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High 6-A Black Clover Upgrade

Ayo. Another Black Clover upgrade thread. Made this in tandem and discussion with @CloverDragon03, so thanks for the help! Using a slightly similar scaling chain from the Dark Triad's devil percentages and pairing it with power progression from the anime-canon, Black Clover can be upgraded 4x stronger than it currently is.

The basis of the scaling starts with the 5% Spade Captain, who actually scales above Zagred. This scaling him coming from being able to damage Post-TS Base Asta, who should also scale above Zagred. In the Mid-Timeskip, Base Asta is able to fight the Earth Guardian Sarado, and split her Earth magic with his regular Demon-Slayer Sword. Sarado was already implied to scale to Zagred in the Pre-TS. As Lolopechka said, Stage 1 could keep up with a devil (referring to pre-TS Vanica who scales above Zagred). Which means Sarado who is Stage 0, would be even closer in power bare minimum. Furthermore, she scales above the likes of Mid-TS Charlotte when she first arrived in the Heart Kingdom. As Sarado is able to easily fight Charlotte and Mimosa at the same time, despite holding back on the trainees.

Mid-TS Charlotte scales above Charla, as she was able to restrain and fight Yami in the Captain's royale. This Yami was even stronger than he was in the elf arc. So the only way for her to be this strong is if she got at least as strong as Charla, which it's implied here. It's already accepted here that Charla scales to Zagred for being able to fight Yami who could damage Zagred.

This gives us this scaling chain: Charla < Mid-TS Charlotte < Sarado < Mid-TS Asta

This also means that Post-TS Base Asta >= Zagred. And the 5% Spade Captain was able to damage Asta with his poison magic. Even though it's poison, it still would scale above Base Asta in AP for being able to bypass his anti-mana skin, which he learned in the anime-canon, and is an anti-magic equivalent to mana skin. Poison magic has also been shown to already have AP in the BC verse, as Gordon can damage long-dead zombies with his poison magic. Or defeat magically-constructed earth golem's with a mass of poison. The spell itself is classified as Stage 0, again a rank of spell that would have the magical power to damage Zagred.

The Spade Captain only has 5% devil power gifted from the Triad. The 50% Disciples have 50%, making them 10x stronger. Giving us this scaling chain:
5% Spade Captain 1.3 Teratons
50% Disciple 13 Teratons
Base Triad 13 Teratons
50% Triad 565 Teratons
100% Triad 1.3 Petatons
DU Asta & Naalith 2.6 Petatons
Half-Manifested Lucifero/TDU Asta 5.2 Petatons
Complete Megicula 7.8 Petatons
Complete Lucifero 10.4 Petatons

Note: Magna scales as 1/500 100% Dante power. Magna's scaling has been the root of much of the post-TS scaling for characters because of this. In a previous thread, Magna was scaled to half Zagred's power for surpassing Black Asta in the mid-TS. But Magna was stated to have gotten a lot stronger since then, thus he upscales from this as well. Magna is twice as strong as Zagred, or 2.6 Teratons.

Note 2: It seems one of the holdups for this post is people arguing that Vanica is that some people believe Vanica was using devil power, and wasn't in her base when she one-shot the 50% Disciple. Because of black specks around her character. But this is not nearly enough evidence to claim Vanica used devil power. As there are various characters WITHOUT devil power who have been shown to have black specks around their body: Yami, Rhya/Mereo, Mars/Fana, Fanzell, Base Vetto, Mikhael Caesar and many more. Of further note, Dante after losing all of his magic power and losing his connection to Lucifero still shows these black specks of supposed devil mana. So black specks are not at all reliable when it comes to determining devil power usage. These are what would count: Glowing eyes, Black horns, tails, wings, or black veins. Vanica's eyes glow and she gets a black vein in her neck, but this isn't until after she one-shots the disciples. Furthermore, even if these black specks were a reliable tell of devil power, there is no evidence that it's hers. She is standing in front of the disciple that she one-shot, and this it could very well be his black specks she's walking through. Black specks are very common across the manga as debris. And Vanica had just flexed her magical aura in the area, which means it very well could be debris around her and not devil power. Black energy CAN be a determiner of devil power usage. But these are far more blatantly expressed than what's around Vanica in the discussed panel. Like with the disciples we see they have tendrils of black energy that also creates dense orb-like energy far desner than the black specks. Another sign can be clothes being stained black like Zenon's fur.
 
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I want to wait for other people's thoughts just in case, but I will add that we'd basically need to make a middle of timeskip key for Magna if this goes through
 
I don't think this is the case, there is no proof that the Dark Disciples have linear scaling in their power like the Dark Triad, especially because we don't know their base strength without devil power. They may have 10 times more devil power than Spade Captains but if 5% Devil power only gave 20% total increase in total magical power than the DDs would just have 200% buff and not a full 10X increase.
 
I am neutral, I think this is abusing a bit from the anime canon episodes and Magna being stronger than Zagred by himself looks excesive by my point of view, because then Magna is stronger than Julius, Licht and Lumiere, when his character is being "weak" but being clever and winning by tactics or wild cards
 
I am neutral, I think this is abusing a bit from the anime canon episodes and Magna being stronger than Zagred by himself looks excesive by my point of view, because then Magna is stronger than Julius, Licht and Lumiere, when his character is being "weak" but being clever and winning by tactics or wild cards
Agree, this feels like abusing the Powerscalling method to inflate values. IMO story relevancy should take priority over scaling, especially on these occasions where we need to convoluted scaling chains to explain the scaling.
 
My problem is assuming that base triad : 1% devil power there is quite frankly no proof of that and we have seen people with lower porcentages of devil power ( like the 5% spade captain ) looking completely human just like the base triad , also for what is worth the anime adds extra dialogue which implies that base zenon is at 40% devil power
 
I don't think this is the case, there is no proof that the Dark Disciples have linear scaling in their power like the Dark Triad, especially because we don't know their base strength without devil power. They may have 10 times more devil power than Spade Captains but if 5% Devil power only gave 20% total increase in total magical power than the DDs would just have 200% buff and not a full 10X increase.
It's already been accepted that Magic power and devil percentages scale linearly. 50% Dark Disciples are Stage 0 in base.
 
I am neutral, I think this is abusing a bit from the anime canon episodes and Magna being stronger than Zagred by himself looks excesive by my point of view, because then Magna is stronger than Julius, Licht and Lumiere, when his character is being "weak" but being clever and winning by tactics or wild cards
I see. But many people have surpassed Julius, Licht, and Lumiere so there is no issue. The whole point of the timeskip was so that everyone could get strong enough to fight a devil that was stronger than Zagred and who was getting stronger in the meantime. So it is narratively supported. I don't see how this is anime canon abuse when it is canon material.

In the past, Magna went from being weaker than Base Vetto, to far stronger than Third Eye Vetto by scaling to Rufel. This was in a lesser timeframe with not nearly as big as a motivation for everyone to get stronger.

Also, Zagred is fodder in verse now. So this wouldn't actually change much about CURRENT Magna's schtick.
 
My problem is assuming that base triad : 1% devil power there is quite frankly no proof of that and we have seen people with lower porcentages of devil power ( like the 5% spade captain ) looking completely human just like the base triad , also for what is worth the anime adds extra dialogue which implies that base zenon is at 40% devil power
The Non-Triad using devil powers in spade are different. Dark Triad are getting power straight from a devil. Spade Captain and dark disciples are getting power from the dark triad. So it would still scale linearly, as it's already accepted on this page. This is why 5% Spade captain looks "Human" to you. Despite damaging Post-TS Base Asta.
 
Agree, this feels like abusing the Powerscalling method to inflate values. IMO story relevancy should take priority over scaling, especially on these occasions where we need to convoluted scaling chains to explain the scaling.
Going by pure story relevancy...

Spade captain is stage 0. The story relevancy of Stage 0 is that they can fight against devils stronger than Zagred well, since Stage 1s can keep up. You guys are going to need to add a lot more how this breaks a narrative.
 
Also, Zagred is fodder in verse now
The only fodder is Heath Grice 🙃

For your reasons is why I am neutral, because I know some people like Luck became stronger than the Wizards kings, but Luck has an elf power up (theory about him being Charlotte´s little brother, watching you Tabata), runes power up and ultimate magic power up, with all this training is not absurd for him to surpass everyone, but poor Magna had 0 of this and somehow now he is stronger than Zagred with pure basic training, and if I remember this correctly, his training was more focused in creating the uber op chain magic than improving his magic power
 
The Non-Triad using devil powers in spade are different. Dark Triad are getting power straight from a devil. Spade Captain and dark disciples are getting power from the dark triad. So it would still scale linearly, as it's already accepted on this page. This is why 5% Spade captain looks "Human" to you. Despite damaging Post-TS Base Asta.
Sooo.. still no proof that base triad = 1 % devil power
 
The only fodder is Heath Grice 🙃

For your reasons is why I am neutral, because I know some people like Luck became stronger than the Wizards kings, but Luck has an elf power up (theory about him being Charlotte´s little brother, watching you Tabata), runes power up and ultimate magic power up, with all this training is not absurd for him to surpass everyone, but poor Magna had 0 of this and somehow now he is stronger than Zagred with pure basic training, and if I remember this correctly, his training was more focused in creating the uber op chain magic than improving his magic power
I see your point. But, I mean Mimosa was even able to stalemate a 50% disicple thus putting her above Licht, Lumiere.

And Magna surpassed black form Asta training at the volcano, and got way stronger since then.
 
Yeah I’m gonna have to disagree with this. Zagred isn’t just a normal devil he’s a high-ranking one. And even the mid-ranking devils are shown to be unimpressed by the power of True Magic used by the Heart Kingdom group which consists of Stage 1s and Stage 0s. So it’s made pretty clear that Stage 1s being able to fight devils is more likely referred to them being able to fight low-ranking devils as even Zenon before gaining devil powers is capable of defeating one with a sneak attack. Mid-ranking and above requires powers like Ultimate Magic to defeat.
You’d be wrong.

For 1, the Heart Squad already scaled to and above 50% Disicples who themselves scaled above Zagred.

The mid-rankers we’re never unimpressed. they just never gave a reaction to their power.

The gaps in devil ranks is shown to be huge as Lilith and Naamah at supreme are drastically above High-Rank Zagred. And the Mid-Rankers are stated to be a lot stronger than low-rankers.

Mid-rankers << Zagred. So no.

Using a pre-devil contract bargain Zenon has no relevance to the point.
 
No proof of that

No correlation
also devil porcentages are linear so 51% is only 2% stronger than 50% , there is not a massive gap betwenn 50% to 51%
Dante gets 2x stronger from 50%-100%. This is already accepted.

This means 100% Dante is 100x stronger than 1% Dante.

So you can multiply 100x on top of anything base Dante scales too.
 
…. Base Dante, would be weaker than 1% devil power Dante. And if 1% Dante > Base Dante. Then 100% Dante would be over 100x Base Dante.
The " base " dark triad are always using some porcentage of devil power because of multiple panels of negative mana leaking from then and being able to use the devils magic
You've gotta prove that this is equal or less than 1%
 
The " base " dark triad are always using some porcentage of devil power because of multiple panels of negative mana leaking from then and being able to use the devils magic
You've gotta prove that this is equal or less than 1%
That isn’t the case. Negative mana can be sensed without being used. Like Asta’s devil power could be sensed by Damnatio even when Asta was in base and his swords were contained his grimoire. We also know that when the triad use their devil powers their eyes glow. I can’t provide the link to scans rn because I’m doing this on my phone rn. But Vanica one shots the disicple, her eyes are normal. But when fighting Noelle, her eye glow. It’s the end of 251. Which means she wasn’t using devil power until she fought Noelle.
 
The " base " dark triad are always using some porcentage of devil power because of multiple panels of negative mana leaking from then and being able to use the devils magic
You've gotta prove that this is equal or less than 1%
To be honest, Dante is the only one that uses his devil magic without being at 50% or more. The other two only use them when they are at least at 50%
 
That isn’t the case. Negative mana can be sensed without being used. Like Asta’s devil power could be sensed by Damnatio even when Asta was in base and his swords were contained his grimoire. We also know that when the triad use their devil powers their eyes glow. I can’t provide the link to scans rn because I’m doing this on my phone rn. But Vanica one shots the disicple, her eyes are normal. But when fighting Noelle, her eye glow. It’s the end of 251. Which means she wasn’t using devil power until she fought Noelle.
They are using devil magic and leaking negative mana on screen , lets not
 
I don't think this is the case, there is no proof that the Dark Disciples have linear scaling in their power like the Dark Triad
Their power is sourced from the triad.
know their base strength without devil power
Stage 0
if 5% Devil power only gave 20% total increase in total magical power than the DDs would just have 200% buff and not a full 10X increase.
"If" is speculation without evidence, and can be dismissed without evidence.
I am neutral, I think this is abusing a bit from the anime canon episodes and Magna being stronger than Zagred by himself looks excesive by my point of view,
Incredulity is not an argument
Agree, this feels like abusing the Powerscalling method to inflate values.
Not an argument
IMO story relevancy should take priority over scaling,
This is literally a website for scaling and indexing character stats. Also, you can't quantify story relevancy.
My problem is assuming that base triad : 1% devil power there is quite frankly no proof of that and we have seen people with lower porcentages of devil power ( like the 5% spade captain ) looking completely human just like the base triad
Those captains actually have particles of negative mana floating around them. This is not the case when Vanica one taps a 50% Disciples.
also for what is worth the anime adds extra dialogue which implies that base zenon is at 40% devil power
It states that Zenon was capable of using 40% when invading the diamond kingdom.
So it’s made pretty clear that Stage 1s being able to fight devils is more likely referred to them being able to fight low-ranking devils
This is not the case at all. The entire context of the conversation to a devil above Zagred.
They are using devil magic and leaking negative mana on screen , lets not
Vanica did not use curse magic against the 50% disciple.
 
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