actual system that can be increased with outside help from things, which is usually why characters have tablets for abilities that come from items. Overall, I think it's usable, just needs to be explained what it's from. Like another example is Final Fantasy, you can equip various weapons that grant effects, which is usable but lore wise the characters aren't using them (at least in certain games).

I can agree with removing the stat amp for trailblazer since it doesn't have a scan. I think Eidolons should be better explained if they want to be used, I can agree with that removal as well.

I'm fine with that, but I'd appreciate it if you could take a look at the new section I added to the OP regarding relics.

I'm not 100% against treating relics as canon. My issue is with assuming that a character possesses a specific relic when there's no evidence that they actually have it.

For example, this would allow people to claim that every character has a relic that grants resistance to a certain effect, even if only one character has ever been shown or implied to possess that relic. That assumption doesn't seem justified to me.

 

[SSGDanny]

I personally think relic abilities should still be included, since they are a pretty integral part of the game and there are multiple in-game shops that sell them outright. Also, as i mentioned, you can hit 100% effect res on every character in the game with relics, even those with 0% base res

 

[Mbpoops]

I personally think relic abilities should still be included, since they are a pretty integral part of the game and there are multiple in-game shops that sell them outright. Also, as i mentioned, you can hit 100% effect res on every character in the game with relics, even those with 0% base res

yea if we take relics into account then it should stay as is, if not just make it limited via traces

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Unlike games such as God of War, where you directly control Kratos throughout the story and obtain equipment as part of the narrative progression, gacha games don't work that way. In most cases, you have no way of knowing which specific relics a character has, as this is almost never addressed or acknowledged in the story.

Bull.. A bunch of weapons from profiles like Kratos, Bayonetta, Dante etc are NEVER used in the story but they are still indexed. Bayo and Dante even have accessories and even "joke"/arcade items. Even when it comes to the Relics and traces and all that, the game still guides you and it's part of the main questline so what exactly is the problem? Can people stop ignoring standards in this wiki?

 

[Vietthai96]

Yeah, remove them, though Light Cone is canonical thing so what gain through light cone can be kept, the rest should go if they does not get referenced in lore

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Yeah, remove them, though Light Cone is canonical thing so what gain through light cone can be kept, the rest should go if they does not get referenced in lore

But... they are?

Eidolons are literally canonical and so are Traces. Even leveling. Almost every mechanic is correlated to paths and has lore reasons for existing.. That's like saying let's ignore their ability kits because we don't see them use it in cutscenes?

It makes no sense to dictate what is less canonical or more because someone doesn't like the description or something when the source is a valid one and we gain a bunch of actual info from it. 50% of justifications come from the loading screens which is where this stuff is found too. You treat it as a source entirely or not. You can't piecemeal it for no reason.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

During the story, do they have their Eidolons? If so, how many? E1? E2? E4? E6? This is never stated anywhere. The profiles are effectively choosing arbitrary values without any supporting evidence.

Like this is actually so.... Omg. Let's treat every video game character as a level 1 character with default starter equpment without any upgrade or skill unlocked/purchased/developed cus leveling or getting new gear isn't referenced in the lore. RPG chars about to lose 95% of their hax. And mind you this isn't like equipping a random weapon. It's part of their kit.

Got rage baited again

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Game mechanics aren't universally accepted on the wiki.

Doesn't matter if they are, we know the stats ability is one of the ones that is, (it's literally in the name if it wasn't obvious enough for you) so this is a null point. At best I say change the abilities and resistances that revolve around effect res and whatnot and just slap a limited rating on it (assuming it's not 100% effect res or vice versa), arguing that they aren't actual abilities is just silly when the entire page is primarily dedicated to video game characters who do these exact things to begin with

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I agree with Eidolons and how flat values should not be used to scale in some way. but they are somewhat necessary to portray someone getting stronger in scripted fights so It should just be due diligence to actually present it in the way the story tries to. not through gameplay values
but not for talents and other stuffs

This game uses scripted fights to portray stories where in character can actually use their abilities or even tell you to use their abilities to either defend, get stronger, weaken enemies, etc
So it is something acknowledged by the story and part of its storytelling method.

As for scans for Statistic Amplification. Destruction Trailblazer Ult, amping his attacks, could be used instead of Eidolon
For Preservation, his Ult also amplifies his first skills attacks, or when shielded, his attack also gets boosted

For effect Res, I'm neutral. I have to check those out myself. but i do know Keeping up with Star Rail Owlbert also acknowledges how characters indeed has abilitiy to just resist crown control and status inducement etc

 

[IStar0thh]

Eidolons are literally canonical and so are Traces. Even leveling. Almost every mechanic is correlated to paths and has lore reasons for existing.. That's like saying let's ignore their ability kits because we don't see them use it in cutscenes?

You bring up the leveling system, which the game explicitly explains as a mechanic where enemies scale with your account progression as the story advances.

Like this is actually so.... Omg. Let's treat every video game character as a level 1 character with default starter equpment without any upgrade or skill unlocked/purchased/developed cus leveling or getting new gear isn't referenced in the lore. RPG chars about to lose 95% of their hax. And mind you this isn't like equipping a random weapon. It's part of their kit.

Got rage baited again

Yet, at the same time, you're arguing that we should assume every character has their maximum Eidolons, even though the story never establishes that.

Furthermore, please read the entire thread. I already made it clear that if a character has a specific trace or talent that grants Effect RES, I have no issue with that. A limited resistance would probably be fine.

My issue is with giving every character Effect RES simply because they're assumed to be wearing a set of random RNG relics whenever it's convenient. That shouldn't be treated as a canonical part of their profile.

And again, Honkai: Star Rail characters appear to have 0% base Effect RES

Yeah, remove them, though Light Cone is canonical thing so what gain through light cone can be kept, the rest should go if they does not get referenced in lore

Yeah, I have no problem with Light Cones. They're established in the lore and are directly associated with specific characters.