High-Godly Regeneration Reassessment

[DontTalkDT]

Thank you for helping out.

I tried to tweak your draft text a bit. Do you all find this acceptable?

Note: For High-Godly Regeneration, be sure to specify which aspect(s) the characters with this ability have been shown to regenerate from within their profile pages. For example: "High-Godly; Plot. Returned from having their Narrative Structure erased."

Sounds ok.

Since this is almost over I just wanted to ask
will plot have priority over history in terms of being able to regen narratively meaning you can regen your history

Case-by-Case. Verses may vary in how they treat such hierarchies.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Note: For High-Godly Regeneration, be sure to specify which aspect(s) the characters with this ability have been shown to regenerate from within their profile pages. For example: "High-Godly; Plot. Returned from having their Narrative Structure erased."

I'm available to apply the Note if the Regeneration page is unlocked

 

[Tanin_iver]

Sorry for intruding in a Staff discussion, I hope my input will be helpful. Please don't close this thread for a few days if possible.
I propose to change the explanation and requirements for Godly regeneration and negation. I wanted to continue with this thread instead of making a new CRT since I'm a newbie and might not be able to get the point across the first time.

Godly Regeneration

The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of the user's body or even one or more Fundamental aspects and regenerating from said aspects.

Types

---

• Low-Godly: The ability to regenerate from a fundamental aspect after the complete physical destruction of the user's body.
• Mid-Godly: The ability to regenerate from a fundamental aspect after the complete erasure of body along with said aspect.
• High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the complete erasure of body along with at least two or more fundamental aspect of a character's existence.

Fundamental Aspects of Existence

---

Which aspects are fundamental to character's existence and regeneration:

1. Narrative Existence: Place in the narrative or plot.
2. Conceptual Existence: Type 1 or 2, but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them.
3. Information Existence: Their underlying information which refers strictly to the type that shape reality (Type 2).
4. Spiritual Existence: The character's soul.
5. Mind/Mental Existence: Their mind/memories or disembodied consciousness.
6. History: Their entire history or temporal existence. [Note: Resistance to Causality Manipulation or Acausality(Type 1,2,4,5 possibly 3; I'm not sure about how it will work) may have some effects that we might have to discuss later]
7. Other: The character can have other Fundamental existences in its verse and it should be evaluated on a case by case basis.

This is just a placeholder. I will try to make a better draft by rewording and editing stuff as well as including all of your valuable input.
I will elaborate and discuss the rest of the stuff (especially Regen Negation Godly) later as its getting late in my timezone and I should go to bed.

 

[Antvasima]

Sounds ok.

Thank you for the evaluation. I think that the change can probably be applied then.

I'm available to apply the Note if the Regeneration page is unlocked

Thank you. I will unlock the Regeneration page then. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[Antvasima]

Sorry for intruding in a Staff discussion, I hope my input will be helpful. Please don't close this thread for a few days if possible.
I propose to change the explanation and requirements for Godly regeneration and negation. I wanted to continue with this thread instead of making a new CRT since I'm a newbie and might not be able to get the point across the first time.

Godly Regeneration

The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of the user's body or even one or more Fundamental aspects and regenerating from said aspects.

Types

---

• Low-Godly: The ability to regenerate from a fundamental aspect after the complete physical destruction of the user's body.
• Mid-Godly: The ability to regenerate from a fundamental aspect after the complete erasure of body along with said aspect.
• High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the complete erasure of body along with at least two or more fundamental aspect of a character's existence.

Fundamental Aspects of Existence

---

Which aspects are fundamental to character's existence and regeneration:

1. Narrative Existence: Place in the narrative or plot.
2. Conceptual Existence: Type 1 or 2, but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them.
3. Information Existence: Their underlying information which refers strictly to the type that shape reality (Type 2).
4. Spiritual Existence: The character's soul.
5. Mind/Mental Existence: Their mind/memories or disembodied consciousness.
6. History: Their entire history or temporal existence. [Note: Resistance to Causality Manipulation or Acausality(Type 1,2,4,5 possibly 3; I'm not sure about how it will work) may have some effects that we might have to discuss later]
7. Other: The character can have other Fundamental existences in its verse and it should be evaluated on a case by case basis.

This is just a placeholder. I will try to make a better draft by rewording and editing stuff as well as including all of your valuable input.
I will elaborate and discuss the rest of the stuff (especially Regen Negation Godly) later as its getting late in my timezone and I should go to bed.

@DontTalkDT

What do you think about this?

 

[DontTalkDT]

I think our current system works and it makes few sense to treat the soul alongside the other more fundamental aspects which can remain even after the complete erasure of the individual.
While souls are spiritual in nature they are less abstract/fundamental than the other aspects. The physical destruction -> spiritual destruction -> abstract destruction system makes more sense. If your soul remained after erasure of a more fundamental aspect you just weren't actually erased to begin with.
To that comes that it's a big change for very little reason.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Thank you. I will unlock the Regeneration page then. Tell me here when you are done.

Added

 

[Antvasima]

I think our current system works and it makes few sense to treat the soul alongside the other more fundamental aspects which can remain even after the complete erasure of the individual.
While souls are spiritual in nature they are less abstract/fundamental than the other aspects. The physical destruction -> spiritual destruction -> abstract destruction system makes more sense. If your soul remained after erasure of a more fundamental aspect you just weren't actually erased to begin with.
To that comes that it's a big change for very little reason.

Agreed. Thank you for the evaluation.

Added

Thank you for helping out. I think that we can probably close this thread then.

Thank you to everybody who helped out here.

 

[Tanin_iver]

Agreed. Thank you for the evaluation.

Thank you for helping out. I think that we can probably close this thread then.

Thank you to everybody who helped out here.

I would like to clarify my position and make some counter arguments so could you please keep this thread a little longer before closing

 

[Tanin_iver]

Sorry for intruding in a Staff discussion, I hope my input will be helpful. Please don't close this thread for a few days if possible.
I propose to change the explanation and requirements for Godly regeneration and negation. I wanted to continue with this thread instead of making a new CRT since I'm a newbie and might not be able to get the point across the first time.

Godly Regeneration

The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of the user's body or even one or more Fundamental aspects and regenerating from said aspects.

Types

---

• Low-Godly: The ability to regenerate from a fundamental aspect after the complete physical destruction of the user's body.
• Mid-Godly: The ability to regenerate from a fundamental aspect after the complete erasure of body along with said aspect.
• High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the complete erasure of body along with at least two or more fundamental aspect of a character's existence.

Fundamental Aspects of Existence

---

Which aspects are fundamental to character's existence and regeneration:

1. Narrative Existence: Place in the narrative or plot.
2. Conceptual Existence: Type 1 or 2, but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them.
3. Information Existence: Their underlying information which refers strictly to the type that shape reality (Type 2).
4. Spiritual Existence: The character's soul.
5. Mind/Mental Existence: Their mind/memories or disembodied consciousness.
6. History: Their entire history or temporal existence. [Note: Resistance to Causality Manipulation or Acausality(Type 1,2,4,5 possibly 3; I'm not sure about how it will work) may have some effects that we might have to discuss later]
7. Other: The character can have other Fundamental existences in its verse and it should be evaluated on a case by case basis.

This is just a placeholder. I will try to make a better draft by rewording and editing stuff as well as including all of your valuable input.
I will elaborate and discuss the rest of the stuff (especially Regen Negation Godly) later as its getting late in my timezone and I should go to bed.

As regeneration is linked to other powers like Immortality (Type 3) we should look carefully into it and make considerations. As this is an indexing site we should be able to index as much information as concisely as possible and look into every facets of its powers and how it will affect a VS match.

First I would like to simplify the types of godly regen in my system so that its easier to understand -

• Low-Godly: Regeneration from the Fundamental Aspect(abbv. FA) after the complete physical destruction of the body but not the FA itself.
• Mid-Godly: Regeneration from the FA after the complete physical destruction of the body as well as the FA.
• High-Godly: Regeneration from FAs after the complete physical destruction of the body as well as multiple (more than one) FA.

The types basically denote the extent of the feat
And the system of Regeneration Negation Godly (Types [Specify here]).

Now, let's continue with the discussion then.

The physical destruction -> spiritual destruction -> abstract destruction system makes more sense.

Yes, I agree with u on this and it will be assumed as the default in the new system. However, not all verses treat it the same way like say the Souls in DMC where the souls are the most fundamental aspect and it contains things like concepts, mind and memories, information and names. As u can see already not every verse is the same and I will elaborate more with a few examples.

First let's take an example where the old system works-

1. Let's say a character A has Low-Godly regen as he can regenerate even after the complete destruction of his physical body as long as people remembers him or he is in their memories. So with the old system of HGR it works perfectly fine. So if a character B has say HGR of Conceptual and/or info and/or plot and/or even one that erases from history is perfectly capable of negating character A's regen.
2. In the new sytem it would be just that A has Low-Godly(Type 7, regens as long as people remembers him or is in their memories) and B has Regen Neg Godly (Type 2 and/or 3 and/or 6)

And now let's take a different example-
Character A comes from a verse where the soul is stated to be the most fundamental aspect even more than Info or concept. And character B has HGR of concept and/or info but the verse itself has nothing to do with souls and spirituality at all only aspects like say info or concept. Now comes the tricky part.

• Character A has Low-Godly while character B has HGR. What happens?
• Character A has Mid-Godly while character B has HGR. What happens?

1. In the old system HGR will simply negate the Low-Godly or Mid-Godly even tho Character B has no feats of interacting with souls. In a vesus thread someone will see HGR in profile for character B and give him a wincon even tho he shouldn't have one aas such because of how both the verses treat their stuff.
2. However, in the new system A simply has Low-Godly(Type 4) or Mid-Godly(Type 4) and B has Regen Negation Godly (RNG) which doesn't have any classification like Low, Mid or High just types based on feats. So, B has RNG (Type 2 and/or 3) in this system. So B directly isn't superior to A as he can't truly get past A's (Type 4) regen because of lack of feats.

This new system will work similar to how immortality works. If B has feats of dealing with immortality of one type while A himself is another type, then B cannot negate A's immortality without feats. Same with this new more elaborate and easier to identify system of Godly regen and its negation.
As we can see feats are important and a proper way to index them on a case by case basis as verses may treat their hierarchies differently.

 

[Tanin_iver]

Sorry for intruding in a Staff discussion, I hope my input will be helpful. Please don't close this thread for a few days if possible.
I propose to change the explanation and requirements for Godly regeneration and negation. I wanted to continue with this thread instead of making a new CRT since I'm a newbie and might not be able to get the point across the first time.

Godly Regeneration

The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of the user's body or even one or more Fundamental aspects and regenerating from said aspects.

Types

---

• Low-Godly: The ability to regenerate from a fundamental aspect after the complete physical destruction of the user's body.
• Mid-Godly: The ability to regenerate from a fundamental aspect after the complete erasure of body along with said aspect.
• High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the complete erasure of body along with at least two or more fundamental aspect of a character's existence.

Fundamental Aspects of Existence

---

Which aspects are fundamental to character's existence and regeneration:

1. Narrative Existence: Place in the narrative or plot.
2. Conceptual Existence: Type 1 or 2, but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them.
3. Information Existence: Their underlying information which refers strictly to the type that shape reality (Type 2).
4. Spiritual Existence: The character's soul.
5. Mind/Mental Existence: Their mind/memories or disembodied consciousness.
6. History: Their entire history or temporal existence. [Note: Resistance to Causality Manipulation or Acausality(Type 1,2,4,5 possibly 3; I'm not sure about how it will work) may have some effects that we might have to discuss later]
7. Other: The character can have other Fundamental existences in its verse and it should be evaluated on a case by case basis.

This is just a placeholder. I will try to make a better draft by rewording and editing stuff as well as including all of your valuable input.
I will elaborate and discuss the rest of the stuff (especially Regen Negation Godly) later as its getting late in my timezone and I should go to bed.

This is just a rough draft of the idea I'm trying to present. I made this in a hurry, polish is needed obviously and more staff input and discussion will be helpful to improve it.

 

[Vietthai96]

Yes, I agree with u on this and it will be assumed as the default in the new system. However, not all verses treat it the same way like say the Souls in DMC where the souls are the most fundamental aspect and it contains things like concepts, mind and memories, information and names. As u can see already not every verse is the same and I will elaborate more with a few examples.

This is just case by case basis, why should we change a system because of 1 or 2 verse, which honestly said problem is already being covered by High Godly since soul contain fundamental aspect such as Concept or Information, or to simplify, the verse skip Mid Godly step

First I would like to simplify the types of godly regen in my system so that its easier to understand -

• Low-Godly: Regeneration from the Fundamental Aspect(abbv. FA) after the complete physical destruction of the body but not the FA itself.
• Mid-Godly: Regeneration from the FA after the complete physical destruction of the body as well as the FA.
• High-Godly: Regeneration from FAs after the complete physical destruction of the body as well as multiple (more than one) FA.

Completely redundant and unnecessary, Low Godly is being covered by regen from complete physcial body destruction, which obviously mean fundamental aspect did not involve. And it is just current High Godly. And i don't even know why your version of High Godly being mattered here, because it is just another current High Godly but regen from multiple fundamental aspects erasure, which can easily be done via actually listing and explaining on the profile which is the most important thing when it come to profile itself, also your system make it like regen from only 1 aspect erasure being inferior to regen from more than 2 aapects erasure which in reality regen from more aspect erasure just mean your High Godly being more versatile

And now let's take a different example-
Character A comes from a verse where the soul is stated to be the most fundamental aspect even more than Info or concept. And character B has HGR of concept and/or info but the verse itself has nothing to do with souls and spirituality at all only aspects like say info or concept. Now comes the tricky part.

While i can understand what you thinking, that it case by case basis depend on the verse, unless you want to equalize soul with anything fundamental like concept or info which in turn wreck verse that treat soul inferior to concept or info. And like i said above, verse that treat soul being equal to concept and info will skip Mid Godly, or their concept or info is not fundamental enough to get High Godly, which we have concept type 3 to cover less fundamental abstract

 

[Antvasima]

What do the rest of our staff here think? Has this discussion been sufficiently concluded to close it now, or is there anything relevant left to do here?

 

[Vietthai96]

What do the rest of our staff here think? Has this discussion been sufficiently concluded to close it now, or is there anything relevant left to do here?

Honestly, with both DT and me already refuted Tanin argument and Maverick already applied the revision, i don't think there is anything left to do. However i think it is reasonable if we let Tanin speak his case and possibly DT want to reply

 

[Antvasima]

Well, DontTalk is extremely busy, so I don't think that further bothering him here seems appropriate.

 

[Tanin_iver]

This is just case by case basis, why should we change a system because of 1 or 2 verse, which honestly said problem is already being covered by High Godly since soul contain fundamental aspect such as Concept or Information, or to simplify, the verse skip Mid Godly step

I think u misunderstood me, I gave DMC as an example for a verse where Soul> and contains other Fundamental aspects itself, basically a different hierarchy then our standard assumptions. Hence, why it already has HGR and HGR negation. I never said or implied DMC has any problem with the current system.

Completely redundant and unnecessary, Low Godly is being covered by regen from complete physcial body destruction, which obviously mean fundamental aspect did not involve.

My version of Low-Godly is the same as the current Low-Godly. If my version is redundant, than the current one will be considered redundant as well. Infact my version of all the Godly regens are the same. Only thing I am proposing is denoting the FA along with the type and not always defaulting to any one type of FA like soul as it is in the current system.
Talking about redundancy, u might have already noticed my first example

First let's take an example where the old system works-

1. Let's say a character A has Low-Godly regen as he can regenerate even after the complete destruction of his physical body as long as people remembers him or he is in their memories. So with the old system of HGR it works perfectly fine. So if a character B has say HGR of Conceptual and/or info and/or plot and/or even one that erases from history is perfectly capable of negating character A's regen.
2. In the new sytem it would be just that A has Low-Godly(Type 7, regens as long as people remembers him or is in their memories) and B has Regen Neg Godly (Type 2 and/or 3 and/or 6)

This one, what will u call character A's regen? Just High and/or Immo Type 8? Then we will basically be abusing Immo 8 in Low-Godly scenarios.

And it is just current High Godly. And i don't even know why your version of High Godly being mattered here, because it is just another current High Godly but regen from multiple fundamental aspects erasure, which can easily be done via actually listing and explaining on the profile which is the most important thing when it come to profile itself, also your system make it like regen from only 1 aspect erasure being inferior to regen from more than 2 aapects erasure which in reality regen from more aspect erasure just mean your High Godly being more versatile

Yeah you are kind of right, we can easily merge Mid-Godly and High-Godly. But that will be the same case for the current system as well. You are right that Low Mid and High may give an incorrect impression at first but it is primarily to denote the extent of their feats as well as their versatility as u said. Basically when someone see a characters profile their impressions should be-

• Low-Godly[Specified type]: Oh, so the character has regened from its specified FA after complete destruction of its body.
• Mid-Godly[Specified type]: Oh, so the character has regened even after complete destruction of its body and specified FA.
• High-Godly[Specified type]: Oh, so the character has regened even after complete destruction of its body and specified FAs.

The intention is to make the system more versatile and flexible and be able to index even the most wackiest of edge cases. Although in my system we will assume the first three aspects as superior by default it however will provide wiggle room for other FAs and edge cases.

 

[Tanin_iver]

Honestly, with both DT and me already refuted Tanin argument and Maverick already applied the revision, i don't think there is anything left to do. However i think it is reasonable if we let Tanin speak his case and possibly DT want to reply

Thank u so much for the opportunity. I might be a bit late in my next replies as I will be a bit busy. So, please consider waiting a bit and consider my case.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Just a question before this thread is closed. If someone has one form of high godly (concept) and another has another form of high godly (information). We won't assume one is superior to the other unless one of their verse specifies thar one is superior or inferior to the other whether (concept>info or info>concept). Is that correct?

 

[Vietthai96]

Just a question before this thread is closed. If someone has one form of high godly (concept) and another has another form of high godly (information). We won't assume one is superior to the other unless one of their verse specifies thar one is superior or inferior to the other whether (concept>info or info>concept). Is that correct?

unless the verse specific about it, Info and Concept are incomparable

I think u misunderstood me, I gave DMC as an example for a verse where Soul> and contains other Fundamental aspects itself, basically a different hierarchy then our standard assumptions. Hence, why it already has HGR and HGR negation. I never said or implied DMC has any problem with the current system.

What i mean is, case by case basis

My version of Low-Godly is the same as the current Low-Godly. If my version is redundant, than the current one will be considered redundant as well. Infact my version of all the Godly regens are the same. Only thing I am proposing is denoting the FA along with the type and not always defaulting to any one type of FA like soul as it is in the current system.
Talking about redundancy, u might have already noticed my first example

I'm not specifically saying only Low Godly is redundant, what i mean is the entire premise of your proposal.

Yeah you are kind of right, we can easily merge Mid-Godly and High-Godly. But that will be the same case for the current system as well. You are right that Low Mid and High may give an incorrect impression at first but it is primarily to denote the extent of their feats as well as their versatility as u said. Basically when someone see a characters profile their impressions should be-

• Low-Godly[Specified type]: Oh, so the character has regened from its specified FA after complete destruction of its body.
• Mid-Godly[Specified type]: Oh, so the character has regened even after complete destruction of its body and specified FA.
• High-Godly[Specified type]: Oh, so the character has regened even after complete destruction of its body and specified FAs.

The intention is to make the system more versatile and flexible and be able to index even the most wackiest of edge cases. Although in my system we will assume the first three aspects as superior by default it however will provide wiggle room for other FAs and edge cases.

Exactly why your proposal is redundant, unnecessary and make no sense at all

• Low Godly: Why specific into type? Low Godly doesn't even involve non-corporeal part of existence like soul or even fundamental aspect, you make like character can only low godly regen from specific fundamental aspect despite the fact that Low Godly doesn't even involve fundamental aspect to begin with. if character regen from complete physical destruction then Low Godly, no more. Even if we follow your proposal, how do you evaluate verse that fundametal aspect like concept or information doesn't even exist???
• Mid Godly: again this is just current High Godly and you completely throw soul and mind out which i will address below
• High Godly: redundant, because this is just current High Godly, if anything i already said, regen from complete erasure of 1 fundamental aspect is still the same as regen from complete erasure of multiple fundamental aspects, the only different is, regen from complete erasure of mutiple fundamental aspects mean you regeneration have less limitation and being more versatile, not somehow make it superior to regen from complete erasure of 1 fundamental aspect. Which in the end, we still need to explain in detail on the profile, that what matter

Now time to address the biggest flaw: you throw Soul and Mind out of the equation make no sense, soul and mind are still part of one existence, like what @DontTalkDT said, if those thing still exist mean character didn't actually get completely erased which totally defeat the intention of regeneration from fundamental aspects erasure, because

To be brutal your proposal doesn't make the system more versatile and flexible at all, it make the system more convoluted, a random mess

 

[Tatsumi504]

I think u misunderstood me, I gave DMC as an example for a verse where Soul> and contains other Fundamental aspects itself, basically a different hierarchy then our standard assumptions. Hence, why it already has HGR and HGR negation. I never said or implied DMC has any problem with the current system.

My version of Low-Godly is the same as the current Low-Godly. If my version is redundant, than the current one will be considered redundant as well. Infact my version of all the Godly regens are the same. Only thing I am proposing is denoting the FA along with the type and not always defaulting to any one type of FA like soul as it is in the current system.
Talking about redundancy, u might have already noticed my first example

This one, what will u call character A's regen? Just High and/or Immo Type 8? Then we will basically be abusing Immo 8 in Low-Godly scenarios.

Yeah you are kind of right, we can easily merge Mid-Godly and High-Godly. But that will be the same case for the current system as well. You are right that Low Mid and High may give an incorrect impression at first but it is primarily to denote the extent of their feats as well as their versatility as u said. Basically when someone see a characters profile their impressions should be-

• Low-Godly[Specified type]: Oh, so the character has regened from its specified FA after complete destruction of its body.
• Mid-Godly[Specified type]: Oh, so the character has regened even after complete destruction of its body and specified FA.
• High-Godly[Specified type]: Oh, so the character has regened even after complete destruction of its body and specified FAs.

The intention is to make the system more versatile and flexible and be able to index even the most wackiest of edge cases. Although in my system we will assume the first three aspects as superior by default it however will provide wiggle room for other FAs and edge cases.

The fact is none of this clashes with the current standards.

Your case with the Low-Godly is just Low-Godly+ immortality type 8.

The case about souls being as fundamental as/ more fundamental than info, concept, plot etc makes no difference either. The verse where this happens skips Mid-godly regen altogether and goes straight to High-godly regen and only HGR negation will be capable of negating their regen.

Furthermore, like DT already mentioned recently, specifying these aspects will lead to more issues with specific verse mechanics that don't involve concepts, info, plot etc.

I understand your point but i just don't think it's necessary

 

[Tanin_iver]

Now time to address the biggest flaw: you throw Soul and Mind out of the equation make no sense, soul and mind are still part of one existence, like what @DontTalkDT said, if those thing still exist mean character didn't actually get completely erased which totally defeat the intention of regeneration from fundamental aspects erasure, because

The biggest flaw in the current system is exactly that. We assume Soul and Mind are part of one existence for every verse even tho it is not necessarily specified by the verse. It can be anything, fictions don't always follow such set standards. A verse may not even have anything to do with any metaphysical or spiritual aspects at all and may just deal with conceptual stuff or say a verse is based on some simulation analogy and only deals with info manip and that is its fundamental aspect. Then why would we assume it to have Soul and mind as part of its existence. Infact, for such a verse there is no Mid-Godly only Low-Godly and High-Godly if character regens from info destruction. And the definition as its regen page says for Low-Godly wouldn't be accurate since it mentions "restoring it from their disembodied consciousness, whether that be their soul, mind, some other nonphysical aspect of themself, esoteric or metaphysical energy, or something else."

Exactly why your proposal is redundant, unnecessary and make no sense at all

• Low Godly: Why specific into type? Low Godly doesn't even involve non-corporeal part of existence like soul or even fundamental aspect, you make like character can only low godly regen from specific fundamental aspect despite the fact that Low Godly doesn't even involve fundamental aspect to begin with. if character regen from complete physical destruction then Low Godly, no more. Even if we follow your proposal, how do you evaluate verse that fundametal aspect like concept or information doesn't even exist???
• Mid Godly: again this is just current High Godly and you completely throw soul and mind out which i will address below
• High Godly: redundant, because this is just current High Godly, if anything i already said, regen from complete erasure of 1 fundamental aspect is still the same as regen from complete erasure of multiple fundamental aspects, the only different is, regen from complete erasure of mutiple fundamental aspects mean you regeneration have less limitation and being more versatile, not somehow make it superior to regen from complete erasure of 1 fundamental aspect. Which in the end, we still need to explain in detail on the profile, that what matter

And now lets take another example-
A verse exists where N(a placeholder name) is the most Fundamental Aspect of existence even above concept and info although N doesn't contain them. Infact affecting N only affects N and nothing regarding concept and info. Concepts and info also cannot affect N. Also, it doesn't have anything related to mind or soul as part of existence as specified in verse. Now, a character X regens from complete physical destruction and the verse specifically says that he regens because of N. Now he fights against a character Y who has HGR neg which has concept and info.

Now the question is explain to me how will X's regen be treated in the current system? And will Y's HGR negging negate X's regen in the current system?
Because if X is only Low-Godly in profile then it will just be Y's HGR neg GG.

I mostly have an issue as to how we will index in profiles, that's all there is.

 

[Tatsumi504]

A verse may not even have anything to do with any metaphysical or spiritual aspects at all and may just deal with conceptual stuff or say a verse is based on some simulation analogy and only deals with info manip and that is its fundamental aspect. Then why would we assume it to have Soul and mind as part of its existence. Infact, for such a verse there is no Mid-Godly only Low-Godly and High-Godly if character regens from info destruction. And the definition as its regen page says for Low-Godly wouldn't be accurate since it mentions "restoring it from their disembodied consciousness, whether that be their soul, mind, some other nonphysical aspect of themself, esoteric or metaphysical energy, or something else."

They get MGR by default. Take Maou gakuin as an example. There's no mention of regenerating from mind or soul so regenerating with their concept gives them MGR so current standards still handles this easily. They simply skip LGR and get MGR.

Now the question is explain to me how will X's regen be treated in the current system? And will Y's HGR negging negate X's regen in the current system?
Because if X is only Low-Godly in profile

Still no problems with the current standards either. It's possible to have concepts, info, plot that are greater than other concepts, info and plot.

In any case, if (N) is the most fundamental aspect and its confirmed that their concept, info, etc wasn't destroyed then regenerating because of (N) is simply immortality type 4 & 8.

If concept, info etc is confirmed to be destroyed then they get HGR + possible resistance to HGR negation depending on how fundamental (N) is portrayed in verse. If it's that the ability to negate regeneration from concept destruction can't negate regeneration from (N) then it qualifies as resistance to HGR neg for (N). If its not portrayed this way then once again, its just immortality type 8.

 

[Tanin_iver]

They get MGR by default. Take Maou gakuin as an example. There's no mention of regenerating from mind or soul so regenerating with their concept gives them MGR so current standards still handles this easily. They simply skip LGR and get MGR.

Hold on so u mean like a character can get a higher rating for a feat it didn't even do because the verse's mechanics doesn't even allow for such a feat to be accomplished in the first place. I mean shouldn't Maou Gaukin just be LGR feat wise because they merely Regen from physical destruction and not MGR since they don't have said feat according to the regen page atleast. I think the regen page should clarify about such feats which actually qualify for MGR and not just LGR.

Still no problems with the current standards either. It's possible to have concepts, info, plot that are greater than other concepts, info and plot.

In any case, if (N) is the most fundamental aspect and its confirmed that their concept, info, etc wasn't destroyed then regenerating because of (N) is simply immortality type 4 & 8.

They wouldn't qualify for Immo 4 because they are not dead and they have a fundamental existence i.e N which still exists. So they are not Resurrecting let alone reincarnating. And regarding Immo 8 -

clears throat*

8: Reliant Immortality: The character gets benefited by 1 or more other types of Immortality as long as a certain being, object, place and/or concept or more may grant them those benefits, losing them otherwise. What exactly a user is reliant over, the benefits given from it, and how the process of the ability operates must be explained. Simply having some weakness that will kill a character when exploited doesn't qualify if it doesn't grant a form of Immortality, and also having other powers that do grant Immortality but are unrelated to that weakness does not count as well. It is discouraged to list this type if it would be redundant due to the same power already being described in another ability of the profile.

Need I say more. We, are indexing stuff differently for near identical feats. The working principle behind the feat is the same only the verses treat one greater than the other. This is only because of the current rigid system which doesn't have the flexibility to consider other aspects as fundamental. If it did we won't have to go through such hoops.
In the system I was proposing -

• It is just Low-Godly(Type 7, regens from complete physical destruction from N which is its most fundamental aspect) for character X.
• For the character from the simulation verse example I gave, let him just be Z. His regen would be Low-Godly(Type 3, regens from complete physical destruction from his information which is its most fundamental aspect).
• For the characters from the Maou Gakuin verse their regen would be Low-Godly(Type 2, regens from complete physical destruction from their concept which is its most fundamental aspect).

As u can see, no disparity in the way we index things for identical powers and no need to go through extra hoops.

Now the question is explain to me how will X's regen be treated in the current system? And will Y's HGR negging negate X's regen in the current system?
Because if X is only Low-Godly in profile then it will just be Y's HGR neg GG.

Now let's consider that Y also has Immo 8 negation because it has a feat of beating another character's existence but that itself is not a fundamental aspect in-verse.
So, now in a versus matchup supporters of X will also have to go through the extra effort of explaining that Y's HGR neg is not enough because of X's Immo 8, even tho Y also has a feat of Immo 8 negging even that is not enough because it is as fundamental as Y's information. And due to the Regen page still not clarifying about the hierarchial stuff that some verses may consider one aspect superior to other aspect even the ones we consider by default more superior in the wiki. This, will lead to supporters of Y not taking the views of supporters of X seriously. This will lead to incorrect conclusions in vs matchups or they will reach no conclusion at all.
I don't even have to say about how many incorrect conclusions new visitors of the wiki will have.
As an indexing wiki, I believe that we should index stuff more uniformly with less disparity for similar feats instead of going through extra effort which maybe technically possible with current standards. We should have flexible systems which are more inclusive to more verses instead of them being sidelined.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Hold on so u mean like a character can get a higher rating for a feat it didn't even do because the verse's mechanics doesn't even allow for such a feat to be accomplished in the first place. I mean shouldn't Maou Gaukin just be LGR feat wise because they merely Regen from physical destruction and not MGR since they don't have said feat according to the regen page atleast. I think the regen page should clarify about such feats which actually qualify for MGR and not just LGR.

I used Maou Gakuin as an example. They are specifically stated to be regenerating from their source (concept) that exists deeper than the mind, soul so it fits your analogy, they're skipping LGR and get MGR.

So, now in a versus matchup supporters of X will also have to go through the extra effort of explaining that Y's HGR neg is not enough because of X's Immo 8, even tho Y also has a feat of Immo 8 negging even that is not enough because it is as fundamental as Y's information.

Let me correct you here. Being reliant on an ordinary object or a fundamental abstract doesn't affect immortality 8 negation in anyway. If you have feat of negging type 8 reliant on a rock,you can neg another type 8 reliant on a concept and vice versa.
Additionally, there's nothing wrong with explaining it in a versus match up or on the profiles in the first place. The current regeneration page is more or less perfect from my perspective as both it and the different immortality types already handle all these possible scenarios you're proposing.

That's my opinion on it anyway. Other members/ staff may show interest in this so you'll probably just have to wait or better yet start a new thread as a conclusion has been reached and applied for the main proposal in this one.

 

[Tanin_iver]

I used Maou Gakuin as an example. They are specifically stated to be regenerating from their source (concept) that exists deeper than the mind, soul so it fits your analogy, they're skipping LGR and get MGR.

I understand your intention. The regen page should clarify about such cases when it should be MGR instead of LGR. I had no idea it worked this way.

Let me correct you here. Being reliant on an ordinary object or a fundamental abstract doesn't affect immortality 8 negation in anyway. If you have feat of negging type 8 reliant on a rock,you can neg another type 8 reliant on a concept and vice versa.

Ohh, I didn't know that it worked this way. But aren't some Immo 8 more broken then others?? Treating them the same feels unintuitive. But I guess standardising the feats would be better I suppose. Otherwise it might get more messy.
Is it also the same for negging all the other types of Immo?

Additionally, there's nothing wrong with explaining it in a versus match up or on the profiles in the first place.

I agree that it isn't wrong per se, but when u have disparity in the way we index some feats, the efforts to explain said feats increases. When we have have more uniform ways of indexing stats it's a bit better.
Like in the examples I gave, one has just MGR while the other has MGR + immo 8 for near identical feats. And even giving Immo 8 in this case kind of feels weird and silly since, N is actually a part of its own existence. It's like saying you are Immortal because you are reliant on your body.

The current regeneration page is more or less perfect from my perspective as both it and the different immortality types already handle all these possible scenarios you're proposing.

I will confess I had some misunderstandings and misconceptions regarding some of the stuff. I think it's best to clear some of my queries in a Q & A thread.

Other members/ staff may show interest in this so you'll probably just have to wait or better yet start a new thread as a conclusion has been reached and applied for the main proposal in this one.

None of the Staff have replied yet and the thread has been more or less concluded. I feel like it's better to just close this thread rather than wait for them. I'd rather clear my queries about the current systems first and if need be pursue my case in a new thread.

 

[Antvasima]

So should I close this thread now?

 

[Tanin_iver]

Yes, I suppose. Since, none of the other staff have shown any interest or responded yet. It's best to close it. If need be we will make a new thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will do so then. Thank you to everybody who helped out here.