High 3A Saitama (Please read the post before making a decision)

[Cryo123]

In OPM chapter 169, Genos brings up 3 theories as to how Saitama traveled back in time.

One of them is about Saitama "Surpassing the speed of light" and going "beyond the event horizon". This hypothesis is "based on the theory of relativity".

This means that:

1. Saitama surpassed the Speed Of Light. (Also obvious from viewing near Sol attacks as a joke)
2. The general theory of relativity, which prevents objects from moving FTL is a known phenomenon recognized by the characters of this universe.

As you all know, going FTL according to the Theory of Relativity would require infinite energy, or High 3A. I propose a "possibly" or "likely" rating, as Genos brings up the possibility that the laws of physics just might not apply to him. On the other hand, generating antimatter is caused by coliding particles at high speeds, (the hadron collider can make barely any moving at 99.9999991% Sol), so Saitama generating a bunch of antiparticles to go back in time is further evidence that not only is he FTL, normal physics apply.

And before someone says "it's a hypothesis" by Genos, the fact that he's making the hypothesis at all means the Theory of Relativity exists in this universe, otherwise he would never have brought it up, meaning the same points still apply.

This CRT is not for determining what to do about currently Sol-FTL characters, it's just for setting the ground work by putting Saitama as High 3A. I would think Cosmic Fear Mode Garou still scales.

Agree:

Disagree:

 

[Maitreya12]

More substantial evidence would need to be required for an upgrade as big as High 3A for Saitama to go through.

Certainly more than simply Genos’ statement which is clearly and has been susceptible to bias.

 

[Cryo123]

More substantial evidence would need to be required for an upgrade as big as High 3A for Saitama to go through.

Certainly more than simply Genos’ statement which is clearly and has been susceptible to bias.

Him saying the Theory of Relativity exists is not even possible to affect with bias.

 

[AnimesFreak2]

More substantial evidence would need to be required for an upgrade as big as High 3A for Saitama to go through.

Certainly more than simply Genos’ statement which is clearly and has been susceptible to bias.

^This

There isn't enough info to prove this just yet

Furthermore Saitama having a graph depict his power level as finite during his battle with Cosmic Garou further helps debunk this

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

Following. I'm not making any decisions right now, but could you post scans from that chapter?

 

[Pedr0_Jones]

Platinum Sperm is also FTL

So he is High 3-A as well

With this, FTL would be almost impossible for the verse btw

 

[Cryo123]

^This

There isn't enough info to prove this just yet

Furthermore Saitama having a graph depict his power level as finite during his battle with Cosmic Garou further helps debunk this

Infinite layers of infinity are accepted on this site. The whole point of Low 2C is destroying a finite amount of infinite universes.

 

[Cryo123]

Platinum Sperm is also FTL

So he is High 3-A as well

With this, FTL would be almost impossible for the verse btw

Yeah. That's why this thread isn't about that rn. We'd have to downgrade them all later.

 

[thetechmaster36]

Yeeeah no.

As you all know, going FTL according to the Theory of Relativity would require infinite energy, or High 3A. I propose a "possibly" or "likely" rating, as Genos brings up the possibility that the laws of physics just might not apply to him.

By this logic, we would be granting Post-Centipede Garou and Platinum Sperm High 3-A because they were able to go FTL in their fight.

Besides that, the "laws of physics" in this series don't mean shit when we have characters blowing giant holes in planets by sneezing, creating hyperspace portals, and using telekinetic powers.

 

[Cryo123]

Yeeeah no.

By this logic, we would be granting Post-Centipede Garou and Platinum Sperm High 3-A because they were able to go FTL in their fight.

Besides that, the "laws of physics" in this series don't mean shit when we have characters blowing giant holes in planets by sneezing, creating hyperspace portals, and using telekinetic powers.

You're missing the point entirely.

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Infinite layers of infinity are accepted on this site. The whole point of Low 2C is destroying a finite amount of infinite universes.

Except the issue is Saitama's power was never Infinite in the first place

He simply has Infinite growth for potential

So you can't stack infinity on infinity here cause the base infinity is nonexistent......as Saitama's power is finite

 

[Cryo123]

Except the issue is Saitama's power was never Infinite in the first place

He simply has Infinite growth for potential

So you can't stack infinity on infinity here cause the base infinity is nonexistent......as Saitama's power is finite

...

Your argument is that his power is finite so it can't be infinite? That's not an argument.

 

[Cryo123]

Following. I'm not making any decisions right now, but could you post scans from that chapter?

I only have access to it on c*bar* moe and I'm pretty sure we're not allowed to use it on this site anymore.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

The fact that the theory of relativity exists in-universe in the first place means that it's a possibility, albeit small
I would like to lay out the fact that nobody here should be using the "appeal to reality" stuff as an argument, since these possible are in-universe mechanics, not just fiction being inconsistent with irl. I am not voting yet, but if you are going to disagree, don't do it for thoughtless reasons.

Except the issue is Saitama's power was never Infinite in the first place

He simply has Infinite growth for potential

So you can't stack infinity on infinity here cause the base infinity is nonexistent......as Saitama's power is finite

"It's not infinite therefore it's not infinite" is not a proper counterargument. This doesn't actually mean anything.
If you are going to counter evidence with counter-evidence than it actually has to be counterevidence in the first place, not just you saying it's true. Either that or, you have to explain why the OP's reasoning isn't evidence. But this is the kind of post that will not fly regardless of where you stand.

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

Infinite layers of infinity are accepted on this site. The whole point of Low 2C is destroying a finite amount of infinite universes.

So what would this mean the graph is depicting?

 

[Cryo123]

So what would this mean the graph is depicting?

Finite numbers of infinity.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Finite numbers of infinity.

I believe what you're looking for is "finite values on a 4d scale" or something like that

 

[AnimesFreak2]

...

Your argument is that his power is finite so it can't be infinite? That's not an argument.

Boy what?

That quite literally what it means

Finite=/=Infinity

Aside from potential growth Saitama has never shown infinite anything

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

Finite numbers of infinity.

If it's levels of infinity, wouldn't that result in Saitama and Garou ending up at "At Least 2-C"?

 

[Cryo123]

Boy what?

That quite literally what it means

What I mean is you're making the assertion "Saitama's power is finite because it's finite". That's not an argument, that's the circular reasoning fallacy.

 

[Cryo123]

If it's levels of infinity, wouldn't that result in Saitama and Garou ending up at "At Least 2-C"?

Well we don't really count the graph for an actual multiplier. All I'm saying is that the graph 100% does not prove Saitama can't be High 3A.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Boy what?

That quite literally what it means

Finite=/=Infinity

Aside from potential growth Saitama has never shown infinite anything

the point is that your counterargument to "it is infinite" is essentially "it isn't" so you're either gonna have to provide evidence, or explain why the OP's evidence is wrong
what you did is an example of you thinking you're right just because you said so, which isn't really how it works

 

[ZillertheBucko]

If it's levels of infinity, wouldn't that result in Saitama and Garou ending up at "At Least 2-C"?

correction: infinite value * 58 =/= 2-C

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Well we don't really count the graph for an actual multiplier. All I'm saying is that the graph 100% does not prove Saitama can't be High 3A.

the point is that your counterargument to "it is infinite" is essentially "it isn't" so you're either gonna have to provide evidence, or explain why the OP's evidence is wrong
what you did is an example of you thinking you're right just because you said so, which isn't really how it works

Except I already debunked his point with the graph presented during the Garou fight

He tried countering it by saying there can be sets of infinity but he still never proved why Saitama's power was Infinite in the first place

So you may be saying I am not making sense by saying "Saitama's power is finite cause it's finite"


But he's saying "Saitama's power is Infinite cause it's Infinite"


Quite hypocritical

 

[Cryo123]

He tried countering it by saying there can be sets of infinity but he still never proved why Saitama's power was Infinite in the first place

The entire CRT shows that

A. Saitama went FTL.

B. The theory of relativity is canon to the OPM verse

C. Going FTL in the Theory of Relativity is High 3A

 

[Cryo123]

correction: infinite value * 58 =/= 2-C

Looking at the tiering system, I got it wrong. A finite number of infinite universes is still High 3A.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Except I already debunked his point with the graph presented during the Garou fight

He tried countering it by saying there can be sets of infinity but he still never proved why Saitama's power was Infinite in the first place

So you may be saying I am not making sense by saying "Saitama's power is finite cause it's finite"


But he's saying "Saitama's power is Infinite cause it's Infinite"


Quite hypocritical

He's saying it's infinite because of the laws of relatively and the fact that the theory is confirmed to exist in the opm universe.
You're saying it's finite because it's finite.
The graph doesn't show anything except that his power was multiplied (by an unquantifiable amount according to the wiki) which means nothing, since you can multiply infinite values and they will still be infinite, just higher into high 3-A
I haven't even taken my side yet as I said, but do not bring garbage non-arguments to the table

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

Ah, right, he said countable. So, a few more questions:

1. How do we know the graph is depicting countable levels of infinity?
2. Why would the Theory of Relativity apply to Platinum Sperm, Flashy Flash, and Blast as well? Those characters move FTL according to accepted calcs, meaning they should also be High 3-A. While I know you said that it's not for determining the rating of other FTL characters, there's literally no way to do that unless you cherrypick who the Theory of Relativity applies to.
3. Do we just write off the universe not getting nuked by High 3-A attacks as PIS or could this also be interpreted as an anti-feat?
4. Is there any other supporting evidence aside from the graph for the proposed rating?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

This doesn't even work because applying real life physics is how you get saitama to high 3-A using this logic however FTL is completely impossible so it's just unquantifiable to AP.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Iirc, there also was a web page Canon afaik which rated Saitama's strength as infinity

Anyway, neutral for now

 

[Cryo123]

How do we know the graph is depicting countable levels of infinity?

We don't. I'm just saying that because the graph has no values, it is impossible to say that the graph dissproves High 3A Saitama.

Why would the Theory of Relativity apply to Platinum Sperm, Flashy Flash, and Blast as well? Those characters move FTL according to accepted calcs, meaning they should also be High 3-A. While I know you said that it's not for determining the rating of other FTL characters, there's literally no way to do that unless you cherrypick who the Theory of Relativity applies to.

This CRT isn't about that. We'll fix that mess up when we get there.

Do we just write off the universe not getting nuked by High 3-A attacks as PIS or could this also be interpreted as an anti-feat?

Usually it's PIS

Is there any other supporting evidence aside from the graph for the proposed rating?

IRL physics that put FTL travel at High 3A are canon to OPM, Saitama is confirmed to be FTL on multiple occasions.

 

[Cryo123]

This doesn't even work because applying real life physics is how you get saitama to high 3-A using this logic however FTL is completely impossible so it's just unquantifiable to AP.

You misunderstand. The Theory of Relativity is 100% confirmed canon to the OPM verse.

Edit: Just re-read your post and it seems I misunderstood. In the Theory of Relativity, mass increases with speed, so when you reach Sol, your mass becomes infinite. This means if you could unleash an infinite amount of energy you could move FTL.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Iirc, there also was a web page Canon afaik which rated Saitama's strength as infinity

サイタマ｜切なすぎる怪人大図鑑｜ONEPUNCHMAN

「サイタマ」強く・・・なりすぎた。切なさ溢れる試し読みと、その生態はこちらから！他の怪人の哀愁も要チェック！

youngjump.jp

Here it is

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Now as for the actual flaws with the crt I can think of
1. The theory of relativity is just that, a theory. While it could be true, that would mean it's only a possibly rating at best.
2. Full power Saitama was shown to not be doing universe busting destruction, although, because blast focused it into a laser, it could have just shot through the universe, and also last in the fight their attacks are not even shown to be making star level damage anymore so it could easily be a case of DC vs AP.
That being said, I do think that logically speaking there is a chance that Saitama has infinite power, which could be argued to have been hinted at with that crack hyperspace scaling, even if that does kinda suck.
I'm neutral but leaning on agreeing, but strictly for a possibly rating. Not that I expect this to have any shot at going through, but I do think this does make sense.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

This doesn't even work because applying real life physics is how you get saitama to high 3-A using this logic however FTL is completely impossible so it's just unquantifiable to AP.

It's only impossible because it requires infinite energy, no?

 

[Cryo123]

1. The theory of relativity is just that, a theory. While it could be true, that would mean it's only a possibly rating at best.

That is why I proposed only a possibly or likely. Although in science getting the title of a theory means it's a pretty reliable and consistently observed phenomenon.

2. Full power Saitama was shown to not be doing universe busting destruction, although, because blast focused it into a laser, it could have just shot through the universe, and also last in the fight their attacks are not even shown to be making star level damage anymore so it could easily be a case of DC vs AP.

Yeah, there's not actually much in terms of anti-feats.

leaning on agreeing, but strictly for a possibly rating. Not that I expect this to have any shot at going through, but I do think this does make sense.

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

We don't. I'm just saying that because the graph has no values, it is impossible to say that the graph disproves High 3A Saitama.

The graph still seems kind of flimsy for evidence on either side given that, tbh.

This CRT isn't about that. We'll fix that mess up when we get there.

That's an Empire State Building-sized can of worms you're opening.

IRL physics that put FTL travel at High 3A are canon to OPM, Saitama is confirmed to be FTL on multiple occasions.

I meant do we have any other instances of characters in OPM following physics like the Theory of Relativity? The only thing I can think of is the Geryuganshoop and Tatsumaki thing.

 

[samlex]

doesn’t This contradict all the ftl characters in the verse with proper calc?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

The biggest threat to this crt is the fact that other sol+ characters having anti feats could also by extension ruin the chances of ftl saitama being high 3-A, but also Saitama is ridiculously above everyone (minus garou) in speed so maybe there's some kind of way he could be an exception
or maybe rela+ downgrades for ftl characters would have to happen

 

[Cryo123]

doesn’t This contradict all the ftl characters in the verse with proper calc?

Yeah, which is why we'd (likely) have to deem FTL calcs outliers and default to our Relativistic-Relativistic+ ratings. But that's not what this CRT is about.

The graph still seems kind of flimsy for evidence on either side given that, tbh.

I'm not using the graph as evidence. I'm just saying that the graph is not evidence against the CRT.

That's an Empire State Building-sized can of worms you're opening.

All in the name of more accurate scaling.

I meant do we have any other instances of characters in OPM following physics like the Theory of Relativity? The only thing I can think of is the Geryuganshoop and Tatsumaki thing.

We don't have any instances where characters canonically go FTL beyond this scenario, so nothing contradicts it really.