High 1-C Fiamma Above God?

[XDragnoir]

After thinking for 5 minutes, i noted Fiamma has at least 4 possibly H1C feats.

Also, please note THIS IS NOT A CRT and i'm not trying to upgrade him, i just want to see everyone's opinion and share my own interpretations of this character.

1- can summon and has control over heaven and it's angels, one being Archangel Michael, which is Fiamma and Curtana's power source, Curtana being able to cut all dimensions, lower or higher, even being able to kill Aiwass in the Pure World, and Fiamma is said to be above Curtana.

2- Baby Lilith used a miracle to distort the path of Coronzon's Flaming Sword, Fiamma, even in his limited form with limited uses to Holy Right, can create miracles, which are distortions to causality.

3- Has all the knowledge of Index, which is enough to make Index a canditate to be a Magic God, and make Corozon fear she could become one.

4- Imagine Breaker isn't enough to negate the Holy Right, but can null Phase Shifts and Gungnir, and to become the One Above God he absorbed IB to perfect his power, reaching a point that the thing being sealed inside IB showed itself to stop him.

He has all of this supporting a H1C tier, but there is a part inside me that think i'm forgetting some important quotes that null this all, but what do you all think?

 

[ReshRech]

I'll comment later. But open a direct point; The feat of having all the knowlegde of Index it isn't enouigh to be comparable with a Magic God, so i think is good to remove this point

 

[Malox1696]

it's plausible

i mean feat are almost there

and by working of the ability as it can recreate any miracle in the bible that means creation of the universe too

he did something similar by changing phase temporarily to haven

but i don't think it's enough and it would not be high 1 c it would be universal

 

[XDragnoir]

I'll comment later. But open a direct point; The feat of having all the knowlegde of Index it isn't enouigh to be comparable with a Magic God, so i think is good to remove this point

Agreed, but, Index herself had her ability to use spells sealed away because the church (i.e Coronzon) feared she could become a Magic God, and Fiamma has all her knowledge and spells.

 

[Inori_Hatsune]

I think low 2c is safest tier for above god fiamma. But I can see possibility for h1c since aleister stated that fiamma plan could be reach what he cant did in OT 22.

 

[Malox1696]

not 1hc tho as he would not have the same control as MGs so let's address the point

1-curtana is an hax and the angel still didn't show the same ability so no for the curtana part, ok for control over haven and it's inhabitant as he can cotrol that phase

2- fiamma of the right are not real miracle they are recreation that's why they get negated by touma (unlike real miracles)

3-index has knowledge TO BECOME a MG not the power and fiamma would never use it in that way (he is a Christian to the core) so moth point

4-imagine breaker can't negate WR it's the opposite actually, and we have many situation where IB was pushed back by power not of high tier (innocentius,lvl 6 shift misaka,etc) and IT showed up cause he cut his arm like always and overpower him , but then IT was overpowered by othinus so it creates contradiction

so in conclusion not 1hc, he might be universal with limited phase power

 

[ReshRech]

I'll comment later. But open a direct point; The feat of having all the knowlegde of Index it isn't enouigh to be comparable with a Magic God, so i think is good to remove this point

Agreed, but, Index herself had her ability to use spells sealed away because the church (i.e Coronzon) feared she could become a Magic God, and Fiamma has all her knowledge and spells.

He has the Knowledge, but he dind't make the ritual to become a Magic God.

 

[XDragnoir]

L2C also doesn't make sense, universal creation wasn't accepted in that thread we tryed to add every christian miracle to his profile.

1- the angel don't need to show that ability since he is the power source, and i don't think Kamachi would say that Fiamma is stronger only in power output, but even if it is, Curtana can kill Aiwass while in the Pure World.

2- his power is said to have not a portion, but the entire power of the miracles he uses, i can't really see how they are even a bit inferior to Lilith's miracle, and remember that magic itself is already causality distortion.


3- yes, she has only the knowledge, i didn't say she has the strength of one, and Fiamma has that same knowledge before becoming LPSaD, wouldn't Coronzon fear him the same way he did with Index herself?

4- he didn't null WR, right, my bad, but he nulled Gungnir anyways. To become LPSaD he made a ritual using IB to perfect the Holy Right, same thing Aleister was going to do to Aiwass, but using Accel and IB, to allow him to destroy all Phases.

Man, he has knowledge powerful enough that becoming a MG is a possibility, he upscales above a miracle with a H1C feat, he is stronger than something that can kill PW Aiwass and he absorbed IB to perfect his power.

 

[XDragnoir]

Agreed, but, Index herself had her ability to use spells sealed away because the church (i.e Coronzon) feared she could become a Magic God, and Fiamma has all her knowledge and spells.
He has the Knowledge, but he dind't make the ritual to become a Magic God.

Yeah, but i'm not arguing he is a MG, i'm talking about possible H1C hax with the Holy Right.

 

[ReshRech]

Like, if only hax in this level i accepet, but Holy Right in the Tier H1C no

 

[XDragnoir]

But, the Holy Right is his main hax, but i'm also not saying he is Othinus tier with it, i'm saying he has enough feats to grant a Possibly H1C at least. Also, i think he never used HR in LPSaD, the light that could turn the planet to dust come from Heaven, not from HR, but i need to read again to confirm it.

 

[XDragnoir]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:XDragnoir/Fiamma?useskin=oasis

Did i profile to show how i think his new profile could be made, only added the important parts, and even if H1C will not be a thing, i added 2 new keys.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

We dont use "Same as before" in the tier section

 

[Malox1696]

not 1hc again, he has no control over dimensions , at max he is universal

and not light comes from his HR but he simply chose the output as he can with his right hand completed

 

[XDragnoir]

Having control over dimensions isn't needed to grant a higher tier.

In the version i read it said something like a light from heaven or something like that.

Also, i put "same as before" because i have seen it in another profile, sorry.

 

[Malox1696]

well in this case yes, cause he is not scalling

 

[Malox1696]

"You should be honored, you mass of flesh. You managed to carry out your purpose in life."
That would settle it.
His third arm was no longer incomplete and it no longer continued to shake awkwardly.
The destruction he could carry out was different from the destruction that could be created by the 103,000 grimoires.
He held the power to save the world.
He held the power at the core of a legend.
He was known as The One Above God.
If it was necessary, he could easily smash the no longer needed adaptor with an overwhelming explosion of light that could turn an entire planet to dust.


where did u find this heaven ligth ?

 

[XDragnoir]

Ahhhh i thought it said "divine explosion of light" but yeah, i was wrong. But, shouldn't the quote also say that he is able to recreate any miracle from Christianity?

 

[XDragnoir]

I will make a CRT to add the things his profile is missing (NPI and causality hax, and the 2 new keys) and i will add this in the CRT as well, do anyone here have anything to support/refute anything here that i should put in the OP when i do it?

 

[Malox1696]

Yes I addressed all the point, the evidence is marginal u can't just do it cause u like it, and he already has the ability to recreate all miracle in the profile

 

[XDragnoir]

So, i think this is a clear "you shouldn't do it", but anyway, i don't care if the feats are accepted as H1C or not, but the other 2 keys are fine, right?

 

[Malox1696]

No why have other 2 key ?

 

[XDragnoir]

Because he has one key that is at same time before and after he acquired Index's Controller, and the control over Gabriel isn't in the profile at all.

 

[Malox1696]

making one before index controller is useless as he has limited use of HR but we don't know the numbers

and for Gabriel he can't do it alone to summon him so again no need for key

 

[XDragnoir]

We don't need to know a number, this only needs to be added in the weakness as a limited but Unknown number of uses.

The third key is for when Gabriel was already summoned, the 3rd key is the one he has Index, Gabriel and the Star of Bethlehem at the same time.

 

[Malox1696]

Then what , do we just assume is a number between 1 and infinite ? Just leave it


I still don't agree he can't create those things himself nor do he always use them, they would fall in optional equipment

Same reason hamzura does not have multiple key for all the power suit he used

 

[XDragnoir]

We can add a note saying the OP should say the number of uses, we have other character who do this in the wiki, like Mage WoD and SCP 3930.

Fiamma used these 3 things in the entire WW3, actually, he used them for more time than LPSaD, and Optional Equips needs their own tiers when they change them, like with The Doctor.

Hamazura still has a bunch of keys for things he used for 1 or 2 volumes afaik.

 

[Malox1696]

if so for the first i still disagree

but the second key could be added if hama has it, but u still need people to accept it

 

[Overlord775]

bump

 

[XDragnoir]

No need to bump this thread, the thread for the CRT is here, and H1C was rejected.