High 6-B Ho-Oh and Lugia???

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

If this upgrade happens, we'll have lots of Fairy Tail High 6-B characters vs Legendaries High 6-B spams.

By the way, how many Teratons result this feat?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

isn't Ash's Pikachu stronger than most normal Pikachu?

This. Ash's Pikachu is in a completely different ballpark than other Pikachu, wild or trained. Heck, Pikachu in this movie was able to obtain a moveset early that he wouldn't get until at least Gen 3-4.

Plus, Ho-Oh's interest in Pikachu would make it some steps above what other 3rd-fully evolved non-legendaries could do.

 

[Dark649]

We have literraly a rule that prevents trainers from scaling to the Legendaries and Ash is not an exception since his Pikachu ranges from being nearly overwhelmed by weak Pokémon in S/M and other occasions to oneshotting 4-B Lusamine with Z-Power and hurting 2-B Arceus.

 

[Dark649]

Scaling Pikachu to High 6-B because Ho-oh is interested in him could be the same as making him 4-B from the Sun/Moon series because by the end he will fight evenly with Silvally and the Tapu's are interested in him.

 

[TriforcePower1]

I mean, scaling in Pokémon is always inconsistent, so scaling Pikachu from the legendaries was just wrong, but if he has his own feat, then...

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Those cases are pretty false in-themselves though (Arceus especially) and they have no baring on this movie. In fact, Pikachu being that strong is literally apart of the movies plot.

Ho-Oh only gives one of it's Rainbow Wings to trainers who's pokemon have strength worthy enough to make them The Rainbow Hero so that they could use the Wing to travel to Mount Tensei and specifically battle Ho-Oh. That's the point of being given the Rainbow Wing in the 1st place. Why would a legendary pokemon give so much, let alone any, time of day to take particular interest in fodders if they weren't strong enough for Ho-Oh to seem them as worthy to battle? Obviously, no one is saying Pikachu is stronger than or even equal to Ho-Oh. And it would be wrong to say so. But Pikachu here would have to be strong enough to have Ho-Oh at least see it as different from among any other normal pokemon for Ash to be given a Rainbow Wing.

Not to mention, the Ash and Pikachu here in this movie are completely different from the main anime series, so whatever inconsistency outliers that happen to them in the anime do not affect them in this movie.

 

[Dark649]

Referring into giving an another continuity key after seeing that most continuities scaling are threated as one composite makes me think to split them, or we will end up with scaling this to Towards End Game [Since it happens after defeating Archer and before facing Clair] Trainers because in Heart Gold/Soul Silver the player is deemed worthy to receive a Rainbow Wing by the Radio Director and subsequently scaling Eight Gym Leaders, Elite 4, Champions to above the Pikachu feat since i don't believe that his Pikachu can oneshot champions, we only heard Ash saying that his Pikachu can potentially defeat Soren Inceneriroar, who is likely as strong as Koga or Sabrina strongest Pokémon up to before that event.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Im pretty sure the Rainbow Wing's purpose in the movie differs from the games but if you meant like say make separate pages, id agree to a I Choose You Pikachu specific page.

 

[Dark649]

The reason i said before that it makes me think to split the continuities is because the Pokémon profiles are composite of stuff from the Anime, Manga, Movies and Specials like Generations from Howard posting in the past an interview that all continuities have the same powerscaling or something, making this continuity as its own kinda defies that and i repeat i do not think that Pikachu is vastly above champions.

 

[Executor_N0]

I believe that the biggest reason for this is not to "climb Pikachu to Ho-oh" but rather because Pikachu definitely has a feat of that level in the movie, and this feat of this Pikachu (which should not escalate arbitrarily to any other Pokemon) is consistent with which he did (defeated Marshadow who was feeding on the power that created the storm and can fight against Ho-oh, even clearly losing in the end).


Pikachu Thunberbolt

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'll implement the changes to the Legendaries if that's okay. We can continue discussing the case of Pikachu though.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yeah Pikachu needs to be discussed more, but the legendaries are fine.

Is everyone also fine with a Likely Higher for them too? IDK if 6-A flat out would be okay but this feat is ridiculously casual for Ho-Oh, so it's possible. Either one im okay with though.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Oh yeah, more legendaries that would scale from this:

-Meloetta

-Thunderous

-Tornadus

-Landorus

-Victini

-Volcanion

-Diancie

That should be it. But yeah this is a lot of tier 6 legendaries.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I do agree with the potential to have Ash Pikachu have a separate profile from the regular canon . There is a Pikachu that overwhelms Heatran in the movies ... But it's a well-trained one firstly, and secondly it's Damos', who has the most powerful empathic boosting/hax in the Pokemon series. The one who boosted the Pokemon to be able to harm Arceus... Yeah... That one.

(Low-key need to one day make a profile for Sheena and Damos)

But regardless , it isn't abnormal that a unbelievably well-trained pokemon can fight with Legendaries in the Pokemon series [Manga,Anime,Game, and Movies] ... Especially in the movies .

Would you like me to list every moment of such occurences to help out here ?

 

[Phoenix821]

Better question is how may weren't Ash

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Bump

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Bump

 

[LordGriffin1000]

So what's going on with Ash's Pikachu.

 

[Executor_N0]

The calc will be downgraded, I used the olg height of 13km for the clouds. But now we'll use values of 9~10km. So there will be a small downgrade.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

What was wrong with 13 km? And will it still be High 6-B or is the downgrade big enough to go under-tier?

 

[Executor_N0]

13 km isn't the thickness of a cloud, but the distance from the top of a cloud and the surface of the earth. The thickness of the cloud itself is of about 8km ~ 11.8 km

 

[Executor_N0]

Here. The Thunderbolt low-end is only 6-B, but the others are still High 6-B.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Ah okay, then we should still be fine.

For Pikachu, if the high end is still an issue for some would the low end 6-B work for Pikachu instead? I still think the high end could be used but either one would still be a good upgrade and with Pikachu already being High 6-C, the low end doesn't really look like an outlier at all.

And neither the low or high ends for Ashs Pikachu scale to any other pokemon me thinks.

 

[Bobsican]

So basically Ash´s Pikachu is getting another key?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Idk but i'd be fine with that option to.

A separate key for Pikachu can work.

 

[Bobsican]

If this happens, I´ll finally be able to make Pikachu Vs. Cole again

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

You may need another thread for Pikachu...considering the topic at hand and the controversy that's behind scaling Pokemon that are not legendaries that high...

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

You may need another thread for Pikachu...considering the topic at hand and the controversy that's behind scaling Pokemon that are not legendaries that high...

Not a bad idea, would be better to get the Legendaries out of the way.

So is Cal gonna be the one to update the pages?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

BTW, there's something interesting I remembered from the movie regarding the Rainbow Wing.

When Ash was "killed" near the end, he was transported to an alternate world (debatably the afterlife) and because of that, the Rainbow Wing vanished. But Ash's disappearance left behind some kind of portal between the worlds that allowed him to come back (and yes, it's a real portal as Pikachu physically entered it). Once coming back, the Rainbow Wing was revived.

What would anyone classify this?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@ProfessorKukui

Not sure what that is.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Something like Ash sustaining the "life" of the Wing is the only thing I can think of.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Since the wing was given to Ash by Ho-Oh in the 1st place, would that mean Ho-Oh can use some type of soul manipulation to tie Ash's soul together with the Rainbow Wing? It would make sense since:

-The wing vanished when Ash "died" and came back only when Ash did

-The wing can become corrupted when it touches someone with an evil heart.

-Ho-Oh having life-related powers isn't strange since it revived 3 dead pokemon and reshaped them into the Beast trio.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Bump

 

[Bobsican]

Well, it´s likely that it works that way, as to ressurect what became Raikou, Entei and Suicune, it should have been able to recall their souls to do so.

 

[Bobsican]

By the way:

Shouldn´t Pikachu´s 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt be 4-B? After all:

"10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt: A Z-Move, so far only seen once, when Ash's Electrium-Z temporarily turned into Pikashium-Z. Pikachu jumps up in the air (after a small routine) and fires many powerful multicolored bolts of electricity at the target. This move was strong enough to one-shot Merged Lusamine."

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Another thread is for that so you should take it there but nah it's an outlier.

 

[Bobsican]

Where?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Sounds like a form of Life Manipulation to me, not sure about Soul Manipulation but who knows.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

So are we gonna upgrade the Legendaries at least now?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I thought they were already upgraded but only Lugia and Ho-Oh have been.

Don't see why the others haven't been yet, probably no one's gotten around to it.