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High End vs Todoroki Round 2 (Grace)
- Thread starter Insert_creative_name_here_12
- Start date
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- #42
I really don't care if he gets a victory or not on this but as you've said his jets produce heat and his ice wall can't take High End out so what are his win cons
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The jets wont produce enough heat to instantly melt all the ice, just prevent him from being incapped completely.
He can use flash fire to vaporise the head. Its the exact same move Endeavor used. But problem is, Todoroki wouldn't know, nor is as analytical to figure it out as quickly. Its still a win-con though.
He can use flash fire to vaporise the head. Its the exact same move Endeavor used. But problem is, Todoroki wouldn't know, nor is as analytical to figure it out as quickly. Its still a win-con though.
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- #44
If his jets prevent him from being incapped totally then he can't be beat since he'd eventually break out and the match continues.
Todoroki hasn't really shown use of flash fire not to mention his maximum flames are most likely comparable to base Endeavour's flames
Todoroki hasn't really shown use of flash fire not to mention his maximum flames are most likely comparable to base Endeavour's flames
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Incapped long enough for Todoroki to use a finishing move, then yeah.
He has, in the Class 1-A and 1-B arc, where he was physically about to melt Tetsutetsu. He has his Flashfreeze Heatwave too that should be easily non-held back since Todoroki's target is just that of a Noumu. There are wincons.
He has, in the Class 1-A and 1-B arc, where he was physically about to melt Tetsutetsu. He has his Flashfreeze Heatwave too that should be easily non-held back since Todoroki's target is just that of a Noumu. There are wincons.
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- #46
The heat he used against Tetsutetsu wasn't flashfire as far as I know it was just the max heat he could manifest. Flashfreeze is blunt force and it's unknown in power.
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> then whats the point of making calcs and basing them off real life laws of physics?
There is a difference between putting calcs for the stuff chars do in storys and looking for how strong they are for the fun of it and putting ones own interpretation and guesswork into a chars powerset. You say that high-ends jets create heat which has no foundation in the manga aside from you stating that real life jets do that, but this series took liberties on science a lot of times already so insisting it doesnt do it now wont work.
> this quirk was originally from a human after all.
Quirks can all sorts of powers, there is even the power that turns stamina into some sort of spiral energy. Just because its from a human doesnt mean it burns fuel.
> Do you know what does though?
A unknown something. Could be combustion, could be energy from transforming stamina, could be things like koichis power. The important point is, we dont know.
And frankly, this discussion is getting boring, it wont change the outcome anyway so i will not respond to this anymore.
High-end kills todoroki since he can keep up with endeavor, who is a pro hero and from the latest chapters he proved he was faster than them by a ton, so that means todoroki is outmatched by speed anyway.
There is a difference between putting calcs for the stuff chars do in storys and looking for how strong they are for the fun of it and putting ones own interpretation and guesswork into a chars powerset. You say that high-ends jets create heat which has no foundation in the manga aside from you stating that real life jets do that, but this series took liberties on science a lot of times already so insisting it doesnt do it now wont work.
> this quirk was originally from a human after all.
Quirks can all sorts of powers, there is even the power that turns stamina into some sort of spiral energy. Just because its from a human doesnt mean it burns fuel.
> Do you know what does though?
A unknown something. Could be combustion, could be energy from transforming stamina, could be things like koichis power. The important point is, we dont know.
And frankly, this discussion is getting boring, it wont change the outcome anyway so i will not respond to this anymore.
High-end kills todoroki since he can keep up with endeavor, who is a pro hero and from the latest chapters he proved he was faster than them by a ton, so that means todoroki is outmatched by speed anyway.
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High End FRA
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Its all literally burning things. High-end got vaporized by Prominence Burn, and while i suppose Shouto aint as strong, he was still melting things down. High-End isnt gonna just walk through the fire like its nothing, and if his head gets too close, which he can especally with incogs, then i dont think
Stomps aren't even necessarily no win-cons as long as they work within the APs most of the time. Just because theres a stronger point for one side to win over the other doesnt make it a stomp, especially when Todoroki has Low 7-C ice he could just encase him in. Give Todoroki that L
Stomps aren't even necessarily no win-cons as long as they work within the APs most of the time. Just because theres a stronger point for one side to win over the other doesnt make it a stomp, especially when Todoroki has Low 7-C ice he could just encase him in. Give Todoroki that L
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- #50
Weren't you just saying Todoroki's ice isn't actually Low 7-C? A fight in which one character has absolutely no chance of winning is a stomp
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Todoroki does have a chance at winning though. Its just very very slim.
Hs ice energy output is Low 7-C, but that alone is unlikely to stop High-End completely. He isn't going to brush it off like its nothing either, ice can actually slow his regen since it freezes the cells he relies on to regenerate.
Hs ice energy output is Low 7-C, but that alone is unlikely to stop High-End completely. He isn't going to brush it off like its nothing either, ice can actually slow his regen since it freezes the cells he relies on to regenerate.
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- #52
Nomu have previously displayed they can regenerate fro, being frozen and losing limbs.
What is Todoroki's wincon? His 8B attacks wont cut it, his Low 7C isn't actually that strong and everything else is too weak.
What is Todoroki's wincon? His 8B attacks wont cut it, his Low 7C isn't actually that strong and everything else is too weak.
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@GreatestSin
And because i dont think i should bother trying to get to you, i wont reply to that all, however i will say that its you assuming that High-End is using some other form of energy to try and dismantle the fact of his jets producing heats, when they're literally based off of combustion jets mounted into shoulders. A lot of quirks are based off these sorts of things too. Like Engine, again.
And because i dont think i should bother trying to get to you, i wont reply to that all, however i will say that its you assuming that High-End is using some other form of energy to try and dismantle the fact of his jets producing heats, when they're literally based off of combustion jets mounted into shoulders. A lot of quirks are based off these sorts of things too. Like Engine, again.
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My boi HighEnd FRA
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@jinx
One last time: quirks can be anything. Just because some have that kind of combustion doesnt mean some other quirk will, you cant just put your impression of how a power works into a chars powerset.
> High-End isnt gonna just walk through the fire like its nothing, and if his head gets too close, which he can especally with incogs, then i dont think
There wont be any fire in the first place. Endeavor was a lot faster than shouto, and highend kept up with endeavor, so by very simple scaling that means highend would just blitz shouto easily.
One last time: quirks can be anything. Just because some have that kind of combustion doesnt mean some other quirk will, you cant just put your impression of how a power works into a chars powerset.
> High-End isnt gonna just walk through the fire like its nothing, and if his head gets too close, which he can especally with incogs, then i dont think
There wont be any fire in the first place. Endeavor was a lot faster than shouto, and highend kept up with endeavor, so by very simple scaling that means highend would just blitz shouto easily.
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Quirks can be anythng, but unless otherwise stated or shown, they still obey the laws of Physics, and are based, like this quirk, on real life mechanisms. How would it be an impression when its literally based on combustion jets and not stated to rely on another fuel source. Even so, that wouldt deny there would be Thermal energy within the jets, because thats the biproduct.
Speed-Equalised.
Speed-Equalised.
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@Jinx
Forgot the speed equal part, highend still has better healing/stamina and power.
> Quirks can be anythng, but unless otherwise stated or shown, they still obey the laws of Physics
Was this a thing? Can a mod confirm that this is the accepted way quirks/powers are handled around here?
> How would it be an impression when its literally based on combustion jets
Its based on jets, you just put in combustion and say its the only source that makes sense despite the fact that it could just be a unknown energy, and we dont know if that energy-release creates heat.
Forgot the speed equal part, highend still has better healing/stamina and power.
> Quirks can be anythng, but unless otherwise stated or shown, they still obey the laws of Physics
Was this a thing? Can a mod confirm that this is the accepted way quirks/powers are handled around here?
> How would it be an impression when its literally based on combustion jets
Its based on jets, you just put in combustion and say its the only source that makes sense despite the fact that it could just be a unknown energy, and we dont know if that energy-release creates heat.
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Its not up to the mods to decide, its up to Horikoshi
There a quirks that can go against scientific laws, however its still based on a world like ours, and includes scientific principles. Only now, there are exceptions. Again, Momo's quirk is pretty much existant and proves my point, a smilar based quirk in Engine works the exact way a car engine would, which requires combustion from the fuel in Iida's energy sources.
The main point is, you cant say, when this is how quirks like Engine operate, that, unless otherwise stated, the only way a quirk is powered is through the users energy. People in MHA still require sustenance unless its based off a quirk, which from food, water whatever, gives them that energy. Therefore, High-Ends quirk and his shoulder jets as a part of his body, require that of a fuel source, and much like the mutant quirk it is, similar to engine, thats most definitely coming from the use of energy. If Horikoshi wanted us to note how the quirk works, he would have told us, but other than that we can make safe assumptions based off what we know about mutant quirks like Shoulder Mounted Jets. Meanwhile, your claim that they're air or water jets is much, much more baseless. Jets produce thermal energy as they burn. What are you assuming now? That the jets use a frictionless power source that creates no heat? Because thats impossible and would be stated
It is the only source. Airplanes dont rely on air or water, and ive already proved why it cant be those sorts of jets. It literally is the only one that makes sense
All energy transfers create heat. Jets require a lot of power, and therefore more burning of fuel is needed. Its a literal concept that revolves around heat. Please tell me why your idea of a heatless transfer is just as baseful as my idea to base it what the quirk is based off?
High-End has won anyway with the latest vote, and now we wait for a grace period.
There a quirks that can go against scientific laws, however its still based on a world like ours, and includes scientific principles. Only now, there are exceptions. Again, Momo's quirk is pretty much existant and proves my point, a smilar based quirk in Engine works the exact way a car engine would, which requires combustion from the fuel in Iida's energy sources.
The main point is, you cant say, when this is how quirks like Engine operate, that, unless otherwise stated, the only way a quirk is powered is through the users energy. People in MHA still require sustenance unless its based off a quirk, which from food, water whatever, gives them that energy. Therefore, High-Ends quirk and his shoulder jets as a part of his body, require that of a fuel source, and much like the mutant quirk it is, similar to engine, thats most definitely coming from the use of energy. If Horikoshi wanted us to note how the quirk works, he would have told us, but other than that we can make safe assumptions based off what we know about mutant quirks like Shoulder Mounted Jets. Meanwhile, your claim that they're air or water jets is much, much more baseless. Jets produce thermal energy as they burn. What are you assuming now? That the jets use a frictionless power source that creates no heat? Because thats impossible and would be stated
It is the only source. Airplanes dont rely on air or water, and ive already proved why it cant be those sorts of jets. It literally is the only one that makes sense
All energy transfers create heat. Jets require a lot of power, and therefore more burning of fuel is needed. Its a literal concept that revolves around heat. Please tell me why your idea of a heatless transfer is just as baseful as my idea to base it what the quirk is based off?
High-End has won anyway with the latest vote, and now we wait for a grace period.
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> Its not up to the mods to decide, its up to Horikoshi
Not in this wiki, and no, quirks are more magic than science, just because they use some science-related names or ideas doesnt mean the implication of that idea will apply to them.
> and includes scientific principles
Which are ignored whenever wanted and therefore you cant say a power is based on science until it actually proves to do so.
> The main point is, you cant say, when this is how quirks like Engine operate, that, unless otherwise stated, the only way a quirk is powered is through the users energy.
No, you cant say that. I proved that quirks can have energy sources other than combustion, and im not insisting on any definitive answer unlike you. Im going with what the story said while you put your headcanon/interpretation/idea as fact.
Not in this wiki, and no, quirks are more magic than science, just because they use some science-related names or ideas doesnt mean the implication of that idea will apply to them.
> and includes scientific principles
Which are ignored whenever wanted and therefore you cant say a power is based on science until it actually proves to do so.
> The main point is, you cant say, when this is how quirks like Engine operate, that, unless otherwise stated, the only way a quirk is powered is through the users energy.
No, you cant say that. I proved that quirks can have energy sources other than combustion, and im not insisting on any definitive answer unlike you. Im going with what the story said while you put your headcanon/interpretation/idea as fact.
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Quirks aren't magic...and mods cannot decide what quirks are over what the show tells them.
Yes we can...cause magic isn't a thing in MHA. We dont assume magic over science in this verse. Most quirks are literally based off real life things and their compositions, this one being one of them. Are you honestly going to tell me that Creation, or Explosion, are just magic when they have a canon form of how they work to them?
Combustion isnt an energy source, its a process of releasing energy via heat. Which is what jet engines do. Which is what the quirk is based off. When on earth did the story say the quirk relied on an energy source outside of High-End's?
It is you who is saying that High-End instead of an actual existent energy transfer used in jets, is using a completely new type of energy which hasn't been stated or proven. How a jet engine works isn't a headcanon.
Yes we can...cause magic isn't a thing in MHA. We dont assume magic over science in this verse. Most quirks are literally based off real life things and their compositions, this one being one of them. Are you honestly going to tell me that Creation, or Explosion, are just magic when they have a canon form of how they work to them?
Combustion isnt an energy source, its a process of releasing energy via heat. Which is what jet engines do. Which is what the quirk is based off. When on earth did the story say the quirk relied on an energy source outside of High-End's?
It is you who is saying that High-End instead of an actual existent energy transfer used in jets, is using a completely new type of energy which hasn't been stated or proven. How a jet engine works isn't a headcanon.
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i agre with jynx
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- #63
This seems to be a stomp as I've said Todoroki has no means of victory.
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> and mods cannot decide what quirks are over what the show tells them.
Thats the thing, the show isnt telling them anything, i repeated myself severaltimes now, there is no indication that heat is produced from the jets, we dont know if it uses combustion, just because you want them to be combustions doesnt mean they are.
> .cause magic isn't a thing in MHA.
You seriously want to go that way? Of course its not a thing, its however in the very same tier of "superpowers do X because of [this something something reason that is fictional and makes no sense scientifically]", so they can as well just be magic.
> Are you honestly going to tell me that Creation, or Explosion, are just magic when they have a canon form of how they work to them?
Are you seriously gonna tell me that Momo ignoring the laws of mass by creating stuff she certainly didnt have as fat cells isnt magic? or bakugo not getting deaf or others suffering from burns/internal injuriys due to them? (and before you get it wrong again, magic in this context means "not actual science").
> When on earth did the story say the quirk relied on an energy source outside of High-End's?
Im not the one insisting on knowing a answer, you are. Im saying we have to little knowledge to say whatever it is or isnt while you insist on knowing it with reasons that dont work since quirks can be anything with no real rule on how they work or what their limitations are.
> It is you who is saying that High-End instead of an actual existent energy transfer used in jets
I will completly stop arguing if you can prove me where it was stated he was actually using actual energy transfer to use his jets, and no, your own opinion on the look of the energy coming from the jets is not evidence.
Sorry but at this point im feeling like im talking to a wall.
Not going to entertain this topic anymore.
Thats the thing, the show isnt telling them anything, i repeated myself severaltimes now, there is no indication that heat is produced from the jets, we dont know if it uses combustion, just because you want them to be combustions doesnt mean they are.
> .cause magic isn't a thing in MHA.
You seriously want to go that way? Of course its not a thing, its however in the very same tier of "superpowers do X because of [this something something reason that is fictional and makes no sense scientifically]", so they can as well just be magic.
> Are you honestly going to tell me that Creation, or Explosion, are just magic when they have a canon form of how they work to them?
Are you seriously gonna tell me that Momo ignoring the laws of mass by creating stuff she certainly didnt have as fat cells isnt magic? or bakugo not getting deaf or others suffering from burns/internal injuriys due to them? (and before you get it wrong again, magic in this context means "not actual science").
> When on earth did the story say the quirk relied on an energy source outside of High-End's?
Im not the one insisting on knowing a answer, you are. Im saying we have to little knowledge to say whatever it is or isnt while you insist on knowing it with reasons that dont work since quirks can be anything with no real rule on how they work or what their limitations are.
> It is you who is saying that High-End instead of an actual existent energy transfer used in jets
I will completly stop arguing if you can prove me where it was stated he was actually using actual energy transfer to use his jets, and no, your own opinion on the look of the energy coming from the jets is not evidence.
Sorry but at this point im feeling like im talking to a wall.
Not going to entertain this topic anymore.
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- #66
Jinx I'll ask again what's Todoroki's win con how could he incap High End?
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